camber is terrifically uneven after alignment
 

so. previously, camber on both sides was negative due to some collapsing LCA bushings. i had a reputable shop install new (Meyle) bushings and align, in that order, and the results kind of stink. even with the camber problem, the car used to go straight. now, it always wants to turn left, just like the note suggests. (their "before" numbers are probably meaningless because of the bushing change.) the shop clerk told me things tend to only be this wonky after a collision -- i'm not aware of one, but who knows.

what is a good course of action here? should i look into replacing the control arms on the left side?

http://www.lithic.org/tmp/align.png

It is hard to say because no one witnessed them installing the LCA Bushings.

You can't just stick the bushings into the bore and press them in. There is a specific postion the bushings have to go into before pressing them into the bores.

See pic shows the bushing on the left and the arm to the right in post #3.
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/275868-replace-front-control-arm-bushing.html

The other thing is you can have a toe in measurement be OK but if it is not centerd to the chassis it will cause pulling.

Your caster is around 2deg off. S/B 8deg 45min +- 30min.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/2520962-post5.html

This was my first thought also.

Caster seems low...but I mainly drive W126.

How well does this shop know old Euro cars?

Are the eccentrics adjusted?

Is there another shop you can get a second opinion. It is hard to say what's going on without actually seeing your suspension.


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My comment about the bushings being pressed in correctly has to do with the range of adjustment on the eccentric bolt. If the bushings are not pressed in correctly I believe it effects how much adjustment is available.

Then it was said only the lower control arm bushings were changed. The uppers can effect the adjustment. And I believe what is going on with the Sway Bar Bushings also can change stuff because it kind of controls how fare forward or backwards the upper control arm position is.

Also the camber adjustment effects the caster adjustment and the caster adjustment effects the camber adjustment.
And the camber adjustment with the eccentric bolt does not have much range to it so you most likely have to end up with some compromise.

If the camber is bad that causes tire wear. So if you are going to compromise on something it is better to compromise the caster.

I did my own alignment and can't brag about that. I insalled one of my lower control arm bushings slighly off and decided to use it anyway the way it was.
Anyway in the end I ended up running out of adjustment and had to compromise. If you let go of the wheel it pulls gradually to the left and I do have some slighly abnormal tire wear on the outer edges but I keep the tires rotated or swap them around on the rim (I have a manual tire changer).

You usually judge the camber fairly well by looking at the front tires, viewed from the front. You can measure precise holding a carpenter's level vertical and tape-measure horizontally to top and bottom of wheel rim, subtract, calculate angle (recall arctan, and stupid kids who said, "I'll never need this", or enter as "gradient" then switch to "deg" on calculator). For those that don't know, camber is how the tires lean in towards the car (negative). Most people today want slight negative camber, for better cornering, and radial tires are forgiving. IndyCars are set extreme (google images).

I doubt it would much affect how the car pulls to the side. Our 1996 minivan was hit on the side, shoving the top frame in. Even w/ the LCA adjustment at limits of the slotted hole in the new strut (I even filed the hole more), the left front was still leaning in much more than the right. But, the van drove straight w/ hands off the wheel on the highway. I eventually pushed the frame rail back w/ a porta-power (while head was off engine for room) and got the camber set correct. Toe-in can greatly affect how the car wanders and how tires wear (inside edges if too much toe-in).

I have read that if caster is different between L & R that can cause the car to pull to one side. On my 300D, you adjust caster via the guide rod mount screw (have never done). The one time I had the LCA bushing unbolted, I left all that in place and just slid the LCA inner pivot out of the K-frame. If the shop did that, they wouldn't have touched the guide rod adjustments.

What 911 said. The LCA bushings must be oriented correctly when installed or adjustment range can be different than factory specified.

ALSO, I had one shop give me an SD back with the camber adjustment maxed out to one side or the other ie \\ or // I forgot which. The tech noted that "car can't be adjusted". He should have added "by him".

What happens is caster adjustment affects camber adjustment and vice versa. This guy set one adjustment, then the next then checked his original setting and it had changed. He chased his tail all over the place until he gave up.

If your bushing(s) were installed wrong, then the remedy is to cut them out and start again with a new set of Lemforder bushings. New LCA bushings should be able to be adjusted right in the middle of spec probably with equal range on either side. The car should handle like a new Mercedes if you have all bushings and ball joints in spec - especially if all are new.

Accept no less. I can only imagine what a shop would charge for this. Did you have them address brakes at the same time? You should because the only extra labor would be if they charged for installing new caliper hoses and inserting new pads into the calipers.

A thought...
 

Would the suspension parts/alignment numbers on a stock 240D be identical with the 617.952? In other words, does the '77 300D have the same suspension parts and alignment specs?

Perhaps there is a difference with a heavier engine in there, a tired spring, or perhaps excessive "curb kissing" (best not done with eyes closed!):)

I'll agree with Junkman, the "tech" probably gave up, took an early lunch and signed off.


snapped_bolt

Based on the front camber / caster readings, they didn't even try to adjust either at all because of the small camber and zero caster change. Yes, positive camber on the LF will cause the car to pull to the left. Looks like a toe adjustment only. Or. . .I think they may have been turning a non eccentric control arm bolt.

The only way not clocking bushings properly would cause a problem is if the bushing ID was offset from the bushing OD. Even then, you would still have a full range of adjustment but it would have some offset from a properly installed bushing. If the bushings in question are concentric, the difference in install clock position would be for stiffness not alignment range.

There are offset crash repair bushings available for some cars but I haven't seen offset bushings as OE as this would not accomplish much.

Also, if the tires have camber wear, the car may pull _slightly_even with a good alignment so be prepared for that.

hi folks, thank you for all the details. some concern was expressed about whether the shop put the bushings in properly. of course, i didn't watch them do the job, but here are photos, in case they illuminate the question of what was or wasn't done:

http://lithic.org/tmp/SAM_0425.JPG

http://lithic.org/tmp/SAM_0426.JPG

interesting to see that the little square protrusion only shows on 3 of the 4 pieces.... if they screwed this up i will take it right back.

The left side is definitely wrong. Also, the bushing does not look right in the arm.

Be sure to make a copy of the shop manual showing the proper install, this will eliminate and doubt as to proper clock position.

In the lower pic, left side of bushing, I see the lower bushing portion overhanging the arm and short of the top. This would pull the lower control arm inwards giving more - camber but probably not all of it.

The hole in the LCA that the bushings get pressed into are round. The bushing itself is round on 2 sides and flat on 2 other sides. The bushing goes in so that the round ends are in line with the control arm.

If my recollection of a round hole is correct, and if the hole in the bushing is in the center, then installing them wrong would not affect adjustment but would affect how much support the bushing had when any force was applied in line with the control arm.

I think at least part of the problem is in the adjustment.

New front end parts for my 2 126s took the slop out and eliminated most of the tendency to follow the road crown. I had the same alignment characteristics as before the install. Techs are generally incompetent and it frequently takes 2 alignments to get things to be acceptable. Many simply want to "adjust to specs". They are too uneducated (synonym - ignorant) to consider adjusting so that it steers correctly.

To make a point, I ask the tech if he owns a drill. When he confirms, I point out that most people don't buy the drill because they want one. The real reason they buy the drill is to get the hole. OP didn't buy bushings and alignment because he cared 1 little bit about bushings and alignment. He bought because he wanted the car to handle as it was designed.

Generally, the 1st alignment gets it close, the 2nd gets it to the acceptable level. The OP is at the 1st point where he needs to get it close. I would request a refund if they can't get it adjusted. You may want to keep an eye on the alignment process. A friend of mine showed me how he can bump the head of the machine to get any reading he wants. The part that is mounted to the wheel can be tapped on forcing it to move independently from the wheel. If the specs are off a little, a tap on the head will get it to line right up without making a proper adjustment. Then blame any steering issues on the car or tire.

I can give you a dropbox link to my zipped 126 FSM if that will help.

That is exactly how I understand it, and would explain it. With the weight on the car and spring pressure on the LCA, it will want to pull towards the outboard side of the car. If the bushing is installed with the flat side facing out/in (vertically=less support), then it would take more of the adjustment to bring it into spec, than if the bushing was installed correctly. That may be why the eccentric is maxed out on that side.

If someone has not mentioned it the eccentric bolt and nut need to be torqued while the car is sitting normally weight of the car on all wheels. That can be on the ground or on a rack at the alignment shop.
If it is on the ground it is difficult to torque due to limited space and the high torque. But I did it when I did it.
The bushings are lined up compared to the flat area on the control arm which is normally covered by the lower spring perch.
　
There is 2 types of bushings. The 2 piece Bushing which is the same as the W126 lower control arm bushing and the stock W123 bushing which is listed as a 3 piece bushing which has an aluminum tube that needs to be flared.

thanks everyone. i went back to the shop with documentation, had them mount the bushings over again, and they said the camber improvement was only minimal. i'll post the results when i get it home again.

this is a big commercial shop that has been in town for decades and it's hard for me to imagine them being incompetent at it... unless aligning this car is inherently different from all other cars? i thought i could avoid figuring it out myself by going to a pro... ugh.

What is the history of this car? Have you had it long? Any crash damage visible?

Are the upper bushings bad? Check closely if someone drilled / moved the upper control arm mounts.

Was the alignment OK enough pre bushing change that it didn't pull?

i've had the car for six years. all i know about accidents is one quarter panel is dented and the front passenger door was once replaced decades ago. it never had an alignment problem until i this episode, when i connected the uneven tire wear with the deceased LCA bushings. the upper control arms were replaced in 2015.

i did swap the swaybar for the wagon version along the way, and its bushings seem OK, but maybe the four nuts on it should be loosened before alignment so that it's not holding other things out of whack in some status quo ante position. also, can the position of the steering rods affect the alignment? for all i know those parts are also not in their original positions.

here is the shop's second try at seating the bushings. the rectangular protrusions in the rubber are now more or less lined up. it's an improvement, the car isn't oversteering quite like before.

http://www.lithic.org/tmp/align2.png

I don't mean to rain on your parade, but Meyle does not have a good reputation for rubber suspension components. Not saying they're your problem here, just pointing it out in case you happen to remove the arms again in the course of troubleshooting. As a data point, my '04 BMW went 10 years and 120,000 miles on its original bushings, which still felt "ok". As part of a complete suspension refresh, the control arm bushings are the one thing I cheaped out on and bought Meyle. The Meyle replacements are completely destroyed in less than 2 years, and feel worse now than the 10 year old original BMW parts. :mad: I won't be buying this Meyle brand again.

There is a very large amount of adjustment available on these cars. Look up how to adjust and measure camber and see how much adjustment is available on this car. Make sure you have the correct eccentric bold. Note (and mark) the current setting then crank it over to the other side.

Here's the 126 FSM (program.rar). There are trans manuals there too. Unzip and run the swf file to bring up the menu. The pdf will show up in your downloads folder.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5wgmveryif2ijnh/AABn9OEwrQQHYx224rbwS-ZAa?dl=0

Take a pic of the left adjuster eccentrics and note in the pic from what direction they were taken from and up / down. The LF camber got worse after they aligned it making me think they are turning the adjuster in the wrong direction.

Steering rod / tie rod location won't affect what is going on here.

Was this car wearing out tires on the LF outside as long as you have had the car? If so, something on the car may be bent.

Since it sounds like there is some question as to the shop's knowledge and capability with an older MB, personally I think you should take it to the dealer. MB dealer alignments are very reasonably priced, about $149 around here. And they will have all the correct tools and procedures. The larger high volume dealers often have a vintage guy on staff specifically to handle cars like yours. The big high volume MB dealer near me does, and he's often wrenching on mercedes cars a lot older than yours. I've owned a lot of old european cars over the years, and the only two brands I've ever seen where the dealership is actually a good place for service on an older car, are Mercedes and Porsche.

I am suspicious that the shop removed the bushing to check their work. The spring needs to come out to remove the control arm. I've had to cut the bushing out as directed by the FSM. There is no easy way to check that the bushing is oriented correctly. IF they went to the trouble, they would need new bushing and Lemforder is not easily available locally.

What needs to happen is the shop needs to adjust the caster, than verify the caster after each adjustment. After that the camber can be adjusted but with the caster so far out of spec, the camber will stay far off.
Edit
Also, your thrust angle is way out of wack, which will cause the car to track in strange ways.