How hard is it to change a sleeve in a OM617.92* - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

lietuviai · #1 05-27-2007, 10:35 PM

I looked in the shop manual about re-sleeving and it didn't look too hard but you need to fabricate a tool to do this. Has anyone tried it?
I have the one block with a damaged cylinder and I was thinking of pulling one of the sleeves out of my busted block and replacing the bad sleeve that way.

TheDon · #2 05-27-2007, 10:42 PM

I think it involves a press of the sorts. New sleeves are what.. 30$ each? I'd say if you dont damage the old sleeves and they still have cross hatching go for it

lietuviai · #3 05-27-2007, 10:47 PM

The tool shown in the FSM sort of resembles a seal setting tool. There's no mention of using a press of any kind, just a hammer. The sleeves appear quite thin so one of my worries is about damaging the sleeve in the removal process.

Mustang_man298 · #4 05-27-2007, 11:02 PM

I don't know how MB builds their blocks, but most diesels I've seen have the sleeves as a tap in affair, sealed to the water jacket via o-rings, they sit down in a metal lip seat in the block and are retained in place by the pressure of the head.

lietuviai · #5 05-27-2007, 11:07 PM

Sounds like you're thinking of the Cummins blocks. I've seen them. The sleeves were quite thick walled, I think actually in contact with the coolant passages from what I recall. The MB sleeve is quite thin in comparison, looking barely thicker that a tin can.

arew264 · #6 05-27-2007, 11:29 PM

This is kinda off on a tangent, but looking at this, a rebuild doesn't seem as expensive as I first thought.. but then again, when you say "rebuild" you're referring to resleeving the cylinders AND getting a new head, right? or just replacing pieces of the head?

lietuviai · #7 05-27-2007, 11:36 PM

No, just swapping one sleeve out of a bad block. I've got a good spare head.

#8 05-28-2007, 12:57 AM

When a set of pistons cost $900, it ain't cheap no matter how you look at it. Figure $2500 at the very least to do a complete rebuild right.

For just one sleeve, take it to a machine shop or an indie MB shop that has done them before.

lietuviai · #9 05-28-2007, 01:17 AM

No I don't plan to do a complete rebuild. I only plan to transplant the sleeve and piston from the donor engine.

BioPOWER · #10 05-28-2007, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lietuviai

No I don't plan to do a complete rebuild. I only plan to transplant the sleeve and piston from the donor engine.

Are you concerned about the engine being "balanced" once the transplant is complete? Have both motors experienced equal wear-down? It seems to me the sleeve and piston from the donor engine would acclimate themselves to each other, and the sleeve would either be too tight or produce excessive blow-by when used with a piston from the receiving engine.

Then again, if the cylinder's sleeve is damaged, there's a good chance the piston is damaged too.

Shorebilly · #11 05-28-2007, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BioPOWER

Are you concerned about the engine being "balanced" once the transplant is complete? Have both motors experienced equal wear-down? It seems to me the sleeve and piston from the donor engine would acclimate themselves to each other, and the sleeve would either be too tight or produce excessive blow-by when used with a piston from the receiving engine.

Then again, if the cylinder's sleeve is damaged, there's a good chance the piston is damaged too.

There should be mo effect on the "balance" of the engine.....one of the reasons that the "assembly line" was invented was to facilitate the interchange of parts.....and any minuscule wear differences should not make any differences either......I would use the complete assembly for the cylinder......piston, rings, and liner.....from the "donor" engine......

Someone else mentioned "Cummins" liners......there are 2 different types of cylinder liners....."wet" and "dry"......a "wet" liner is in contact with your cooling water, and sealed by "O" rings (and sometimes a copper ring)......a "dry" liner is not in contact with the coolant, and requires no seals.......from what I understand (and I have not looked into this) is that the MB liners are of the "dry" variety......

SB

t walgamuth · #12 05-28-2007, 07:50 AM

the sleeves are indeed dry. i have pressed them out myself at my favorite machinists shop. i used his hydraulic press which will is rated at maybe 80 tons. the force required to get them out is most impressive. it is frightful in fact. if you happen to get the discs which catch the edge of the sleeve wrong i felt that the result could be the destruction of the block by bursting the whole thing. (this could be a wrong impression but the behavior of it all while the pressing is happening suggests this possibility). although if the fsm says you can hammer them out it must be possible, i cannot imagine doing that successfully.

pulling the piston, rod and sleeve out and doing one cylinder sounds good on paper, but the problem is getting the sleeve back in the new home in the same relationship to the piston etc. there is no locating tangs or anything like that.

if i were an okie trying to get to california in the thirties i would attempt a repair like this. otherwise i would not.

a mercedes diesel is a very very complex motor. it takes many many hours to disassemble and reassemble. doing a quck and dirty repair such as this is not in any way cost effective unless you want the experience and are not really concerned with good results.

if it were me?....i wouldn't take a benz diesel apart unless i was going to fix it correctly.

if i were very tight for money i would find a decent used motor and put that in.

the pistons are usually, in my experience reusable. we have replaced some but three out of four times or so we reused them. when we could not we salvaged good used ones from engines with blown rods. they must be measured for wear at the ring lands. my machinist did that.

how is your sleeve damaged? and how did it happen?

tom w

rick surgent · #13 05-28-2007, 07:58 AM

I made a tool , works great. sleeves knock out easy. new ones go in ok, but need to be trimmed (decked) and bored/honed. It makes it easy to reuse pistons , as each cyl can be fit to its piston. If you want to borrow the tool, drop me a line (PM) . cost of maching, head rebild (new guides seals valve job) parts and etc. for rebuild about 1300 to 1500 .

lietuviai · #14 05-28-2007, 12:40 PM

My idea is to take one of the donor engine's sleeves and piston from the same sleeve and transplant it to the ill block.
Apparently something came apart in cylinder #4 and damaged the upper edge of the cylinder wall. The piston and head had suffered damage as well. I have a spare good head to go together.
It is a matter of money here as I want to see how inexpensively I can accomplish the task.
Rick, I appreciate the offer and I'll be sending you out a PM shortly.

IndianaJo · #15 05-28-2007, 08:34 PM

Several people at work have changed sleeves in diesels, my supv some US Marine corps landing craft, another guy has done cummins 11 liter in the truck. I've made a tool to do my mercedes 240D , am going to pull the engine so if it doesn't work I can take it to a shop, but I don't trust my local independent so I am going to try myself. The tool is a 5"X1/4" square box 10" long, with two 4"X1/4 angles welded on set to go flush on the engine top. There is a 3" channel welded across the top with a 3/4 hold in the middle. Separately there is an 11" bar with a 3/4 hole drilled, for some allthread, and two sockets (pipe) welded on at ends to capture car jacks. There are two 6 ton car jacks to push on the bar and the base. There is a 1" square bar to go under the sleeve, notched to fit the sleeve, and trimmed to less than the sleeve OD. I don't have room in my garage to buy a real press, besides the one at work uses a 15 ton car jack for force.
Incindently, sleeves come in 4 or 5 cylinder sets for $100-$200, I would do them all, as well as the rings new. The pistons are very expensive and very bulletproof, measure the skirt clearance with the old pistons without rings to evaluate whether you need new pistons (very expensive). People on this site seem to think old pistons are fine, but I'm going to replace mine, my time is worth it. Of course replace all bearings, including con rod small end, while you are in there, that is cheap too.