Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 07-13-2017, 05:57 PM
Mad Scientist
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,598
Maybe the pics aren't showing it well, and my apologies if so, but those tires look shot to me. Nowhere near 30% tread left. I would have replaced them and not bothered with a repair.

MAYBE run them through the summer and absolutely as a top priority replace them before rain hits again.

__________________
617 swapped Toyota Pickup, 22-24 MPG, 50k miles on swap
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-13-2017, 06:07 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 169
I have used plugs many times over the years and have never had a plug failure. I think they are a great invention.
A few times with a slow leak from a nail I have driven to my repair shop and they can install the plug without even taking the tire off the car or putting it on a lift if the nail is visible!
A patch is a lot of work- lift car/remove wheel/ remove tire from wheel/ install patch/remount tire/rebalance tire/reinstall tire/ remove from lift.


jz
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-13-2017, 08:55 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Newport News, VA
Posts: 367
I built homes for a living for about 16 years. Nails and screws in tires is just part of the job. I would guess I have installed a hundred plugs. I have never had a problem with a plug, however, it can be difficult to get the plug through the steel belt, and a poorly installed plug could fail. I consider plugs as permanent. I believe the mention of "temporary" is a CYA statement for those that have trouble installing the plug properly. A simple patch without a plug, is not a proper repair as water and air can get to the steel belt and cause it to deteriorate. A simple patch over a plug is fine, but if the plug is holding air, I would not bother.

I have a steel plug in my pickup tire that has been there for at least 5 years. Sometimes those nails go straight in and don't cause a leak.
__________________
'97 E 300 D
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-13-2017, 09:17 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,964
Quote:
Originally Posted by funola View Post
Did you verify that it indeed was the plug that blew out or the tire blew out from other causes like a damaged sidewall?

I recall a rear tire blowout (heard a loud pop) driving down to DC in a Honda Civic 20 years ago. It was no drama, the car didn't do anything funny. I steered the car to the side of the highway and put the spare on and continued driving. Don't remember the cause of the blowout. Probably low tire pressure on an old tire.

This was a '65 Chrysler, from before Honda built cars. Come to think of it, they must have been bias ply tires. The road is important: The BRP is one of those twisty legacy roads where there are lots of cars, everyone drives too fast and there are no straight lines. Turning and braking with a blown tire is not a good plan, but it may beat running off into the trees. I was lucky to escape undamaged. I think you should verify whether your Mercedes has RWD, it makes a big difference. FWD puts most of the stress on the front end.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-13-2017, 09:43 PM
funola's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 8,249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mxfrank View Post
This was a '65 Chrysler, from before Honda built cars. Come to think of it, they must have been bias ply tires. The road is important: The BRP is one of those twisty legacy roads where there are lots of cars, everyone drives too fast and there are no straight lines. Turning and braking with a blown tire is not a good plan, but it may beat running off into the trees. I was lucky to escape undamaged. I think you should verify whether your Mercedes has RWD, it makes a big difference. FWD puts most of the stress on the front end.
The tire plugs are in my VW, not Mercedes. I'd think a rear wheel blowout is easier to control than a front wheel blowout, doesn't matter FWD or RWD. I'd think you should just steer and not brake or step on the throttle after a blowout, which could get you into more trouble.

You have not answered my question if the blowout was related to the plug or something else.
__________________
85 300D turbo pristine w 157k when purchased 167,870 July 2025
83 300 D turbo 297K runs great. SOLD!
83 240D 4 spd manual- parted out then junked
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 07-13-2017, 09:58 PM
funola's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 8,249
Quote:
Originally Posted by nelbur View Post
I built homes for a living for about 16 years. Nails and screws in tires is just part of the job. I would guess I have installed a hundred plugs. I have never had a problem with a plug, however, it can be difficult to get the plug through the steel belt, and a poorly installed plug could fail. I consider plugs as permanent. I believe the mention of "temporary" is a CYA statement for those that have trouble installing the plug properly. A simple patch without a plug, is not a proper repair as water and air can get to the steel belt and cause it to deteriorate. A simple patch over a plug is fine, but if the plug is holding air, I would not bother.

I have a steel plug in my pickup tire that has been there for at least 5 years. Sometimes those nails go straight in and don't cause a leak.
After installing the plug and noticed how tough it was to get through the steel belt, I can't see how the plug could fail. I too thought the warning the plug is temporary is just a CYA.

Good point a patch alone can fail with water getting into the steel belt (it's magnetic, I checked) and cause damage.

I bought the plug kit with the 2 tools years ago where the consumables are long gone. The Slime plugs was bought last week and its instructions did not mention using rubber cement. I just watched a few youtube videos on tire plug repair and all of them used cement to coat the tools before insertion, which would make the tools go in easier since the cement acts as a lube. I had a hard time getting the tool in without the cement (had to hammer it in with a mallet) but it sealed fine and did not leak. Good to know both ways work.
__________________
85 300D turbo pristine w 157k when purchased 167,870 July 2025
83 300 D turbo 297K runs great. SOLD!
83 240D 4 spd manual- parted out then junked
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 07-13-2017, 11:21 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 3,147
Driven w plugs until I replaced a tire. A temp fix in a sidewall, if it worked at all.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 07-14-2017, 01:36 AM
Diesel911's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Long Beach,CA
Posts: 57,482
Quote:
Originally Posted by funola View Post
On my daily driver, a 92 VW idi diesel, I've been driving around for a year on a 2 diagonal (F&R) tires with a very slow leak. Last summer I pulled the wheels, submerged in water but saw no bubbles. So I put them back on and just keep putting air in them every 4 to 6 days where it would lose about 5 to 10 psi. These tires have about 30 % thread life left and I did not feel like getting them fixed @ $12 ea at a tire shop or buy new tires just yet. A few days ago I I pulled the wheels again to find the leak and found a finishing nail in each tire hidden under the threads. I sprayed soapy water on it and it showed a tiny bubble approx every 5 seconds, which explains why I did not see any bubbles in the submerged test. (Pic shows nail pulled out a little with dikes).

I learned long ago if you have a nail in your tire, don't pull it out unless you are prepared to fix it immediately otherwise you are guaranteed a flat. Apparently I drove around for a year with 2 nails in the tires with no collateral damage!

So I pulled the nails and put a plug in each, no bubbles per soapy water, inflated and installed the wheels and so far they are holding pressure. The tire plug package instructions says this is a temporary fix and to get a proper patch installed. I don't understand why that is since the patch plug (no leaks) has to be better than the nail plug (very slow leak) that was there.

Anyone with experience driving around with a tire plug?

Some notes:
1. I was not strong enough to push the rasp cleaning tool nor the tire plug tool into the tire. I had to hammer them in with a rubber mallet.

2. Dikes (wire cutter) did not trim the plugs which were tough and springy. I had to use scissors, which made it easier but still tough to cut.

3. If the tire is fully inflated (I keep mine at around 40 psi), if you work quickly after pulling the nail, the tire will not be totally flat and you should have enough air in it to drive to a gas station.

4. I am keeping all tools and parts needed in the car to do a tire plug, which can be done with wheel mounted.
I have been using Tire Plugs since the late 1960s. On Steel Belted Radials they are less reliable then on the older Tires that did not use steel belts. You have to use the plugs made for steel belted tires.

I would say that overall plugs are like 80 percent reliable. They all work when you first install them but over time they can go bad.

I have never had a catastrophic failure from a plugged tire; they just start leaking.

Since the late 1980s I have had a Manual Tire Changer I got from Harbor Freight (you also usually need an air compressor other wise it is difficult to get some tires to take the bead enough to inflate).
If you have one of those you can do the inside patching. On small Holes I have just roughed up the area inside, degreased with brake cleaner and let it dry well and smeared a dab of Silicon Sealent over the small hole.

That is a cheap fix and so far has never failed on me. The real inside tire patchs that are made for the job are actually rather expensive.

Also out here if you took a Tire with a side wall puncture even a small one they will refuse to fix it. That is where I started using the Silicon Sealant smeared over the hole. Side walls flex and change shape a lot (likely why they won't patch them any more). Silicon Sealant is thin and flexable and can take the heat.

One of the things that sucks about using Tire Plugs is if the hole is small the tools to install the plugs are often larger then the hole. I really hate having to make a hole larger to get the Plug in.

They type of Tire Plugs that have been most reliable for me are essentially made from what some sort of cotton strings/thick threads twisted to gether and soaked with some sort of rubber cement. Although you are also supposed to use rubber cement on them.

On the plus side there has been many times when I have plugged a tire on the road without removeing the Wheel (I carry littl 12 volt air compressors in each vehicle I own). You can often pull the object that is cusing the leak out and shove the plug in while the Wheel is still on the Car.

A needle nose pliers is helpful to pull out the objects.

I definatly will continue to use tire plugs as needed.
__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 07-14-2017, 01:49 AM
Diesel911's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Long Beach,CA
Posts: 57,482
Quote:
Originally Posted by funola View Post
After installing the plug and noticed how tough it was to get through the steel belt, I can't see how the plug could fail. I too thought the warning the plug is temporary is just a CYA.

Good point a patch alone can fail with water getting into the steel belt (it's magnetic, I checked) and cause damage.

I bought the plug kit with the 2 tools years ago where the consumables are long gone. The Slime plugs was bought last week and its instructions did not mention using rubber cement. I just watched a few youtube videos on tire plug repair and all of them used cement to coat the tools before insertion, which would make the tools go in easier since the cement acts as a lube. I had a hard time getting the tool in without the cement (had to hammer it in with a mallet) but it sealed fine and did not leak. Good to know both ways work.
The Steel Belts squriming around over time can cut the plug.

The Steel Belts around the area of the hole can rust.

I have only noticed this with the type of plugs I use and the area I worked which was a yard with 40 acres of dirt. I found that the plugs which were made of stringy threads cotton threads impregnated with rubber cement it seemed that the dirt absorbed the cement out of them and dried them out and they would at a later date leak.

I used my own plugs to fix the company vehicles. There may have been another type of plug that would not have dried out. It was just easier for me to use mine and get the job over with.
__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 07-14-2017, 07:55 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Middle TN
Posts: 4,177
I'm lazy and don't like leaking tires. $12 isn't enough of a savings for me to fool with and, I'd spend money on the kit. I keep a spare inflated and would either get both patched or replace if they're too worn to spend the $12 patching. You have warning that something needs to be done and aren't stuck on the road.

Next problem?
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 07-14-2017, 08:41 AM
moon161's Avatar
Formerly of Car Hell
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 2,058
I had a tire shed an embedded roofing nail (based on the size of the hole, and history of roofing near the driveway) on the way to daycare and it was going flat when I got there. I didn't have enough for a can of fix a flat, but I found a TEK screw from work in the car(self drilling sheet metal screw) that I screwed into the hole. The head of the screw wore off and it stayed in for a year or two. I think the tire later failed at that point though.
__________________
CC: NSA

All things are burning, know this and be released.

82 Benz 240 D, Kuan Yin
12 Ford Escape 4wd

You're four times
It's hard to
more likely to
concentrate on
have an accident
two things
when you're on
at the same time.
a cell phone.


www.kiva.org It's not like there's anything wrong with feeling good, is there?
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 07-14-2017, 08:55 AM
funola's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 8,249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkman View Post
I'm lazy and ..............

Next problem?
That says it all!
__________________
85 300D turbo pristine w 157k when purchased 167,870 July 2025
83 300 D turbo 297K runs great. SOLD!
83 240D 4 spd manual- parted out then junked
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 07-14-2017, 09:10 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,964
Quote:
Originally Posted by funola View Post
The tire plugs are in my VW, not Mercedes. I'd think a rear wheel blowout is easier to control than a front wheel blowout, doesn't matter FWD or RWD. I'd think you should just steer and not brake or step on the throttle after a blowout, which could get you into more trouble.

You have not answered my question if the blowout was related to the plug or something else.
Yes, of course it was due to the plug letting go.

Losing a rear will create an unstable understeer effect. Unless you drive pro rally, probably not something you experience every day. The rear will shake right and left, and the slightest steering input will bring you around. You are significantly more likely to crash if the tire that blows is in the rear. That's why every manufacturer recommends the best two tires go on the rear. Not steering or braking works, but only if the road is straight and clear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHYt6KC5ZYc

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15823875

It's a little different for FWD, because 70% of the steering and braking will happen up front.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 07-14-2017, 09:12 AM
funola's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 8,249
Quote:
Originally Posted by moon161 View Post
I had a tire shed an embedded roofing nail (based on the size of the hole, and history of roofing near the driveway) on the way to daycare and it was going flat when I got there. I didn't have enough for a can of fix a flat, but I found a TEK screw from work in the car(self drilling sheet metal screw) that I screwed into the hole. The head of the screw wore off and it stayed in for a year or two. I think the tire later failed at that point though.
I really like the screw idea as an emergency plug. The (screw) threads keeps it in place and as the head wear off, the plug works better.
__________________
85 300D turbo pristine w 157k when purchased 167,870 July 2025
83 300 D turbo 297K runs great. SOLD!
83 240D 4 spd manual- parted out then junked
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 07-14-2017, 09:30 AM
funola's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 8,249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mxfrank View Post
Yes, of course it was due to the plug letting go.

...................
Was your plug installed in the sidewall? That's where most blowouts happen, where it's weakest because it's the thinnest and constantly flexing. If your plug was installed on the treads, I can't see how it could have blown out unless it was not installed properly. And if the plug did blow out, it would be a tiny leak and the tire would slowly go flat. That is technically not a "blow out".

Here's lot's of pics of blowouts. With few exceptions, most are on the sidewalls. The few blowouts that are on the treads are likely from hitting pot holes (cutting the tread), and not from a tire plug blowing out.
https://www.google.com/search?q=tire+blow+out&rlz=1CATAAB_enUS627US627&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiO2eKS74jVAhVG8j4KHfhEB00Q_AUICigB&biw=960&bih=471

__________________
85 300D turbo pristine w 157k when purchased 167,870 July 2025
83 300 D turbo 297K runs great. SOLD!
83 240D 4 spd manual- parted out then junked

Last edited by funola; 07-14-2017 at 11:09 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:22 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page