Have we reached the OM617/616 tipping point?
 

I went out to the junk yard this morning to do some reconnaissance on various potential parts in anticipation of a half price sale coming up next weekend. There were no MB diesels in the yard. This is the first time this has ever occured. Historically there have been 6-12 617/616s available. There were lots and lots of MB gassers of various types but no diesels.

I'm thinking that instead of considering the junk yards as a ready source of parts to be sourced as needed, it may be time to start being opportunistic and grabbing stuff as available and keeping them in stock for the future use.

Have we reached a tipping point?

I mean....These cars are getting old. The junkers are all pretty much gone, and those that still exist are mostly in the hands of enthusiasts who will hold on to them.
There is going to be a time when these cars will disappear from junk yards, and I'd assume that after 3 decades, that time is now. Not too surprising, I think.

I reached that point around here about 5-7 years ago. I haven't seen a w123 in a yard around here in year and years. Lots of w126's and even more w124's though. We were just starting to see w140's and w210's in the yards before the last decent wrecker near me closed down....

The yards hit that point a few years ago here in sunny South Carolina. When I first got involved with MBs, circa 2008, there were always three or four "new" W123s in the local yard, and keep in mind they bring in fresh blood every 60 or so days, and those hanging out for more than 60 days were headed to the crusher any moment. Now, a few have popped up, but other than those, it's been a dry spell for around two years.

California finally catches up with the rest of the country. Welcome to 5 to 7 years ago here as well. :D

The strange classification of people none of us actually know who send a complete mercedes diesel to the yard without stripping it has dried up.

I have not seen any for the last 10 yrs. here in N.W. In. I was lucky to find a 126 with the motor in which I grabbed a few months ago and am very happy with the motor when I called back 2 weeks ago to get more parts they said it was crushed and gone. What a shame as there were a lot of valuable parts on there yet. It is getting rare to even see these on the road any more as they are 30 yr. old antiques. People all want to drive new trouble free cars.I do think there are more of these cars in the southern and western parts of our country but going fast.

More in the southern and western areas? I dunno about in the west, and maybe it's different somewhere like Atlanta, but in the North Georgia/Chattanooga area there's not a W123/W126 to be found in a junkyard that I've ever seen. For years I've been on this board listening to people talk about "Well, just pull a spare banjo bolt from a yard" and things like that with sheer green envy.:cursing:

I know of three or four others besides mine out on the local roads, but not in the yards.

Soon, the sum of the parts will be more valuable than the whole. There is an '83 in my local yard with the engine and transmission (attached) in the trunk (diesel). I got what I wanted off of it.

Good observation. I noticed the lack of MB's in the local PicknPull with in the last 1-2 years and just figured it was them tightening their inventory. They always had 3-4 gassers at this location...always... and an occasional diesel.....now nothing. Mach4 i think your analysis is on to something.

We generally have a couple - for now. As stated, they're getting old and the tap HAS to run dry eventually. Can't find any Studebakers, either.

Just checked - 2 ea. 300D's, 1 is a 1980, the other is (IIRC) a 1986.

Dan

Back in the fall of 2013 our big pick and pull here in Albuquerque had a bunch of W123s and four W115s. When I arrived at the beginning of the month, I thought I'd go to the yard and get some parts for my 220D but they have none. I think two W123s then a bunch of W124s and W126s. They even have a 190D, which I've never seen there.
Anyway, I'm hoping to find a source for some rust-free sheetmetal, some window hardware and a few small items here & there.

Phil Forrest

I know your pain because I was in San Diego just 3 weeks ago and thought of checking Ecology, but you have to go there to see what they have. A year before, I hit their Chula Vista yard on a 1/2 off day, and there were ~6 1982-85 300D's (with a few others hovering over them, incl. 2 guys who drove up in a 300TD). Anyway, I wouldn't worry. I still find 1963-1966 Mopars at PickNPull in Sac occasionally, and I have ample parts for those cars. PickNPull has a website (Row 52) where you can search and see photos, and over the whole country if you want. One problem is they don't distinguish 300D & 300SD, so I don't bother unless there is a photo, and most are 300SD. I don't know if they sold more or people give up on them sooner. Also, most trim & interior parts I need are usually as degraded on JY cars as on mine. I need those parts from a less sunny region. Maybe I'll hit a yard when I am in FL or GA again.

The Pick-n-Pulls around Portland seem to have a decreasing number of diesels but I do see "non running" w126s go through auction for $500 every few weeks. I've been considering buying one just to see if I can turn a profit on parting it out before taking the scrap to the junkyard. I've been waiting on a 88-92 w126 with good grey interior come to auction and figure it'd be worth about $1000 to me, not running, after I take the parts I want, sell others, and then scrap what's left. That's not even considering the possibility that it is "non running" because of a $3 part somewhere, which would not surprise me.

It certainly seems like time to start thinking about how I'm going to get parts 5-10 years down the road for my 82 300SD. Two or three parts cars look like a better and better idea.

If you can buy em non running @ auction, and have space to store or warehouse em, I would do just that. Sell for whatever you can after cannibalizing them.

A colleague of mine that's been into Corvettes for 50 years, has had over 150 Corvette wrecks on his property as parts cars for years. He's got 25 rural acres to do it though.

Exaaactly.

It's really something if a w123 shows up with anything useful left on it, at a pick and pull in this area. There are exceptions (friend scored a restored fender for me off one a month ago, but that's almost freakshow rare these days).

It's now getting to be a cottage industry, for those with the commitment and patience to scour the backroads for the inevitable farmers and other wannabe WVO types who bought the car(s) then never got around to doing anything with them. Or tried and could not find anyone with half a clue to wrench on them. Not only to find them, but then to talk them out of the weeds.

The problem with those folks is that they all figure their rusted parts cars are worth a grand. Ever tried to buy something from a farmer? LOL

I too have noticed the rapid decline of Diesel cars in my local yards. Gone are the days of having to choose which 300D to pull a part from. It looks like I should keep my stash of 123 parts around for a while. I may be able to retire on them one day!

I agree with the rapid decline of W123 and W126 in the yards.
I see more w126 than w123, but more are gassers.

Since I moved to the boonies of Nevada, don`t see all that many in the yards here. The Carson City PNP keeps them longer than any yard I know of. sometimes 6 months or longer, not a lot of MB`s out here in the Boonies.

In the S.F. Bay Area, San Jose, and the yard on the Monterey Bay, I see more MB`s, but maybe just a higher concentration in the area.
But the availability is dropping off.

Some times the San Jose yard north gets cars in so quickly, they are not in the yards longer than two week....and some times crush them w/o being set in the rows.

I did a row 52 search of 500 miles from my location on the 300`s. here is what is listed.

Mercedes-Benz 300 | ROW52

And a 240D search only shows 3.

Mercedes-Benz 240D | ROW52


I constantly check on CL for 240D and 300D. Came across a few 240`s that were T Boned, and around 300 to $800. I just missed a 82 4-spd for $750.
If you have the room, pick them up and part them out. Save everything.

To most people, these are just another old car to junk. I plan on keeping mine for ever, though my for ever isn`t that far down the road like it use to be. :eek:

Charlie

i haven't seen a w116 in ages. have had great luck finding om617 cars but not so much lately. i guess they are fading away. now w124's are really flooding along with some w210's. gassers of course.

I rarely even see W124's in the yard by me. Its all W210's and W140's now.

I have also noticed fewer 616 and 617 equipped cars in junkyards around here, but have noted as well there are fewer on Craigslist as well. Like others, I am seeing few 123 bodies, and fewer 116. I had formed the opinion that we are in the twilight of cheap easily available parts for the older cars. In the past 2 years locally I have seen one undamaged 617 turbo engine and 3 or 4 616 locally.

Around here, these cars can last for just a couple of weeks, to a couple of months at the longest. I have yet to see anything last 6 months. I have gone so far as to leave my name and number at some of the junkyards when they get one in.

I have pondered just what minor obscure part will sideline one of my cars due to it's unavailability in the future. Like Charmalu, I would like to be driving my cars as long as I am able or allowed, and am trying to plan accordingly in gathering spare parts. Fortunately, my wife is supportive of this.

I am open to suggestions of what parts I should be stock piling. Seems regardless of what I get, I end up needing what I didn't get as well. I'm getting to the point of considering picking up cheap parts cars and stripping them myself, when I can beat the junk yards to them! This whole thing is past being just a cheap daily driver or hobby, it is becoming a way of life. Do we have a secret hand shake yet?

I had considered picking up a cheap 87 td, but passed as all the cars in the family are 616 or 617, and I was hesitant to pick up a car that was not in the same commonality of parts. I'm trying to standardize like Eddie Harriman did with the Common Standard designs of 100+ years ago to limit the different number of parts I need to get and hold.

Good thread and good comments!

W.

You guys need to hit up Charlie, he has all
The spare parts hoarded...:)

I have a rusty coupe that I plan to dismantle and keep many parts from. I have a line on a 240 that I can get cheap with a blown motor and a second car I can get the manual trans from (for free). The 240 will be taken apart and sold for parts once I get the manual trans out of it. In the end I will have a spare manual trans. I have room in my basement to store some parts so I'm going to keep a lot of stuff and sell the turbo specific parts and interior. I'm fixing my N/A to keep and drive. I have offered the good running engine with great compression and I had no bites so I figured I would just keep it and put it on my engine stand (that I bought just for this purpose). I doubt I'll ever convert the N/A to turbo but it will certainly be a 4 speed before long. I will pickle the turbo engine and put it in the corner of the garage. I see that being harder to find soon. 169k and great compression isn't as common as they once were.

I see these parts getting harder to find. While that stuff will be taking up space in my garage, sooner or later I know it will sell. I think Kent Bergsma or someone will see the potential profit and start stockpiling more 123 parts soon. Since I'm a bachelor (I don't need her permission) and I have the room in the basement, I may see if I can find one to part out here and there.

I think the coupe parts will be the hardest to find with the wagons close behind. I'm glad there's only a handful of coupe specific parts. Good thing I found the parts car or I might not have bought the one I plan to repair.

Walter.

There is this 82 240D for $495 in Canby, think that might be close to you unless you are is Wa.

82 Mercedes 240 D

Then another 82 240D in Eugene for $650, guy says it needs a new 4-spd Trans. might just be
Shifter Bushings or maybe the Shifter.

Classic 1982 240D Mercedes

I was in Portland for a week, and checking CL all week didn`t see this car.
Coming back home we came through Eugene. Next day I see this new listing. :( Dang, I could have stopped and checked it out.

These both look to have good bodies, I wouldn`t part out these, But it they were totaled, then another story. One day even good bodies will be harder to find.



Found this one closer to me, another 82 240D.

Mercedes 240D ( jumped timing ) nice paint and interior 4 speed manual - $500

Charlie

I am sure Charlie has me beat, but I might be a close second :D

Bet you are getting ahead of or may have passed me, since I haven`t
hardly gone the past year because of this move.:(

Aaaaaand, there is not much to choose from here in Nevada.

Next closest yard would be probably Sacramento about 2 1/2 hrs from here.


Charlie

Hay Hay there now, you be quiet and don`t let the cat out of the bag. :rolleyes:

Where you been? Haven`t seen you in a while.

Charlie

Guys I have been checking CL from the Bay Area to Seattle, Wa. and the Reno area for 240D and 300D w123.

Found a few between $300 to $1000. One I might call on a 83 240D 4-spd that was run out of oil. Then a 300 parts car with 6" wide Light Alloy wheels.
Sell those and would pay for the rest of the junk.
Then an 82 240D that threw the timing Chain for $500.

If the bodies are good, the mechanicals can be fixed.


Here is a 83 Euro 300D for $750. Looks pretty good, too bad it is so far away. :(
1983Mercedes 300D

I you have the place to store these low price cars, you can have all the parts you will need.

Hey, my Wife said I can have all I drag home.:rolleyes:


Charlie

Even W124/W201's are getting rare around here....There's a few enthusiast nice W126's around and a few W123's.....no junkers. Most MB's around here are W202 or newer. Rust eats any car that ventures out in winter. I saw a perfect condition W115 the other day, looked awesome.

I'm sure it's not the complete end of the line for seeing 616/617s in the yard, but we're definitely catching up with the rest of the country as far as availability is concerned. 107s are all but extinct from the yards now, but once about a year ago there were 5 there with 4 of them within six cars of each other. I'll definitely be more agressive in snagging good parts moving forward, maybe even grabbing some for sale on eBay.

The yards can no longer be considered an as-needed-parts-store for old MBs

I rarely see any 123s on the road now. a 126 occasionally. I get lots of looks in my 240D these days including from young people.

Very area dependent, I'm thinking. I've never seen a 617 in a junk yard. Ever.

Here in the PNW, diesel MBZ's are vintage, very trendy with the hippy granola sandal biodiesel craft beer crowd. Mention "biodiesel" in a car ad and you can easily have a car that you east coast guys would deride as a $500 junker going for $2k. We don't salt the roads here, which I think helps tremendously. If there was an era where they were common in junk yards, I missed it. Any that are still on the road now are relatively well cared for.

There are two right now in the So. Portland PNP, fresh within the last two weeks. A few years ago one might have had five or six to pick from in the Metro area, but availability is definitely dwindling, as is the overall census. There have been a few short periods in the last year or two when no W123 was available in the yards, but there's usually one or two to be found. They are likely to become more scarce as the newest of the W123's ages past 35 years. It's still a lot easier to find parts for my W123's than it is to find anything for my 43 year old W114. Another factor is the independent entrepreneurs who are paying better than scrap prices, which are currently very low, and parting these cars out.

I really think that the biodiesel/wvo fad in the PNW has passed along with the ready availability of decent W123's that could be economically driven into the ground over a year or two of ownership. I agree that most of the ones that remain are being relatively well cared for, and that too is putting more pressure on the used parts markets.

I see a few on the road in Columbus. Kind of weird, there are a hand full of Jeep Comanches running around. They are usually rare to see on the road. I haven't frequented the Pnp's of late. I never saw many there at either in Indy.
Tom

Being a college town there has always been old Mercedes running around here in Lafayette.

Hello folks. This one was near me, so I went out this evening and had a look: It's on a large farm between Yoder and Canby, about 10 mi. North of Silverton.

Seller is a BMW guy who works at a shop in Portland. Has some classic BMW's in barns & garages on the property. He also has several motorcycles but just the 1 Mercedes.

Said he's not familiar with diesels at all, got this one cheap and family drove it for a while, but it was hard to start in Winter, had blow by and never did have any power(240D Auto!), so concluded it needed a re-build & parked it in a barn 2 years ago.

It has good paint & a truly rust free body, interior was fair, save for typical drivers seat split. Needs a good clean-up. Passenger side CV axle boot is torn and radiator is rusty. Good tires. I gave him $350 for it. When I get it home, I should be able to get it running and go from there.
Don

W123 and 126 diesels and gassers still show up at Pick-n-Pull here in Norcal but fewer of them and more of the 124 gassers (rarely a 1987 300D Turbo). W210s are now appearing occasionally, never yet a diesel and almost immediately stripped.

The 123/126 cars look to have been sitting in the weeds for a long time while the 124s have been wrecked just enough to not be worth repairing.

Jeremy

::
Don great that you got it, let us know how it turns out.
Hard to start could just be Glow Plugs, valve Adj., Filters or low compression.

Might be a Diamond in the rough.


Charlie

Thanks, that's what I thought too. Seller said he hadn't adjusted the valves or done anything else but drive it some. Paperwork shows 240K on it 4 years ago, now @244K miles and sat in barn for couple years. Probably not a diamond but could be a jewel when cleaned, get a battery and hopefully up and running. Don

So is now a bad time to get one?
 

I wanted to get a W123 with an OM616 as a daily driver as my first MB. Is it too late for that now?

Not necessarily. They're out there, and reasonably easy to find, especially if you're willing to travel a bit for a nice one. I see a few pop up on Craigslist every month here in Massachusetts.

Finding one that's not a complete rustbucket is the challenge. Personally, I bought a rustbucket that I'm fixing up.

No, not at all. There are still quite a few available and often at a pretty decent price. Most of the maintenance parts are pretty available as well.

What this thread has shown is that using junk yards as a readily available "parts store" for cheap used parts is either over or getting over depending on your location.

The only thing I would caution in using a W123 as a daily driver is to have a backup means of transportation for those times when something breaks and it takes awhile to fix. My other caution is that if you're not a DIY kind of person, you need to be independently wealthy to handle the shop costs of keeping it on the road.

What do you think a reasonable price is for one that at least drives reliably? I have another reliable car that I can use when I need. From the ones available near me if they drive they are asking around $3k. If they drive and look nice more like $6k. I was thinking about getting something that at least drives and then slowly work on it myself. Hoping to budget $100-$200/mo for parts/tools to get it at least sorted mechanically. Is that reasonable?

Where are you located? Pricing differs in different areas.

Trout, where are you located? That can matter greatly in terms of answering your question.

I'll throw out some hard-won wisdom (I'm 68 and have messed with cars for well over 55 years) - go South and get a rust-free body to start with. If you have to pay a friend to haul it back on his car trailer - still WAY worth it.

Even rust belt cars that seem OK may have significant rust in the structural members (rear jack pockets are a good place to check) and that stuff is always hard to fix. You may have a hard time hiring someone to fix that stuff as, if they're in business, there are liability issues that they simply don't want to get into. I've welded up WAY MORE than my share of rusty hulks (I lived in Michigan for most of my life) and I can assure you that unless you do a full frame-off resto (actually, that's a rotissiary resto on these) they don't stay fixed. So start with a decent body - and shiny paint is NOT an indication of "solid". You have to climb under there and REALLY look and poke. MAACO can make ANYTHING look decent!

The mechanical bits are all fixable though Mercedes can be more challenging than most. I'd start with a late (say, '82/83) 240D with a manual trans. Expect the clutch slave to be bad but these are pretty basic cars and pretty easy to understand. Pelican Parts has provided lots of good stuff for my OM617 (the engine in a 300SD and what I have in my race truck) for reasonable prices (no, I DON'T work for them!).

Have fun!

Dan

Dan,

Thanks for the advice. I live in Florida so I can't go much further South. Around here when buying used we try to stay away from the beach. Beach cars are pretty easy to spot though with lots of body rust where the water collects.

I was looking at 82/83 240D's. But I can't find any manuals. All autos. I'm fine with the performance as long as they work.

I paid $600 for the '83 240D that I harvested the trans/flywheel from. It was an OK body but the jack pockets were just starting to get soft. The body was probably savable. I found it in Raleigh so a friend and I trailered it back. You might expand your search a bit north to GA, SC, NC - the concept is that it's worth traveling to get a nice starting point. If you find something around here I'll check it out for you.

Dan

Having a back-up vehicle is good advice, even if it's just a bicycle! I have a good running 240D that is back-up for when I'm working on my newer vehicles. It is also great for running errands around town. When looking for rust free cars, people tend to be unaware that the Pacific NW has quite a few relatively rust free examples still kicking around. Don

At some point prices on 240d and 300d cars may substantially rise. Based on them being somewhat unique. No other car made was quite like them.

At this point in time one should consider buying up the best one available at an affordable price. One logic being the parts costs are also likely to rise as well.

I've seen this on other vehicles. Every yard used to have 1st gen Datsuns. 15 yrs later, there are none. There are 126s here. Most are 1986 or newer and gassers.

Our yards contain mostly 124 and 210 gassers. There's a 50% chance of an OM61X at any point. Ususally one or two W126 gassers.