Hey Charlie! {subframe}
 

...I'm really sorry. I just couldn't stop myself!

I promise I was careful.




http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...6&d=1310867559

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...7&d=1310867591


http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...8&d=1310867618


http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...9&d=1310867650

Great set of pics !!
I can see the start of a DIY here !!!

You are going to be done before I get there to help.:rolleyes:

Iam leaving Tuesday after my Dentist appt. at 10am. should be up there Wed. about noon. we are bringing the 240, so that should slow us down a little.

The bushing installer is already in the trunk so I don`t forget it.

Those are some good pictures, very clear. should have had some of Ashly proding you to go faster. :D

Charlie

One more. There are others, but I am not doing a write-up - plenty of those to go around and I don't want the attention. These should give you an idea of a fast, minimal-labor removal.

Feel free to ask questions.

Charlie, thanks for going over that with me. It helped alot. Also, she wasn't around..... thats the only reason I was able to get it done. ; ) Like you said... its just a couple of bolts....



http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1310883895

John, looking at the way you dropped that rear end out is pretty slick. I didn`t think of rolling it out on it`s wheels. I hope you loosened up the lug bolts before hand. we will have to remove the wheels, pull the hub bolt for the axles, then remove the 2 24mm bolts on each trailing Arm. once the bolts are out, then slide it off the axle splines.

So when I get there with the bushing tools, it should be a quick R&R of them.;). looks like I won`t get out of here until 8pm the earliest Tuesday, my wife has to do a last minute baby sittting.

Where is Kurt?

Be Safe.

Charlie

I just saw Kurt today. He saw the subframe and was like: '[O] L [O]'

ha! he's gunna be mad at that picture.

oh right... the subframe. Uh... yeah.... oh. We can get to the axle bolts on the wheel side by prying off the MB logo covers. If that doesn't work... I'll take the wheels off. They are torqued real low.

Its all rainy up here, so there's still plenty to do. I just washed it today, thats it.


I was thinking, instead of pulling the Diff, can't we just yank the axles as we pull the trailing arms?

Remind me to show you the weird movement of my axles... i don't understand why one of them telescopes in such a strange pattern.

Thanks again for the tools.

Rain? Oh yeah, Oregon I forgot about that. Do you ever get summer. :D

Kurt was like a deer cought in the headlights? :stunned:

when he see`s how simple this job is, he will get line for us to do his 240. ;)

Pop off the center cap, and remove the center bolt, 13mm. then removing the wheels will make it much easier to man handle things. we can put the wheels back on to roll it back under.

The axles will slide right out of the arms after the 24mm bolts are removed. shouldn`t have to remove the diff. if you have to replace an axle, then we will have to remove the rear cover to get to the "C" clip.

You have the Homokenitic axles, too bad you don`t have the Annular type. easier to R&R, 6 bolts, drop it and slide it out of the hub. the stub stays in the differential.

Piece of Cake. :D

Charlie

Awwwwwesuuum.

I already drained the diff hoping you would say that. I want to clean it out.... brakekleen??? There was quite a bit of sludge even though I replaced the fluid with Redline less than 8k ago.

Yes, Kurt was in headlights... wearing glasses, ha!

Ok, removing the wheels makes sense. I am game. It will prob be in the same condition when you get here.

Thanks again.... you are theeee man.

yeah. Rub it in, buddy. When I live in Hawaii, guess who's NOT going to be invited. It rains there about once a day.

That's more or less what I did - I also replaced the two easy output seals on the diff when I did my trailing arms and subframe.

Are you planning to paint?

I am too lazy to paint considering the condition. There are a few spots I might touch up due to minor rust and of course where the springs interface.

Did brake cleaner do a good enough job? I am a little concerned about the seal up front.

I was super quick when I cleaned it out - I didn't let it sit at all. Also on a warm day it tends to evaporate quite quickly. The front seal does seem to be a pain to fit. I guess that'll be the one to go.

Even so the amount of muck I got out of the diff has got be worthwhile removing and there is little chance of getting the stuff out of the back of the diff without some sort of pressurised spray effect - so something like brake cleaner has to be the way.

Are you sure you're not going to paint?

It does look nice - here's mine:-

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...pictureid=2280

Sludge? how many miles on that diff? I replaced the one in the 240, had around 310K. changing the oil, had all these pretty sparkles in it. pulled the rear cover, and the 2 Spider gears? the ones on the verticle shaft, were all loose and wobbly. that`s when I up graded from the 3:69 to the 3:58.

You have the 2:88, they are around, just harder to find if you need one.

those 2 side axle seals would be easy to replace with the diff sitting there looking at you, and you have it all apart any way.

the insides of the diff is painted a yellow color as I remember. wouldn`t the brake clean loosen it and cause a possible problem? I know it can wrinkle paint.

Army, that looks good, that is what I did to mine when I had it apart. Used POR after I steam cleaned it and scrubed it down with Marine Clean. sanded and then painted it.

Hawaii? Naa I don`t look good in a grass skirt.:D


Charlie

POR 15 the thing while its out - I did when I had mine out. It doesnt take that long and it guarantees long long long life. Youll never need to worry about *that* part of the car rusting again.

Pulling it out with the wheels is soooo slick. I wish i had done that.

JT20 has wondered off into the wilderness, and shown us a new way. :bowrofl:

Charlie

I am concerned about the pinion seal and using brake cleaner. I think I'll wipe it out with mineral spirits first and make brake cleaner my backup plan. Interesting about the paint, Charlie.

There are just over 200k miles on the diff. When I last replaced the fluid it smelled and looked horrendous!

Are you guys really gunna make me paint this thing. ugh. I'll take another picture and you might change your minds. It appears that Heinrich and Gustav left their signatures on my subframe before it left Stuttgart. Seriously. Theres numbers all over it.

Need to preserve graffiti?

http://www.eastwood.com/ew-diamond-clear-satin-bare-metal-aerosol-11-oz.html

son of a.... There's no way out of it, ehh?

This isn't a great picture but here's one of my diff after cleaning just before I put the cover back on.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...1&d=1281900636

When I swaped in a lower milage 2:88 in the 85 and the 3:58 in the 240, I just wiped then out the best I could then used a rag and Mineral Spirits to wipe out the bottom.

Then added the new oil. you can do a short oil change and then lower the diff and remove the rear cover and wipe it out to see what you have. Iam using Synthetic, they say it is suppose to clean things up.

Charlie

The 2 gears one either end of the rusty shaft, are those the Spider gears? those were loose and wobley on the old 240`s diff before I swaped it out. really had a rumble out of back of the car. and the oil was real sparkley too.

Charlie

I don't know if it those gears are called spider gears and I know it looks rusty - it wasn't - honest gov! I don't know what it was though it didn't come off easily so I left it there.

Yup, those are commonly called spider gears. The other two are usually called drive gears or side gears.

Good one marvelicious - thanks for that.

I come from a 4x4 background. Gears become pretty important when you run tires half again the size of the stockers. ;)

Very slick. Wish I'd thought of that when I did my trailing arm bushings. I'd be especially interested in seeing how it goes back in.. holler if you'd like some help or a beer-toating rubbernecker.

I'd offer to loan you my my bushing installation tool, but it's probably too low tech since it's just some all thread, nuts and washers :)

Patbob, consider yourself invited. Charlie probably wants to do it on Wednesday, but I think I might have work until 6-ish.

absolute latest will be Friday. Send a pm (do you recall meeting around 2008-ish? I think you were using some injection lines for a photo-shoot)

I think if charlie wasn't coming up, thats exactly what I would use. I actually have a similar setup used for the front LCA. Bring it, we'll try it out - never know whats guna happen.

I need to post up pics of all my newly powdercoated rear-end. Now if it would only get a little cooler than 105 outside, I could think about getting all the new bushings back in mine and back in the car. Eagerly awaiting JT & Charlie's posts on this.

-Andrew

105? theres shade under the car.... what are you complaining about!? Its probably a cool 77 degrees under there, with an annoying breeze that blows dirt in your eyes.

Sounds like heaven to me.

I can't believe all you people painted your rear ends... its like a frat party on this thread.

Eh... The powder coating was kind of a treat to myself.

You won't believe how good it looks. I had the subframe, trailing arms, all 4 springs, both sway bars, rear brake dust shields... like I said, I need to post some pics up... but right now I'm working a cantankerous PGSQL database that is performing like crap.

you're right. I won't believe it.............. until you post pictures! lemme guess.... neon pink?

At least, thats what I would do.

:) Nope, it's a very nice "half-gloss black".

It looks like it would've from the factory. Anything full gloss on an undercarriage looks fake and tacky to me. This has a perfect sheen to it.

John, mine on the 85 is painted up all pretty. we are every where john, look over your shoulder, one of us is lurking near by. :D

We will be pulling out of here in about an hour (8pm now) be whipping the horses all night heading your way. :deadhorse:
Pm me your phone#, I have it some where in my pile of stuff, doesn`t seem to be where I thought it should be.:cool:
I`ll be unplugging the computer and bringing it along in a few min. see you when I get there.

Charlie

OK Guys. Where's the details. How is this R&R going?

Well I did make it to Portland from Santa Cruz, finally got out of here at 10:40pm on the 19th, and rolled into Portland at 5:35 the next afternoon. 736 miles. drove all night, stopped in a couple rest stops, fueled about 100 miles from home and that got me 524 miles to Cottage Grove, Or. added 16 gal to my 17 gal tank. cut it lil close.:eek: but got 32.18mpg with the GPS and 32.73 with the spedo. So don`t thumb you noses at these 240d`s, they can hold their own. ;)

I finally got with JT20 on Sunday afternoon. we pulled off the wheels, removed the center Hub axle bolts. used a brass drift to drive the axles out of the hub splines. then removed the 2 24mm trailing Arm bolts, and worked the arms off the Sub Frame, and the axle slips out of the hubs.

Used a razor blade knife to cut off the rubber lip on the trailing Arm bushing. (used my home made Bushing Remover/Installer) It is a 12in long 5/8 all thread, with a 1 1/2 pipe coupler, some nuts and a couple plates.

The old bushing came right out, and using some Spray Silicone, the new one`s went right back in w/o any trouble. cutting off the old rubber lip took more time than installing the bushings.

The 2 Sub frame bushing also went right in w/o any trouble, again using some spray Silicone. The Bushing installer used the 12 in long 5/8 all thread, a plate and some pieces I welded together to push the bushing in.

I`ll post some pictures tomarow when I down load them from the camera. hope I can remember how to post the pictures.:confused:.

When I left, it was not put back together, John had some new axles to slip in the Diff then just a matter of slipping the axle into the Hub and bolting the trailing Arms on. mounting the wheels on and rolling it under the car.

I never thought about leaving the wheels on when droping the Sub Frame., but if you don`t have enough floor jacks, this is one slick way to move it.

Charlie

Due to my horrendous planning, we were not able to finish while Charlie stopped by.

But his glorious tools make made quick work of the bushing installation. In short, they were 'perfect'.


So, I just got the "easy" seals today (as Army would say). Popped them on, cleaned up the new CVJ axles and forced them in there. There sure seem to come out easier...


I guess you guys want pictures, errr sumthin?

The arm bushings I've got done. But the new subframe bushings I am having a bear with. Charlie, any chance I can borrow the tool you use for those? Or I guess you could always drive out to Texas... ;)

Is the plate you used steel? I tried using a piece of 1x4 as my plate, that didn't work out so well. I'm also using a bushing lube instead of silicone to get them in.

Just pics
 

Subframe tight, engine back in.... someday this thing might move without me pushing it. (1/2 horsepower)



http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...5&d=1312526140

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...6&d=1312526166


http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...7&d=1312526209


http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...8&d=1312526234


http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...9&d=1312526265

So you don't need to use a spring compressor with this method? Are there step by step instructions? I want to replace my subframes but I'm still learning this car.

Thats correct. I can't take credit though, many have done something similar.

The basic take-away from this is that you can lift the body off of the subframe and roll it out from underneath. Then work on the subframe.

Yeah, that sounds like something I can do. The basic steps to remove the subframe should be:
1: Disconnect top shock mounts, driveshaft at flexcoupling, brake lines at chassis
2: Remove front subframe bolts, diffmount bolts.
3: Slide it out.

Sound correct?

Obviously this is simplified, devil is in the details and all, but I should be able to handle most of that without question.

Edit: I've read that there are rear subframe mounts, but I can't find them anywhere on my car or in your pictures. Perhaps I was reading about a W124? It appears to me that the rear subframe connection to the chassis is done through the diffmount, correct?

The subframe mounts are in this picture that jt20 posted

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...8&d=1312526234

Fantastic pictures by the way jt20!

I especially like and approve of those nice chunky bits of wood - perfectly suited to this job. Well done.

Are you planning to do your own alignment? (I know you can't adjust anything on the back apart from ride height via the rubber "shims" or if you have those Gucci eccentric trailing arm bushings that fastlane sells but it would be nice to know if the rear wheels are straight in line with the front ones)

Thats pretty much it, other than the exhaust. And when lowering the diff, do it with a controlled action and do not let it fall to the ground - you damage the axles.

Raising the car to that height safely (do as I say, not as I do) is the biggest concern. Use a rope to pull the beast out of the cave, don't fight him on his grounds.


When you hear talk of 'front' subframe and 'rear' subframe bushings: there are models (w126) that have both. The rear subframe (the individual part that we refer to) only has one set of bushings that army pointed out.

126s have guide rod mount bushings. There's no separate front subframe. I haven't been able to get JimmyL excited about the terminology, though :)

Questions about this procedure - can you confirm that you left the calipers on the rotors? Where did you disconnect the park brake cables?

Sixto
87 300D

Thats funny. Where is he?

There have been a few times when I was calling around for these parts and the parts-guy would ask "front or rear?".... Did they mean the LCA?

left the calipers on

park-brake cables disconnected at the lever-arm (actuator) where they meet with the main 'pull-cable' from the cabin. About mid-body near the driveshaft pillow block.

126 front and rear suspension is very similar to 123. The main difference is the guide rods attach to brackets that have two bushings each -

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/atta...e-complete.jpg

A crossmember spans the brackets for no seeming purpose than to splash fluid draining from the torque converter.

124 (and 201 and 140 and...) have a more independent rear subframe that attaches at 4 points. The diff attaches to the subframe, not directly to the chassis -

http://www.w124performance.com/image.../subframe2.jpg

Sixto
87 300D

Ahh, that takes the kink out of my neck!

Is it an improvement for the newer models or just a change?

http://www.w124performance.com/image.../subframe2.jpg

I've been watching this thread since it started.

It is very interesting, very helpful and a lot of fun.

Great job guys. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...ons/icon14.gif