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-   -   What's inside that MANN oil filter? Taking it to bits... (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/349769-whats-inside-mann-oil-filter-taking-bits.html)

ROLLGUY 01-12-2014 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tangofox007 (Post 3270137)
Could it be because the filter was doing what a filter is supposed to do?

I just asked myself this question: "Was the photo of a new or used filter?" Answer: I have to admit that looking back at the photos, it does look like new filters unopened, and a used filter cut open (with metal bits).
At first I thought it was the same filter, but now I see a used and new filter in the photos....Rich

EDIT: The text on the photo says "OE filter from the dealer", so I assumed that the photo was of a "new" OE filter from the dealer.

RunningTooHot 01-13-2014 12:16 AM

I screwed up earlier today and posted the following in the wrong (earlier) thread:

Side tangent? Same (basic) engine, but DIFFERENT filter designs!

I just bought a '98 w210 yesterday with a turbo OM606 engine. I also have a '95 w124 with the normally aspirated OM606 engine.

While creating a parts list for the new car, I noticed that the oil filter is a pleated ONLY design - there is no "tin can" section at all. Conversely, the filter for the 1995 NA 606 has the tin can section. Just to confuse things more, I looked up the filter for a '96 w210 which has the NA 606 (like the '95 124) - and it uses the pleated only design.

Hmmmmmm......

RunningTooHot 01-13-2014 12:34 AM

The “pleated only” vs. “combination” filters being factory designated for the same basic engine family was pointed out to indicate that this could all be a bit more esoteric than we realize.

While I would never advocate NO filter like the ’53 chevy truck mentioned in the other thread, “fine particle” filtering capabilities came more into play as oil additive packages, machining tolerances, and engine metallurgy became better & better, and therefore drain intervals became longer.

On many of the race engines I used to build (Super Vee’s, Cosworth BDD’s (Formula Atlantic), and various small-bore SCCA stuff) we oftentimes used “Oberg” oil filters. Those were essentially a flat metal screen sandwiched between two aluminum plates. They would catch “the big chunks”, but nothing else. No problem because the oil was changed every race weekend.

I don’t know if anyone remembers this, but years ago there were bypass filters that used toilet paper rolls as a filtration media. (!) They were advertised as a way to extend the oil change intervals to a ridiculous level, or to NEVER change your oil again if used with (early) synthetic oils. This was obviously long before us mere mortals knew anything about additive packages & depletion. Does anybody remember “Arco Graphite” oil? That would be an interesting combo – a toilet paper filter & Arco Graphite. Talk about constipation…. :cool:

ROLLGUY 01-13-2014 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunningTooHot (Post 3270182)
I screwed up earlier today and posted the following in the wrong (earlier) thread:

Side tangent? Same (basic) engine, but DIFFERENT filter designs!

I just bought a '98 w210 yesterday with a turbo OM606 engine. I also have a '95 w124 with the normally aspirated OM606 engine.

While creating a parts list for the new car, I noticed that the oil filter is a pleated ONLY design - there is no "tin can" section at all. Conversely, the filter for the 1995 NA 606 has the tin can section. Just to confuse things more, I looked up the filter for a '96 w210 which has the NA 606 (like the '95 124) - and it uses the pleated only design.

Hmmmmmm......

I think the difference may be because of the fact that the '98 requires synthetic oil and has the oil condition computer monitor thing (whatever it is called), but the '95 does not. A less restrictive (full flow?) filter was needed for synthetic?. Just throwing out ideas here. I also remember the difference in the housing cover. The '95 had an aluminum cover and used the "tin can" filter, and the '98 has a plastic cover and uses a completely different pleated only filter. Having both cars, I had to remember to get different filters as well.

cooljjay 01-13-2014 12:39 AM

I am getting a filter migrane.... :D

So I should toss my wix and get a mann? Even if I do an oil change about ever 1500 miles?

Diesel911 01-13-2014 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunningTooHot (Post 3270182)
I screwed up earlier today and posted the following in the wrong (earlier) thread:

Side tangent? Same (basic) engine, but DIFFERENT filter designs!

I just bought a '98 w210 yesterday with a turbo OM606 engine. I also have a '95 w124 with the normally aspirated OM606 engine.

While creating a parts list for the new car, I noticed that the oil filter is a pleated ONLY design - there is no "tin can" section at all. Conversely, the filter for the 1995 NA 606 has the tin can section. Just to confuse things more, I looked up the filter for a '96 w210 which has the NA 606 (like the '95 124) - and it uses the pleated only design.

Hmmmmmm......

In the Old days there was 2 Tiolet Paper Bypass Oil Filters/Cleaners that were well know.

The Frantz is still made and the New and used ones can be had on Ebay. Even the used ones are not cheap.


The Guy that made the Motorguards got tired of the critisizm and stopped making them for use on Engines.
The new Motorguards are made for dewatering and Filterering Compressed Air.
And, I was told by one of the Members that they cannot be used as Oil Filters because they now have Plastic Parts inside that do not hold up to Hot Oil.

On US and Austrailian Ebay there is a Filter Called the Jackmaster that uses Toilet Paper and is still being sold.


Gulfcoast has Bypass Oil Flters that can uses Paper Towel Rolls or Toilet Paper. However, they have their own Elements and claim they are presently used on Commercial Vehicles as Oil and Hydraulic Filters.


There has been a bunch of other Makers Oil Filters that can use Toilet Paper Elements for Car and Pickup Truck sized Vehicles but they don't seem to have caught on like the Frantz did.


Do a Google image Search for Toilet Paper Oil Filter and see what you come up with.

There is High End Bypass Oil Filters that have sort of time release Addatives built into the Filter Elements.

RunningTooHot 01-13-2014 02:06 AM

Did the '98 & '99 turbos require synthetic per factory recommendations? (for warranty compliance?) Or was conventional oil acceptable per MBZ also?

I also thought about the increased flow requirements with the turbo bleeding off oil from the gallery. Perhaps the piston squirters may have a higher flow rate too? (NOTE: hypothetical and NOT based on anything other than speculation. I would need to research that.) IDK if the oil pump is the same, or if the turbo version flows more. Either way, filters with that much surface area would NOT be restricting flow - and we are getting way off base here, thus the "filter migraine" epidemic.

I think the next time I change my oil, I'll just stuff some old gym socks with the polyester fluff out of an old bed pillow. Then I'll cram as many of those socks as I can into the oil filter canister and button it up. FREE oil filters! Yay! :P

RunningTooHot 01-13-2014 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911 (Post 3270204)
toilet Paper... ...used ones can be had on Ebay. Even the used ones are not cheap.

People are paying big bucks for used toilet paper? Yum! :D

In all seriousness, toilet paper filters can be surprisingly effective for the right applications. And the replacement elements are cheaper than s*it. :rolleyes:

Diesel911 01-13-2014 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunningTooHot (Post 3270206)
People are paying big bucks for used toilet paper? Yum! :D

In all seriousness, toilet paper filters can be surprisingly effective for the right applications. And the replacement elements are cheaper than s*it. :rolleyes:

A good Salesperson can sell anything.

ROLLGUY 01-13-2014 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunningTooHot (Post 3270206)
People are paying big bucks for used toilet paper? Yum! :D

In all seriousness, toilet paper filters can be surprisingly effective for the right applications. And the replacement elements are cheaper than s*it. :rolleyes:

Quote:

A good Salesperson can sell anything.
Please stop posting stuff like this, it is making me laugh so hard it hurts!

gsxr 01-13-2014 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROLLGUY (Post 3270133)
Why would there be small bits of metal in the OE filter? Yes the cotton looks cleaner, but it still looks like cotton gin waste to me, and not a good thing to filter oil through because of the metal.

I should have clarified. Those photos are from a USED filter, after a vacuum pump explosion dumped massive amounts of metallic debris into the oil pan. I cut open the filter to see what was inside. That is why metal was in the filter - it was doing its job. Details on the vac pump explosion are in this thread, more photos are here.

Sorry, I don't have any photos of a new, OE Genuine Mercedes filter cut apart.

:scooter:


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