My Experience with an Alternative Refrigerant
 

First I have read just about every thread on this subject, so I know there are folks out there who would never do this. This has been a BRUTAL summer in South Texas and lots of other locales. In 2004, I had my 1985 300SD converted to R134a at my favorite indy shop at that time due to a leak repair and the high price of R12. Well, it never was great at cooling after that, but adequate. This summer, I just could not deal with temps in the car. I was getting at best 55 to 65 degrees at the vent at 100º plus temps. I had started driving my V8 w208 which has very cold air as a daily driver. But I missed my SD. So...about a month ago, after doing tons of reading on the subject, I ordered two cans of "Enviro-Safe R134a Replacement Refrigerant with Dye" after being strongly discouraged by my present indy. He agreed to evacuate the R134 from my system, but told me he wouldn't work on my a/c again due to contamination. So I put the two small cans, 5 or 6 oz, in myself. I got a low pressure reading of about 30 from those two cans. On the way home, I was BLOWN AWAY. Vent temps began plummeting...(at about 95º outside) they fell to 45º on Auto fan speed after about a mile of driving. WOW! It got down to about 40º by the time I was home. Today, at around 11:30 with outside temp around 91º, I had a vent temp of about 35 DEGREES on low fan!!!! I wasn't running around with a vent thermometer when I had R12, but I don't ever remember it EVER being this cold. Maybe I made a mistake doing this, but it's an old car and it will die with me...not sure who'll go first. ONE OTHER THING...I can BARELY tell when the compressor comes on. I mean I push the a/c button and the idle speed barely changes. With R134, I could feel the hit of the compressor coming on. Just wanted to share my experience. Didn't think my old SD could ever have air this cold.

I'll stick with LP gas. :D Just have to fix my leak though!

How did you decide how much to use?

12 oz is 1/4 the R-12 capacity!

Good question...
 

But I don't know the answer. I know little about a/c systems. I remember reading that each can equaled about a pound of R134a, even though the can was only 5 or 6 oz. It took the full amount of both cans and was still near the bottom of the blue zone of a cheap hose gauge. So I may be undercharged. I do plan to get another couple of cans, in case it gets banned.

That's interesting....I'm tempted to use the stop-leak version of this stuff.

It's just propane.

And if you're amazed: http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=468525

it's NOT just propane...
it's propane/butane blend.

I'd not use the stop leak in any refrigeration system...

Dunno VStech, the MSDS for propane and Envir22a and propane are almost identical - down to 1/100 (0.01) for bp and specific gravity.

butane has a lower limit of flammability, higher specific gravity, and a much higher boiling point.

If there is any butane in there it is not enough to have an effect on the mixture than can be accurately measured. Those differences are just as likely to come from the pine scent they add.


EDIT: Just looked at the Duracool MSDS - I think THAT is likely to be a blend of propane and isobutane, based on the parameters listed above - each is intermediate between the MSDS specs for propane and butane.

It's funny though - the blend doesn't really alter the autoignition point (raises it from 873* to 891*) = which seems like the critical number!

I don't see the MSDS.

I saw some guy write down three parameters and a set of values.

If there's a link to the MSDS I'd like to see it.

From my investigations I believe it is a HC blend of propane-butane & some other component. Originally it was a pro/but blend but supposedly the DOT would not approve their 6 oz cans for shipping.

So the reformulated to a less efficient but acceptable to DOT. That's one of the reasons the refrigerant has such unusual and stringent installation procedures.

Cool! Literally. I'd like to know the high side pressures.

High cost of R12?????????????? You mean the $15 a can for R12 as opposed to the almost $10 for R134a???????????

Unbelievable!

MSDS
 

Enviro-safe MSDS: http://www.autorefrigerants.us/ESMSDS.htm

The rest are attached.....

Larry, I just went to AutoZone yesterday, and at least here in San Antonio, a 12oz can of R134a is $14.99 now.

I didn't know that R134a was that high now. I haven't bought any in quite awhile. I'm still working out of a couple of 30 pound cannisters.

I was at a local Farm & Ranch store yesterday and they had a BUNCH of it with a sign indicating $9.95 a can.

Larry...I was referring to R12 Price Back in '03 or '04
 

I don't even know what it costs today. And to everybody...I know this is NOT a solution for everyone. I am not that mechanically inclined. I did not want to pay to re-do my system for R12 again, whatever that entails. I just want to let you guys know how this stuff has worked for me. I waited a while before doing so, in case my compressor blew up or something. BTW...I got two cans of this stuff SHIPPED for around $15 bucks. The results were FAR above my expectations.