Waterless coolant, anyone done this conversion?
 

Hi there, I've seen a couple comments on waterless coolant, some swearing by it, where I'd noticed some corrosion of aluminum bits I thought it would be a good idea. Of course like many of these things you research them fully, BUT you don't get the real picture till you buy it and read the instructions, warnings, and troubleshooting.

Number 1: It says, it really doesn't like bypass thermostat setups, isn't that what's in our cars? It says to use a full-flow thermostat ideally one made by them.

Number 2: It says to block off the weep hold in the water pump (or use a water pump by them).

Number 3: It talks about blocking the overflow tube outlet, apparently if there is an issue with vacuum being created and losing coolant.

Does, anyone with experience with this stuff, know the scoop.

I run it in my signature car and it works great. I also run it at zero pressure. It's a little bit of a PITA to install, as you'll need their prep fluid and a refractometer to verify that you've removed all water from the system. It worked fine last winter, and so far, this summer hasn't bothered it at all. Check this site and watch the Jay Leno video. Home » Evans Cooling. They don't want to sell direct, they'll refer you to a dealer.

I watched the Jay Leno video. That's quite an endorsement. What's Leno's involvement with Evanscooling? Does he have any financial interest?

Sounds like a good product. I will look into it further and may give it a try.

What are the negatives if any of Evans coolant other than price?

It was Leno's video that got me on board with it. And I like the idea of a zero pressure coolant on a car nearing 40 years, even though I've replaced every hose on it.

I'd expected the prep part of the conversion, they talk about that extensively on the web site. My system is bone dry, from servicing, block is dry, heater core is flushed and dried with a slow flow of 10 psi air. The radiator is new, and the hoses are all new. So that part is not a problem, it's the other things that I found out about only after buying the stuff, and ready the installation instructions. I don't object to it, I'm just wondering if it's all worth it now, seems like a lot more hassle, than "make sure your previous coolant is all gone".

No opinion just information. I have a 240d that I expect used it at one time. It was no longer present in the coolant system when I purchased the car. You can draw whatever conclusions you like to from that.

Could have been a bad hose or other issue that caused it's removal. Unfortunatly I never knew at the time of purchase or may have asked the owner some questions.

Found two empty jugs of the evans brand still in the trunk in a box with many other things when I got home. Personally I might consider it for a cast iron block and head engine that was marginally running hot unless I could find some cause easily rectified.

I personally at this time have no reason to have anything for or against it.

The MSDS indicates that its primary ingredient is ethylene glycol rather than the more commonly used propylene glycol (probably EPA inspired, doncha know) which is much less toxic.

Please tell about " the other things that I found out about only after buying the stuff".

It would seem getting rid of every bit of water in a cooling system is not an easy task. How critical is 100% water removal? There is moisture in the air and will slowly infiltrate an open Evans coolant system. How bad is that little bit of moisture in the Evans coolant long term?

They say water should be under 3%, they have a flush, which I assume is some kind of alcohol or something that disperses water.

The other things are:

Number 1: It says, it really doesn't like bypass thermostat setups, isn't that what's in our cars? It says to use a full-flow thermostat ideally one made by them.

Number 2: It says to block off the weep hold in the water pump (or use a water pump by them).

Number 3: It talks about blocking the overflow tube outlet, apparently if there is an issue with vacuum being created and air being sucked in.

Looks like the same/similar to Mercedes/Zerex G05 product.

http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/zerex_g05.pdf

I buy Sierra Anti Freeze at Tractor Suppy,I run it 100%,its the same thing really as Evans PG.

Just to be clear Ethylene Glycol is regular antifreeze/ brake fluid. Propylene Glycol is less toxic. I think the stuff is propylene. Otherwise it would be just regular antifreeze.

It's not at all the same. The M-B/Zerex is a ethylene glycol formula you mix with water.

Even's and yes, Sierra is propylene glycol that runs with no water at all.

Ethylene glycol is poison and propylene glycol is used as a food additive...so very different stuff.

Prestone is making a propylene glycol coolant now too, but still has it mix at 50/50 to 30-70 and has other chemicals that make it still dangerous they call it "lowtox" but not exactly the same, though it is cheaper.

It is the same stuff, and is the same price. Did you do anything else to convert? Block the weep hole, or etc?

Number 1: It says, it really doesn't like bypass thermostat setups, isn't that what's in our cars? It says to use a full-flow thermostat ideally one made by them.

Number 2: It says to block off the weep hold in the water pump (or use a water pump by them).

Number 3: It talks about blocking the overflow tube outlet, apparently if there is an issue with vacuum being created and air being sucked in.
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I didn't see this in any of my instructions. That may have applied to their earliest product which was made strictly for racing applications. Regarding its toxicity, "The U.S. CPSC has not granted a waiver for Evans NPG+ with respect to labeling requirements for products containing ethylene glycol. Evans NPG+must be regarded for purposes of handling and disposal in the same category as a conventional ethylene glycol based antifreeze."

IOW, even though it's less toxic, it's still considered EG for safety purposes.

I doubt it shares NPG's 370* boiling point.

A little research shows that it does. I wonder what the other differences are.

MSDS for Evans NPG. 69%, ethylene glycol

http://contrails.free.fr/temp/NPG+_MSDS.PDF

In the video, Jay Leno says you can drink Evans coolant.

Are items 1 to 3 on their web site? Is so please post link.

Did they provides reasons why bypass thermostat is not suitable?

There should be no vacuum if the cap is left loose and run at zero pressure. Something not jiving there.

What's the reason for blocking the water pump weep hole?

I don't know the answers to any of these questions, that is why I posted here. It's not on their website, which was kind of my complaint, and the reason I'm curious now. It's in the printed instructions sent with the product.

As to the chemical composition, I'll try to get an updated MSDS, that one is 11 years old, and everything I read about, and even on Jay Leno's show they say it's propylene based...with some other "chemistry" they don't wish to disclose.

This reference discusses the thermostat a little.
http://www.motor-talk.de/forum/aktion/Attachment.html?attachmentId=725143

Thanks, that is the instructions I got with the product.

Given the "high performance coolant" is actually ethylene glycol, I'm rethinking this entire thing and wondering if it's worth all the hassle at all.

Some here had mentioned using it before, and I was hoping they would weigh in.

Per the instructions posted, Evans makes 3 kinds

Undiluted Evans Waterless Coolants:
High Performance Coolant
Powersports Coolant
NPG

NPG is the only one that is propylene glycol based.
For all Evan's waterless coolants, if you run low or leak some out you are screwed (unless you carry spares) because you can't add water.

This is very true, but I always carry coolant in a 30+ year old car...except for my Karmann Ghia obviously. :D

Since it is not water based the specific heat it can absorb and release will be less than a product mixed with water. That is for a given coolant flow.

Really a good functional normal system does not need this product. I am not against the product. Still I would only personally consider it under very limited circumstances. I suspect they want the bleed hole closed on the water pump because the molecular size of the of the product is smaller than the poison type glycol I think but an not certain of..

For example you can have a car on straight water with no leaks. Remove and add a mix of fifty percent water and regular anti freeze and you may see leaks. The molecular size of anti freeze must be smaller than water or they slide easier. I an not certain of the term to use for slide easier.

An example is in order. Back in the day of my 300.00 immaculate 50 mercury. I purchased it in the spring. It had water as coolant. In the late fall I replaced it with the standard protective mix. Both water pumps started leaking almost immediately. Ford product flatheads had two water pumps that doubled as motor mounts If I remember. I still have one in the garage but the three mentioned cars are long ago.

If that car was not bad enough pricewise by todays standards. My 39 ford for 125.00 with 20K on it. Or my 47 ford with 27 k for 140.00. No kidding guys and all three needed nothing except the 48 ford needed a new muffler and pipe. The cost back then was 27 dollars for parts and labor at a muffler shop.

Things have changed a little it seems or it is my imagination. Back then nobody or very few liked really older cars much but I did and sought good examples out. It was in a time frame that the prestige of what was driven seemed more important than it does today. If you did not drive a new or almost new car was a downer.

If you have any kind of coolant leak it gets expensive. My freeze plugs all leak in winter.

Yeah, leaks are bad, it's more pricey, but the theory here is that the system doesn't pressurize, so the potential of leaks is reduced.

IDK but I think this Evans NPG is more trouble than it is worth considering all the issues with its installation and maintenance and scarce availability. Using the correct OE coolant and routine maintenance is what I will be doing. Green coolant is not the correct coolant btw for our engines. I think VTMbz just had to replace a head gasket in his low miles 190D that had green coolant in it for God knows how long.

How did they get that way? Most freeze plugs don't leak unless the engine has no antifreeze and froze over in winter.

They got that way from corrosion and electrolysis. The term "freeze plug" is a misnomer, they are actually core plugs closing the sand cores that displaced the cylinders when the block was cast.

Corrosion and electrolysis are two of the things waterless coolant is supposed to eliminate.

I called the Evan's people today, real nice people, and they say for a daily driver, just put it in a dry or properly prepped system. Don't bother with the weep hold unless you really want to. And the thermostat and stuff is more intended for hotrods, where people are getting 1,200 horsepower and need every bit of cooling they can get.

The lower risks of corrosion, electrolysis, cavitation, and etc...I think I'm going to go for it.

Thanks all.