Envirosafe Users Question?? Not cold enough?
 

So I had a shop redo my A/C and I supplied him with a new R4 compressor, drier, expansion valve, pag oil and 2-6 oz. cans of Envirosafe and told him after vacuuming the system to charge the Envirosafe at 0 vacuum pressure as instructed by their websire. The only thing was waiting for the temperature switch being ordered as the old one broke off the old dryer. Now my operation pressure is 45 on the low side and 225 on the high side but my system is not that cool. It is 90 and muggy out. What is wrong with this picture? Did they not do a good job flush cleaning the system? I'm going to ask them to look at it but they may respond that they only put the Envirosafe refrigerant that I asked them to put in. Is my condensor plug? Should they have tested it when they flushd cleaned? Thoughts?

Envirosafe worked well for me till it leaked....for some reason I remember using 3 cans?

The r12 capacity is 1.2Kg = 2.64 lbs or 42 oz.

The Envirosafe says 1 oz of ES = 3 oz r12

So they suggest 42/3 = 14 oz, so maybe I'm a little light but the 12 oz. I put in shouldn't be remarkably different. They sell 5 oz cans in addition to 6 oz cans. So maybe 3 cans of 5 oz is the way to go. Is 45 on the low side and 225 on the high side in 90 ambient weather in line? Something is amiss.

I must have used 3 5oz cans then....I don't remember the pressures for envirosafe, but I thought they were supposed to be lower than cfc type refrigerants. Once I realized that envirosafe was pretty much propane with a pine-sol scent, I switched to propane. Once that leaked out I rebuilt the system and used 134a.

I agree something is wrong. Envirosafe did a great job cooling when I used it.

Why not use R12, espescially living in Texas?

perhaps they thought the instructions for 0 vacuum meant to install to an open system... if so, you have a lot of nitrogen or 12 still in the system.
the pressures you report make me think either it's got air/nitrogen in the lines, or the condenser is dirty... is the aux fan coming on?

I am not sure why enviro safe says to install at 0 psi, but i did mine at full vacuum just like any other refridgerant. Get about 33-34 degrees out of the center vent. Low is around 25 psi, don't remember what the high was.

The system was converted by the PO 4 years ago. They evacuated and then backed off the pressure to 0 so presumably there nitrogen in the system. I am waiting for the temp switch to install so the aux fan will not work until I get the switch in.

What car of yours is charged with ES-12? You know i posed the question in another refrigerant thread whether one should charged at ES-12 with 0 pressure like Envirosafe recommended or the typical -30 vacuum and no one replied. I may have to vacuum and reinstall ES-12 as they are only $6 per can x 2.

Can anyone else chime in on this very question with ES-12: have you charged ES-12 at 0 or -30 vacuum and how has it been working??

with 2 x 6 oz cans obviously it cannot be overcharged under vacuum, so they must be referring to a 30 pound or greater can.

my 300d spec is 2.9 pounds of R12 so I think you're low. I would add another can of ES12 instead of wasting what's in there.

I charged at 0 psi....as I said, it worked well while out was in there

I've been using it for years. It's way better if you vacuum regardless of what they tell you. You arent using the Industrial 12 are you? I've never had as good of performance with that. And 45 may be a bit high. How much oil would you estimate total is in the system?

No, I'm using the regular ES. I think there is 8 oz. of pag oil. So I do have 2- 6 oz cans in stock. Do I add a can of 6 oz. have them vacuum and add 2 cans so it will be charged under vacuum? If they vacuum, do they have to add oil again?

What do you mean by "zero vacuum pressure?" I sure hope that this is not the exact wording that was printed on their instructions.

If it only held 2 cans and your low side is at 45, my concern was too much oil in the system. But, pulling a vacuum will allow more refrigerant in the system. Also, what is your idling at? If you have a very low idle, your pressures will be higher. Just something else to think about. The ES-12A has been in my 240D for many years. After delivering my coupe to its new owner in NC, we drove home in 90+ weather for 4 hours, blowing at 37-38 with the blower on 2 out 3 on the speed setting. It was comfortable. Keep in mind, tinting the windows makes a HUGE difference. My car has MB Tex everywhere, and vinyl door panels...etc. All the plastic get very hot if left in the sun, and builds up alot of heat even driving down the road with the AC on. My 350SDL is tinted, and it stays VERY cool in the car with the vent temps only getting to 48 or so.