Hi there! This is my first post.

I recently bought a sailboat that has a Mercedes 240D engine in it. As is usual with sailboats, the engine is installed at a slight angle to align with the propeller shaft. I measured it with an angle protractor: it's around 7.5 degrees. The side with the belts is up higher than the side that connects to the transmission.

I'm trying to figure out whether the dipstick in the engine is stock or whether it was customized to account for the fact that the engine dipstick tube is on the high side of the engine (and thus will always show a lower oil reading than if the engine were level). I suspect the dipstick is stock, and that the previous owner overfilled the oil as a result. The engine has some blowby, and he wound up installing some kind of oil-separator that sits along the crankcase->air intake hose and separates out any oil droplets in the blowback: it drops them into a little plastic soda bottle (welcome to sailboat engineering), which was completely full when I checked it. I'm hoping the large amount of oil in the blowby is at least partly due to him overfilling the oil.

So if someone with a 240D could do the following, it would be a huge help to me:

1) Take your dipstick and measure how long it is from the flange that rests on top of the dipstick tube to the low and the high markings on the dipstick.

2) Go park your 240D somewhere with a 7 degree incline and tell me how much lower the oil level is on your dipstick there versus when your car is flat. I hate to be obsessive, but please try to actually measure the incline and make sure it's not more than 8 degrees. I'd hate to put too little oil in the engine. I'm thinking one could do this pretty simply with a level and an angle protractor: just measure the angle between the level (with the bubble showing flat) and the floor of the car? (or you could measure the angle between the level and the road).

I don't actually know for sure if the oil level affects how much oil splashes around the crankcase and into the blowby, so if I seem to be barking up the wrong tree here, I'd be open to hearing about it.

Thanks a lot!

Don't have a 240 anymore, but over filled is a possibility, empty the soda bottle.

Do you have a pressure gauge?

Adjust the valves when you can.

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83 SD

84 CD

Yes, I emptied the soda bottle (it filled back up to 1/3rd, and I've emptied it again).

I'm going to adjust the valves (and do a diesel purge) as soon as the wrenches I need for the job arrive.

My oil pressure gauge is currently not working--it just went out, along with all my other gauges. It's happened before--old corroded wiring issues. That's high on my fixit list too. From what I remember when the gauge still worked I was getting decent oil pressure.

I just did the "dancing oil cap" blowby test again with the engine warmed up, and there's both a lot of blowby (esp when idling), and a lot of oil droplets coming out.

Thanks!

Seven degrees is quite a lot. Oil frothing at the back of the engine by the crankshaft throws may or may not be occurring. If the engines main oil drain back is the timing chain hole you are better off than not and I suspect it is.

Personally if faced with this I would get another example of the same oil pan from perhaps a salvage yard. Tilted the seven degrees I would just want to make sure there is evidence of the oil level to estimate if the rear of the crank throws are indeed submerged into the oil somewhat. There is a natural drain slope in the pan that may help.

There is not much of a practical nature you can do though really. Other than since the dipstick is in the sump you are going to add more oil than normal to get a proper reading.

I would say live with issue and it may be the reason the pop bottle is filling up if the oil is really being agitated inside the engine enough at the back of the oil pan.. I do not think you can establish what is really what without the extra oil pan experiment to be sure. My gut feeling though is it will take more oil than it would in a car to reach an acceptable level.

Another thing is to contact the Mercedes classic centre perhaps. Many of these engines landed up in boats. They should know the maximum degrees of tilt that are allowed for their engines. Another consideration is the head also being tilted is there a pool of oil retention back there or a drain for it as well? There are tests I can think of but they do not change whatever is.

What was the run time for the soda bottle to fill back up to a third and the size of the bottle? If the engine has been in service in this situation for a long time. Like an alcoholic perhaps you can just stay on the bottle. Pulling the dipstick with the engine running might reveal frothing.

The correct procedure is to drain the oil then put in the correct amount of oil and then make marks on the dipstick.If you buy a new Cummins marine engine it is delivered to the boat builder with no markings on the stick as there is no way to know when they build the engine what the installed angle will be.Most marine engines can be installed up to 15deg,so at 7deg there should be no problem with the crank hitting the oil.Finding out the factory spec for oil fill for that old engine may be a problem.This is all with the assumption that this is a true Mercedes marine engine and not an auto engine that someone converted.

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Red Green "This is only temporary,Unless it works!"

97 E300D 157000 miles
87 300TD ?141k? miles

7 degrees does not seem like that much to me. They're not level in a car are they? The oil is pretty well contained in the deep front sump is it not? I would be surprised if the sloping pan under the motor is not sloped very nearly 7 degrees either.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

The pop bottle oil separator is a nice cheap copy of a device used on recip aircraft engines. (I've got one on a om617 that was owned by an A&P/Pilot). In planes it keeps the oil off the bottom of the fuselage. In a boat it will keep the oil out of the water. Oil laden blow by is normal in older, worn engines. Prior to positive crankcase ventilation systems engines had a tube from the valve cover that extended downward to under the car. On really worn out engines you would get almost as much smoke from the blow-by tube as from the tailpipe.

Or more.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

> This is all with the assumption that this is a true Mercedes marine engine and
> not an auto engine that someone converted.

The only "marinized" parts of the system is the cooling system. AFAIK the engine block, etc, is all stock 240D.

> Pulling the dipstick with the engine running might reveal frothing.

I tried this at reasonably high RPM and didn't see any signs of frothing on the dipstick.

> My gut feeling though is it will take more oil than it would in a car to reach
> an acceptable level.

Let me see if I understand you. You're saying I might need more oil in the engine if it always runs at a 7 degree tilt?

> What was the run time for the soda bottle to fill back up to a third and the
> size of the bottle?

It was quick (less than a few hours), but I suspect that was because the oil had backed all the way up to the separator and clogged it. I'll keep an eye on it, of course.

Any chance I could get a 240D dipstick measure from anyone? I'll settle for just the dipstick measurements if no one's up for the "park at a 7 degree incline" experiment.

Thanks!

Interesting... I just looked at the manual for a Nanni 240D (another version of a marinized 240D, but with a different heat exchanger and possibly a different oil cooler than mine), and it has a little table that gives how much oil the engine should take, depending on the angle of incline:

0 degrees: 5.5 liters
5 degrees: 4.2
10 degrees: 3.6

They also say "you must add 1.5 liters for the oil cooler and oil filter".

Alas, while the diagram for the engine shows a similar-looking oil cooler to mine, I don't know if it's exactly the same capacity as mine. So I'm still a bit rudderless here. But at least we know that the engine should actually take *less* oil when it's tilted.

I could really use a dipstick measurement. If mine turns out to be longer than stock, I think I can safely assume that it's been calibrated for my engine. If not... I'm not sure what I'll do: I guess run it at the bottom mark, or even a little lower? (I'm not happy at the thought of having too little oil in the engine, so it's a little never-wracking to think of just guessing the right level).

I think your best bet is to drain all the oil out you can and fill with the quantity of oil specified. Looks like 4 liters at 7 degrees. If you're changing the filter add a liter. more or less. Not to worry about the cooler unless it is equipped with a drain. After all that look and see what you have on the dipstick.

Trying to measure the dipstick without having proper measurements on it is guesswork IMHO.

As for blowby, there is an oil separator on 240s when installed in a car so if its functional you should not need the pop bottle.

Can you post up pictures of it for us to look at?

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

I would do it, but don't have a 240D. You could invite some heavy crew for a sail and get them to stand up at the bow. Then check your oil level

Just thinking though that the 240D (with some difficulty) would be able to motor up a 7.5deg hill (13% grade?).

But I understand your need to get the proper amount of oil in the engine and have a way of measuring it. Draining and adding the "correct" amount seems like a reasonable way - 4L excl filter?

BTW, my 15HP 2cyl Yanmar only takes 2L of oil (just changed it)

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Graham
85 300D,72 350SL, 98 E320, Outback 2.5

Nanni diesel engines used to do the 616 marine conversions. They are still in business it appears. Although they no longer do the 616 engines. I suspect this just because the conversion cost of them is no longer listed. They have a contact us on the net function on their website.

Try them. I suspect they may have the information you want. Guesswork is not an ideal approach. I had a quick look on the web and this place came up. I also suspect in the day they did a lot of 616s.

The rate of oil collection in the bottle may be indicative of too much base oil perhaps. Truthfully I just do not know.

If you have an auto oil pan not the nani... I would NOT put 5 liters in it!

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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 560SL convertible
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
2005 Dodge Sprinter 2500 158"WB
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!

Suggestive that up to ten degrees is allowable without crank splashing. Now if they used the cars oil pan or some form of aftermarket one I do not know. I still kind of suspect the original cars oil pans may have been retained. With any modifications I also do not know or suspect.

What is fortunate is I think all the answers are out there and you will get them.

I remember the first time I ran across an early Mercedes diesel engine in a boat. It was in a 35-40 foot Norwegian trawler converted to sail in Europe before our club member brought it home.

They sailed it there for about a year after the conversion and brought it home on a ship. This trawler before conversion was seized by the Germans in the second world war and used as a fiord patrol vessel. The most ruggedly built wooden hull I ever saw.