I just wanna be able to burn donuts if I want to!

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

You da man, Dan!!! That's awesome. Thanks for sharing the dyno graphs... that stuff is really nice to see but not so many people do it.

__________________
"Senior Luna, your sense of humor is still loco... but we love it, anyway." -rickymay ____ "Your sense of humor is still loco... " -MBeige ____ "Señor Luna, your sense of humor is quite järjetön" -Delibes

1982 300SD -- 211k, Texas car, tranny issues ____ 1979 240D 4-speed 234k -- turbo and tuned IP, third world taxi hot rod

2 Samuel 12:13: "David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die."

It's interesting. We have 2 dyno shops near me that I'll use (there are a few others but I wouldn't take a riding lawnmower to them). Everyone thinks dyno work is big $$ but I have less than $300 in ALL of the testing done on both my Camaro (I had trouble getting the carb tuned in on the 6 cylinder so it went to the shop several times) and the 2 different sessions on Mutt. Compared to towing to the track in Ohio and finding out I don't have a workable combination this stuff is FREE!

Folks may have to dig around in their local area but it's pretty likely that there's a reasonable shop near you that will do this testing for fair money. If you're near Wilmington or Jacksonville, NC I can recommend Randy at Carolina Dyno in Wilmington or Wayne at Wayne's Dyno in Jax. Both are great guys and very helpful. Expect to get a Dynojet but as I've said they aren't ALL bad.

Dan

For the others. As long as the dyno is consistent over time, actual numbers ( or units of measure) don't mean much unless we are certifying a test object.

There are a few brands of dynos that use hydraulic pumps bolted to the wheels, something like this could be whipped up from scrap.

A system could be devised where the drive shaft is removed and pump installed, the limitation here is RPM as most hyd pumps don't like speeds much over 3600 or so.

I'm most likely at the low end of your 175-200 range with my MYNA pump and stock turbo but would love to change the turbo with something I could bolt on. Could you post some suggestions for myself and everyone else? thanks! additional question- How big is your exhaust piping?

You just never mind my exhaust plumbing! I'm an old man.....

Oh, you wanted to know about Mutt's exhaust plumbing. Well, there ain't none. If you take a look on my build thread you'll see the installation thru the front fender straight from the turbo outlet. IIRC, the pipe is 2 1/4" and no more than 18" long with a flex joint so the engine can move a tad.

Tim at Tim's Turbos in Falls Church, VA did right by me. The website is (the site cut out Tim's website - you'll have to Google it) . Good guy. As far as a bolt-on turbo, I never looked into that. The Mercedes setup with an integral wastegate is specific enough that unless you're willing to develop a system (turbo, wastegate, exhaust system, boost controller, and plumbing) the smart choice from my point of view is to modify the stock turbo more or less like mine is.

BTW - the T04 compressor does NOT plumb back to the factory intake manifold. Again, I show in my build thread how I got around that by modifying the stock manifold by adding a connector off the top of the manifold and blocking the original inlet. Any good machine shop ought to be able to do something like I had done for not a ton of $$.

I'm afraid I have some bad news for you guys. These engines are outside of the normal hot rod engines - small block Chevy or Ford, big block Chevy, or even Cummins ISB - so you're sort of on your own and none of it is as cheap as doing one of those common engines. I learned most of this at The School Of Hard Knocks and I'm still learning. I'm happy to share what I've learned but I'm afraid I can't take the $$ out of it. I will tell y'all that the best bang for the $$ was the SuperPump which might not be suitable for street use. The other changes I made helped a little, the SuperPump changed the whole personality of the truck.

EDIT: I have no experience with the MYNA pumps. I'm sure they're very good, too. I now have a sort of relationship with Goran and am confident in his work. Pretty much anything that gets more fuel into the cylinder will build more power and I'm convinced that adjusting timing, messing with the ALDA, etc. can only make slight improvements. The real power gains seem to be in a good pump whether MYNA of Dieselmeken.

Dan

A somewhat milder pump and maybe a slightly less modified turbo should get this engine in the 175 to 200 HP range with great reliability and street manners. Mine really wouldn't be happy chugging around town.

If you build it they will come!Call it a Stoked Stokes 617,I could see a few people pay a $1800-$2000 kit cost for a reved up 617.You do have a reputation built around this engine ,do what most racers do ,go for a production around your knowledge sir.

I just wanna be able to burn donuts if I want to!
I can chirp in 2nd if the peddle is down and the wind is right.

The cheapest way to accomplish that is with hard, narrow tires!

Dan

I'm retired and have NO interest in being otherwise. I run on 3/4 of a heart (the left outer wall was taken out by a heart attack) and I really don't have the energy to pursue this. But I'm more than happy to share what works and what (at least for me) didn't.

Really, I'm no Zen Master of the 617. Everything from the valve cover to the bottom of the oil pan is as it left Stuttgart other than simplifying things slightly to facilitate installation or service. Anyone can bolt on a better pump and clean up the exhaust system. As far as I'm concerned, the trick is not building too much engine for your application - every mod carries power gains and also some downside like reduced drivability, increased engine noise, lower fuel economy, etc. In my application HP is king and I really don't care about most of the downsides but for a driver you probably would.

So go out there and have fun with your Diesels!

Dan

I don't think you need to worry unduly about engine durability. Mercedes made several of these engines to run 200 hp for the Dakar. Although the engines only traveled 3000 miles they stood up real well.

And then there's this.........

".......The C111-III was powered by a 170 kW (230 hp) at 4,500 rpm straight-five OM617 turbocharged Diesel that broke nine Diesel and gasoline speed records..."

I have run a 1984.OM617 at 36psi IIRC. This didn't do anything except coolant would climb to 100C if pushed, although "pushed" was high into the very illegal .

I dropped it to around 22psi and this on a stock pump. lasted for years, sold it to an eye doctor . However, I did port the snot out of the head and had the block and pistons blue printed by my machine shop buddy and i/p rebuilt by Delco Diesel.. Oh yes, and I had the timing slightly reduced....don't exactly remember by how much now....IIRC around 20BTDC spill.

With inter cooler and sound engine, I think you will see good life from it and a lot of 'silly grin' moments.

After all, how often are you going to making 200+ ? Not often, and only for a few seconds on the road.





.

__________________
[http://languageandgrammar.com/2008/01/14/youve-got-problems-not-issues/ ]

"A liberal is someone who feels they owe a great debt to their fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money."

Dan is your head ported and is the cam stock?

Everything from top of the cam cover to bottom of the pan is, as stated, stock. I did replace the main bearings when I was in there to do the rear main seal because they were a bit worn and I was there anyway but no other "hard parts" have been serviced.

I have a spare engine on a stand and eventually hope to do a "hone the bores, new rings and bearings" sort of rebuild. At that time I'll have the head freshened up, valve guides fixed if needed, etc. If I can get my hands on some decent performance cam specs I'll probably have Delta grind a cam for me. But the real lesson of my engine is that a stock old (somewhere over 207K miles where the odo failed) OM617 will make all the power a 617 ought to be asked to make with nothing but a modified turbo and a lot of fuel injection pump. Would modified this or that help? Probably, but how much are you going to ask from an old, half-worn-out passenger car Diesel? I think it's going above and beyond what it should be asked to do and I doubt it would make a lot more HP if it had every trick in the book thrown at it. Might this engine blow up at 20ish PSI of boost - maybe. That's why I have the spare engine!

Dan

Here's my build spec from back in 1994(?).

New Cylinder Liners.
Pistons ceramic coated.
Liners installed and honed to OE tolerance fit, each individual piston.
( New piston very $$$.)
New Ring Set.
Total Seal 2nd ring modification.
Block tanked after total disassembly ( Including oil squirters.)
New upper gaskets.
Intake and Exhaust valve stem seals ( They are different and OE Mercedes best.)
Head surfaced.
K liner valve guides.
Head gasket ported....radical.
Valve pockets relieved.
Valve angles left stock but blended.
Crank sonic tested and polished.
Rods sized.
All reciprocating parts balance checked....and balanced where necessary.
New chain and guides.( Mercedes master link.)
New oil pump change and tensioner.
New rod and main bearings.
Graphite rear seal.
Oil squirters pressure tested. ( 28 psi opening pressure, IIRC.)
I/P rebuilt.
Injector nozzles new...German then.
Pop tested to max pressure.

This is best I remember.......maybe some items I have missed.

Standard '84 300D ran 10 second zero to 60 and could do better with stick tyres.

Never got round to inter cooler.


.

__________________
[http://languageandgrammar.com/2008/01/14/youve-got-problems-not-issues/ ]

"A liberal is someone who feels they owe a great debt to their fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money."

FWIW a compound turbo OM617A recently made 425hp and 765Nm torque (564 lb-ft). Look up Dieselmeken's page on Facebook.

__________________
1978 300D, 373,000km 617.912, 711.113 5 speed, 7.5mm superpump, HX30W turbo...many, many years in the making....
1977 280> 300D - 500,000km+ (to be sold...)
1984 240TD>300TD 121,000 miles, *gone*
1977 250 parts car
1988 Toyota Corona 2.0D *gone*
1975 FJ45>HJ45
1981 200>240D (to be sold...)
1999 Hyundai Lantra 1.6 *gone*
1980s Lansing Bagnall FOER 5.2 Forklift (the Mk2 engine hoist)
2001 Holden Rodeo 4JB1T 2WD