Help! LOTS OF BLACK SMOKE after installing Injection Pump from Turbo Car to Non Turbo - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

samueljmullen · #1 07-28-2014, 10:17 PM

I previously posted and was wondering if I could do this because the Injection Pumps from a Turbo car seem cheaper and more available on Ebay. I went ahead and did this. I installed it last week and there's a lot of black smoke and it bairly idles. Today I took the intake manifold back off, turned the Crankshaft Clockwise, TDC, kept going until 15 degrees, so it SHOULD be ATDC 15 degrees. I inserted the tool into the side of the Injection Pump and it went in the slot. I also checked with a mirror and flashlight and I can see the slot is dead center in the circle. So.... what is my problem with this???!!! On my previous post someone said it would smoke a little because it puts out extra fuel but I NEVER thought it would smoke this much! And it barely idles. I drove up the street and came back and the neighborhood was full of smoke. I turned it off, and like I said, I took everything off and the timing seems right...I hope I can get this fixed. Kinda frustrating and I don't want to upset the neighbors working on this too much! Thanks in advance for you help! I hope I can fix this.

Mölyapina · #2 07-28-2014, 10:29 PM

What car are we talking about? What engine is the pump from and what engine is the pump currently mounted on?

The black smoke is no surprise at all... the turbo IP is delivering the non-turbo engine more air than it can burn without smoking. Depending on the kind of pump, you may be able to twiddle with some settings inside the pump to get rid of the smoke.

Mölyapina · #3 07-28-2014, 10:36 PM

If we're talking about a W210, then I'm afraid I can't be of much help... I know very little about how the electrics contribute to the IP.

samueljmullen · #4 07-28-2014, 11:22 PM

yep it's a 1997 w210 with om606. Someone else on here told me it shouldn't be an issue. Hopefully I can find out out to fix this problem! Anyone else? Thanks

dieseldiehard · #5 07-28-2014, 11:49 PM

saueulJ Can you you tell me the Bosch ID off the nameplate of the old IP?
I have the # of a turbo IP already.
I was planning to visit the Bosch shop tomorrow so if you can get that info to me I'll ask the pro, someone who will know without guessing and wil say what can be done to modify the turbo pump (if necessary) to make it perform like the NA IP.
And where are you located, in case there is a remedy here in N Calif?
DDH

Petar617 · #6 07-29-2014, 04:22 AM

The problem is that your turbo pump has 6mm elements and the non turbo pump has 5.5mm elements.The ECU is mapped for the non turbo pump and the turbo pump outputs a LOT more fuel for the same rack position.For instance if it idled with say 20% rack position with the NA pump it would only require 15% rack to idle with the Turbo pump.So the ECU sets rack to 20% engine revs up the ECU cuts of fuel the engine revs down so it hunts for idle like a tractor puller.

mannys9130 · #7 07-29-2014, 04:22 AM

Unless I'm not understanding everything correctly, a turbo IP should behave exactly like a NA IP until the ALDA sees boost in the intake manifold. Right? Because a turbo motor at idle behaves just like an NA motor, no boost and just taking in an air charge at 14.7 psia.

The only thing I can think of is that the 2 valve 60x engines use 115 bar injectors for NA and 135 bar injectors for turbo engines. If the 4 valve motors are the same, perhaps your timing is off because of that? I don't know, I'm just thinking aloud.

I'm curious as to what you'll find out OP.

mannys9130 · #8 07-29-2014, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petar617

The problem is that your turbo pump has 6mm elements and the non turbo pump has 5.5mm elements.The ECU is mapped for the non turbo pump and the turbo pump outputs a LOT more fuel for the same rack position.For instance if it idled with say 20% rack position with the NA pump it would only require 15% rack to idle with the Turbo pump.So the ECU sets rack to 20% engine revs up the ECU cuts of fuel the engine revs down so it hunts for idle like a tractor puller.

Whoops, just saw this. That would explain it for sure. Different sized elements.

I'm not too keen on the OM606 computer control space magic.

winmutt · #9 07-29-2014, 08:57 AM

Well it should idle OK, even with more smoke. Sure you are at TDC on #1?

Petar617 · #10 07-29-2014, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mannys9130

Unless I'm not understanding everything correctly, a turbo IP should behave exactly like a NA IP until the ALDA sees boost in the intake manifold. Right? Because a turbo motor at idle behaves just like an NA motor, no boost and just taking in an air charge at 14.7 psia.
.....

That's exactly how the older mechanically governed pumps would behave.In the W210 there is no governor in the pump, just a solenoid and a rack position sensor.The ECU acts as the governor.

Does it idle like this ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20-BKjL19ro

pmckechnie · #11 07-29-2014, 10:11 AM

I don't know much about the 606 but the one thing I know is that smoke from a diesel is caused by the timing being off a lot, for instance, 180 deg because the TDC used was the TDC of the exhaust stroke, not the intake stroke. If timing is correct, then there is an air supply problem. Not having a turbo should not be an issue if at idle. If too much fuel was injected, the engine would just run faster. Does the 606 have any kind of device in the intake track that could reduce the amount of air going into the engine? I know my 602 has an air valve in the intake and it can cause the engine to smoke if it sticks closed. It is used inconjuction with the EGR valve. Maybe the injection pump is putting in more fuel but the ecu is restricting the air intake for some reason.
Just think, more fuel = more power if there is enough air. Now enough air = black smoke (un burned fuel). At idle the turbo is not an issue.

Paul

GregMN · #12 07-29-2014, 10:22 AM

I just installed a 603 turbo IP in my '96 606 motor.

If it is unburnt fuel smoke from over fueling, it will only smoke when there is more fuel than air to burn it.
It should not smoke at idle. Over fueling at idle should only cause the rpm's to increase, not cause smoke.

By your description, your timing is correct.

Please put your car's model, year, and miles in your signature. How many miles on the car?

Why did you need to replace the IP ?

Is the smoke coming out the exhaust?
What color is the smoke?
Is it smoking at idle?
Do you have air in the fuel lines?
Is the engine making any new nasty sounds since the IP swap?

winmutt · #13 07-29-2014, 11:09 AM

Still vote for wasnt TDC on #1.