Solve this cranking no start, will pull start condition!
 

Hi! Thanks for the add. I have lurked for a a while but am registering today to ask for help in diagnosing my car! I'm stumped.

About the car: '82 240 with a '79 300D (NA) engine with a custom two-tank wvo kit with separate filters and a delayed purge to prevent diesel contamination. Last I checked compression was around 260-280 psi in all cylinders (it's an old engine).

I have rewired the glow plugs to run off a ford ignition solenoid and a push button. I have confirmed glow plugs are heating by removing them and shorting them to 12V. they also are all reading 12v when the button is pushed. Alternator is from a saab 900 rebuilt, rated to 120a, also wired with heavy gauge and I have not been experience charging issues.

The problem is the car tends to want to stall on idle and I have to pull the idle adjust to keep it running when coming to a stoplight or off the freeway. It can also smoke a lot at idle. Then a few days ago it died at a stop sign and I was unable to start it with the starter. cranking for 20 second intervals until the battery needed charging. I had been having intermittent starting issues for a while previously (hence the glow plug rewire), but this time I couldn't get it started at all. I was able to get it towed to my friends house.

I fully charged the battery (low from cranking when it stalled in the street). I installed a WOSPerformance gear reduction starter and rewired the starter to battery. I changed the fuel filter (my suspect for the dying on idle) and the air filter while I was at it. Still cranking no start. I cracked the injector lines and purged air until I saw fuel, closed them and still cranking no start. Took the battery to autozone and they confirmed it was good and fully charged.

I had a friend pull start with a tow strap and it started instantly in 2nd gear. I was able to drive it in stop and go utilizing the idle adjust to keep it from dying on idle. I drove 8 miles towards home and at high rpms it drives fine. Then it died in an intersection and I was unable to start it with the starter, just more cranking. My friend pull started it again and we towed it home. I fully charged the battery and still it cranks but no starting.

What are the potential causes for this strange condition? I suspect its wholly unrelated to the veggie oil setup, and am suspecting the fuel injection pump. I would appreciate any guidance. Thank you in advance!

If you had air in the injector lines you need to find out why. There should NEVER be air in the fuel system.

260-280PSI for compression is getting pretty poor. If it's been a while since you've checked, it would be worth checking again, you may not like the numbers. When you tow-start the car, the RPM of the engine is likely higher than it is when cranking with the starter. If low compression is your culprit, the higher RPM is necessary to overcome the lack of compression. When's the last time you adjusted your valves?

If you're running WVO, it's not unheard of for residues in the oil to gunk up the injection pump or score the injector nozzles.

Hi,

Where is your timing?
Hot and cold the same starting issues?

Tom

I last adjusted my valves maybe 5 thousand miles ago.

I use wvo settled then filtered to 5 microns, and in the car from the tank I have a prefilter, a vormax/racor heated filter, then another prefilter before it hits the injection pump, and I check the prefilters regularly. I also purge with petrodiesel always and so the only times wvo is in the pump is while the car is running. Could this still create residues? I have found no evidence of polymerization in my crankcase oil btw.

Hot and cold same cranking no starting.

I rotated my engine to OT and I saw both of the cams were pointed up for the first cylinder, but I haven't checked anything farther.

Unfortunately it sounds like the motor is in it's death throes...

Check your IP timing. I bet you're out.

Once started and running well, try running on Diesel fuel. You would be amazed at how much better our DIESEL engines run on DIESEL fuel.

Are all of the glow plugs operational? Even once running, a glow plug is still a hot spot making for smoother operation. Given your compression is low, glowing a warm engine is probably needed.

I'd dump the veg system and concentrate on regular fuel only.

So you are the guy at 2:40 + ( the good part starts at 4:17 7:40 , more fun stuff from 830 - 8:40 :) ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXEFY48IDkE


See more cars in , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpyQwy6uuK4

Well, the 8 mile drive I described was on petrodiesel. When it died at the stoplight I was running on petrodiesel. All of these issues occur regardless veg/diesel. I have separate fuel filters, three solenoid valves, and a check valve after the diesel filter so I am sure I am not getting cross contamination with my fuels. I understand veg oil is controversial, but the symptoms I'm describing don't deal with the veg oil components, as I don't start on veg oil.

I thought minimum compression on this engine was 200psi? Does anyone have functional engines with compression like mine?

All glow plugs are confirmed operational. I usually run the plugs for 25-30 seconds before cranking. Are you suggestion an afterglow relay to run the plugs when the engine is already warmed up? My issue is with starting, so that seems like a fix for a different problem.

Trying to figure out how the video is relevant- are you suggestion I startup with ether or wd40? I've understood those to damage an engine...

As for the pump timing, does anyone have a good tutorial on checking that?

The unburnt residue from wvo can coke up the rings. Or if the car is not used daily turn to a very strong gum type adhesive in the ring lands. Injectors can get in pretty bad shape from it as well.

I am not a fan wvo myself. It takes some effort for example to even dewater it. I suspect that is what killed so many injection pumps using it in the day. Processing a water component through injection pump elements. Is abrasive in nature.

Anyways I would do a new compression check. If lower than the last time. Do a cylinder soak for about a week. Then recheck compression. Starting with a pull and not with the higher speed starter you have. Is not a good thing.

Of course make certain the glow plugs are really working. The interior light should dim when you apply the glow plugs.

Interesting. So this could be from partially burning wvo, maybe at idle? Wouldn't this be expelled in the exhaust stroke, or burned off when purging with petrodiesel? I never park the car for more than 15-30 minutes on wvo. If it's any more time than that I will purge to petrodiesel.

I definitely don't drive daily. Sometimes it's parked for a week. I'm gonna borrow the compression tester from a friend and I will let you all know what's up.

Just to check, to re-time do I line up the OT mark on the crank with the camshaft, then unbolt the IP, line it up and rebolt it carefully after rotating to 25-26 degrees?

Thanks everyone for their help! I figured wvo was safe as long as I had processed quality settled oil, only burned it when it was in a hot engine and heated to 80+ degrees C, and if I always purged to petrodiesel afterwards...

I was referring to the multiple laps at 4:17 to 7:40 being towed behind a station wagon.

Ether for a diesel will cause damage however, it compression drops to the range of a gasoline engine, ether is the only way it will start.

Veg oil / old motor oil in a diesel is a disaster. Sure, it will work for a while but it gums up pumps, injectors , piston rings. Given you have low compression and likely poor injectors, unburned fuel is still in the combustion chamber and will get to the piston rings.

Any damage caused by the veg system has already been done, simply switching to regular diesel won't fix the issue. Fix the engine and run on diesel until things are stable then decide of going back to veg is worth the risk.

A few possibilities on the will start on a tow but not with the starter.:

The battery has a shorted cell ( An actual shorted cell not the generic " It is shorted " some use for any electrical problem. ) A shorted cell is like installing a 10 volt battery, it will provide electrical power for as long as a 12 v battery but cranking speed will be low.

The starter is worn out. Starter have 4 field coils and 4 brushes. If you lose a brush, starter power will drop by half as will cranking speed.

If the starter drive is slipping, the starter will spin but not turn the engine. While cranking, look to see if the fan is spinning.

Some sort of issue allowing the engine shut down system to remain engaged while cranking. I can't offer any details as to how this would occur )

I strongly suggest you do not mess with the pump timing unless it has been removed in the past. I feel certain that your problems stem from the use of wvo for fuel regardless of how it is stored/treated. Hopefully your pump and injectors have not been compromised beyond restoration.

Do a diesel purge.
After change your filters,also check your in tank filter if you haven't in a long time.. thats where I'd start but if you have bad air intrusion that's sinking the ship..

You have 2 places in your diesel motor that require high compression for your motor to run. The cylinders in the engine and the cylinders in the injection pump.
The cylinders in the engine can loose compression around the piston ( worn rings and/or cylinder walls ) and by the valves not seating anymore.
The injection pump will not make enough compression to fire the injectors properly when it gets worn out.

Burning WVO can stick the rings in their grooves in the piston. This usually is from burning WVO that is too cold to be sprayed in a good pattern out of the injector, so it dribbles out and the unburnt WVO ends up on the cylinder walls and is scraped up by the pistons and bakes in the grooves. This can be from the WVO system not heating enough or usually from the operator switching too soon.

Water in the fuel system can damage an IP. WVO, as fuel, is home made to no standards from unknown source stock. Removing water is so important. Micro droplets of water is found in the cleanest WVO. These micro droplets of water, when put under the pressure that is present in the cylinder of an IP, will explode with enough force to pit the metal on the walls of the cylinder. Over time the IP will not be able to create the pressure needed to fire the injectors.

At the beginning of either of these conditions, the engine will become hard to start at the speeds the starter motor can turn it. Once started with a tow, as you have done, it will be turning enough rpms to continue to run.

Don't go chasing IP timing, or throwing any money at it. At the compression when you last checked, the motor is tired. Go ahead and adjust your valves, run it up to temp., let it cool, and then check the valves again.

Save your money for your next car. That's just my opinion....

Well, the results are sobering.

compression as follows in psi:
220 240 190 240 250

And take a look at this coke buildup on the crush washer and injector of piston three (the one with low compression). Perhaps this crud broke off and scored the walls/rings? Part of me was hoping the damn thing'd fire up once I unblocked the crush washers...

The engine was definitely worn before I ever got it running on wvo (previous compression numbers are pre-conversion), and it had some repeated trouble starting this winter, even with the block heater. Alas, it appears I'm just another ignorant human mistreating a machine. :o


https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1730/...d78759eb_z.jpg


https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1760/...3ffef28c_b.jpg

Yikes! With those compression numbers you're going to have hard starting. Typically once you drop below 200 PSI the engine will have difficulty even maintaining idle if you can get it started.

It's unlikely that a chunk of carbon fell into the cylinder, the injectors shoot into a prechamber, so there's no direct connection to the cylinder from the injector area. If the carbon chunk fell off, it fell in the prechamber and burned.

The injector tip you show is pretty knackered. If the rest are like that, I'm surprised the engine even ran! Surely it was nailing and smoking?

Might be looking for a healthier used engine if you intend to keep the car going.

My old Chiltons says you need 220 psi cold for reliable cold starting.

For the low cost it may be reasonable to try a cylinder soak. There is also a section of the site that deals with alternative fuels. You may find the best method to attempt this there.

It has been done many times by members posting on this section of the site. The soaking takes time and the block heater should preferably be left on. Soak for about a week and redo a compression check. You of course will have to make up whatever solvent is going past the rings. During the soaking interval.

Miracle mystery oil is one that has been used. Personally I would try to find something more aggressive. Just not sure of exactly what. That is the reason I suggested the alternative fuel posts. What seems to occur is portions of the unburnt wvo get into the ring grooves. Logically mostly in the compression ring lands.

It turns into a sticky fairly strong glue initially I suspect. Then perhaps into carbon. There have even been a few reports that engines that have used wvo on occasion have vertical scoring marks on the liners. I have had some issues with exactly why that occurred.

I have limited abilities. During the wvo craze. I thought a lot of people got aboard. When they did not even have the skill level to deal with problems that develop on engines and systems just using diesel oil.

What a person does with their car is their business. I was just a little sad that their outcome was not really being considered by many of them using it. I understood at the same time the siren call of free fuel was very strong for them.

My approach was somewhat unique instead. I got diesel fuel really cheap during the peak of the craze. That is never going to come my way again. At the present time I pay a little more than 4.00 American for an American gallon of diesel up here in eastern Canada. Basically being about 1.30 Canadian for one liter.

At the same time I thought some might do okay with wvo. By being really thorough. Unlike diesel oil if any air can get to Wvo. A chemical process starts that is going to thicken it and eventually solidify it. So a car using wvo should almost be in constant daily use.

If you are able to restore compression to a reasonable level by soaking. The injection pump and injectors should see a similar cleaning effort. Acetone or laquer thinner are good chemicals for that. Forget using things like diesel purge.

Anyways if you do decide to try and manage to get usable compression back. Post that you did. So options of what to use and how to do it can be obtained from site members. To clean out the injectors and injection pump.

So now it is just a play thing to experiment with.
First, try water injection. I have had success freeing up stuck rings.


Simplest way is to have one person operate the throttle while the other sprays water from a sprayer bottle into the intake. (Don't do it this way with a turbo engine, the water droplets can pit the turbo blades.) Run the engine at 3000 rpm while spraying water. Lots of water mist, not a garden hose stream, you don't want hydro lock, but seeing steam out the exhaust is good. Use this method only if you cannot do the following method.


Second simplest way is using the windshield washer system to pump the water into the intake air stream. You can source a spray nozzle. I just used a small diameter soft copper pipe that I smash down enough to be a nozzle. Make a separate power source for the washer pump with a switch that you can operate while driving. I have found the best results are when I can put the engine under load, up a long incline, at about 3000 rpm ( what ever your car is at 55 to 60 mph ) . Start by running the pump for about 15 seconds at a time. If the motor loses power, you have gone too long. I ran 4 gallons through a motor over 90 miles.


So, run a lot of water through it and see what you got. Nothing to lose at this point. Almost no cost to try this.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/313168-water-injection-cleaning.html

I believe the water injected turns to steam. Steam cleaning has some use on Carbon.

Will it tackle vegetable oil residue? I just do not know. I do suspect it has to be chemically attacked with a solvent. Dissolved and washed out.

Adding a bottle of marvel mystery oil to the engine oil can help this situation. If it is going anywhere with a soak. A small amount will get on the cylinder walls adding the solvent into the ring lands.


Takes substantial miles though and prior indications have to be the earlier soak down really did help the compression.

Cylinder Soaking
 

Yes, this works but as mentioned it takes time and you mustn't skip steps else you'll make things worse .

Marvel Mystery Oil works pretty well but Kano Labs in Tenn. sells better stuff, it *might* be called "KREEM", I've forgotten .

Yes, WVO cokes up and scores cylinders, this was what ruined the engine in my '84 300CD, it was so bad I had to re sleeve the cylinder block to save it (damned hippies) .

If you're planning to save this car it's time to do the long cylinder soak thing and begin looking for a wreck or rusted out parts car as this engine is clearly on it's last legs .

I ran a 240D OM616 with maybe 200 # compression and in California's warmish weather it always started even down to 40 degrees F., I made sure it had good injectors, proper valve adjustment, clean filters and fresh fuel .

It sure was slow though .

Amazing idea! Just read through the thread, very surprised more people dont use water injection.

Would you mind giving me the dummies low down on how to do this? I'm interested as well, my 300SDL shakes and smokes, might as well try this before throwing in the towel.

Read this tread: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/313125-cheap-water-injection.html
The first post on this thread tells you how to do it and the part # for the nozzle. You will not need the pressure switch, just a manual push button will be enough for what you are going to do.

Have to chime in just to agree with my experience a engine with 200-220psi compression will still start no problems with working glow plugs and run just great. Definitely give the water injection a try. I wouldn't write the engine off just yet...

In combination with a fuel system in questionable condition. All bets are off. Both the engine and fuel system need cleaning to find out where you are.

No sense in working the fuel system if some more reasonable compression numbers cannot be gained first. Personally I have a good spare 240d engine.

Even if I did not hopefully I could locate one reasonably priced and in good condition and swap it. If the rest of the car was in reasonable condition.

For a lot of past wvo users the parts of the equation overall just did not add up well. So the cars went to the wreckers.

Easy access to good used components at reasonable prices. For these models is regionally dependent . There is close to nothing left in my region. To add further to the problem. Shipping costs have increased steadily. American buyers have much, much cheaper shipping costs to deal with in general.

What is always an unknown is effective compression at higher than cranking RPMs. For example slightly leaky valves will reduce compression.

Once the engine is running they may function better. Just less time to allow their slow leakages to have as great an impact. .In my early days some well worn engines produced more effective power. Then they ever had when in better condition. Actually this was a good indication they were usually getting near their end of serviceability.

injection pump
 

Greetings!

After a hiatus I was able to come back to this project fresh. Despite relatively low compression numbers, I believe that the engine should be able to start and run. I decided to test the fuel system more thoroughly as follows.

I connected spare injection lines to the IP. Then I connected the injectors to the spare lines so they sprayed outside of the engine into plastic containers where I could watch them. With a friend cranking, (long enough to fill the injection lines), I observed that only the 2nd cylinder injector was spraying. Then, I removed the injectors from the lines and cranked again, noting a squirt of fuel coming from each and every open injector line as the engine cranked. Must be the injectors, right?

Well I contacted my mechanic, who lent me 6 spare used injectors to try out. I replaced ALL 5 and yet again the 2nd line was the only one that sprayed. To be sure, I switched # 2 and 3 injectors, and confirmed 2 was still the only one that sprayed, regardless of what injector was connected to the line.

So working the fuel system from the injectors backward, I believe this test confirms that there is an issue with the pump. Before I tear it out and swap in another and run the test again, what do y'all think? Is my test sound? What would cause the IP to only reach popping pressure on the second line alone? Thanks everyone!

Was the car running on all 5 cylinders when it quit on you? If it was running on all 5 prior to the failure, it's highly unlikely that the IP is the culprit unless you had some truly heinously foul fuel in there.

You have 3 things that can cause failure of high pressure delivery:
- Clog in the system preventing filling of the delivery element
- Scored pumping elements leaking down more than they're pumping
- Stuck or pitted delivery valves that don't maintain pressure in the hard line

It goes without saying, but air in the hard lines can prevent popping the injector. It should bleed out on its own if the IP is pumping fuel.

Sounds like the wvo may have polymerized inside the IP, and that has gummed up the works.

Disconnect the injector hard lines at the IP.
You should get decent fuel flow out of the delivery valves when cranking the engine.
If not, disconnect the glow plug relay and run ATF through the IP.

Let the ATF soak in overnight and repeat with fresh daily ATF soaks in the hopes that you can eventually clear out the gunk.
Might take a week or more to see any positive results.

Diagnosis
 

I love these threads where one looks for really weird issues .

YOU are the on site detective, we can only throw out suggestions based on what we read .

I'd vote that the lift pump is weak and the higher RPM from a pull start brings just enough fuel to the injection pump. As a test that might work, set the injection pump to the run position, run the manual prime then crank.

For a long term fix, I'd use a inline electric pump tied to a 2 terminal oil pressure switch that shuts off when oil pressure is zero and a cranking bypass so it runs while cranking. Even better is tying the bypass to the glow circuit or just a manual prime button.

I put electric pumps on lots of the industrial / construction equipment I work on and found it eliminates a long crank on worn injection systems.

Depending on engine / line size, here is what I use. These are around $ 30 from rock a


AIRTEX E8012S Electric Pump; Solenoid; 12 volts; 5-9 PSI; 30 GHP; 5/16 hose; Domestic Carbureted, 5/16 hose

AIRTEX E8090 "Solenoid; 12 volts; 5-9 PSI; 30 GHP; 3/8 hose; Domestic Carbureted, 3/8 hose"

AIRTEX E8251 Solenoid; 12 volts; 2.5-4.5 PSI; 30 GHP; 5/16 hose; Marine Low Pressure

These fuel systems need a higher feed pressure by design. They will run but not as well as they should on a 5 to 9 pound pump. There is a chance that the animal fats in the fuel you were using have congealed and are obstructing the element loading ports. In the injection pump. Or the lift pump seats are gummed up.

A real soaking of the injection pump is a start. Also that poster is right you have not checked to see if you have any fuel pressure present in the base of the injection pump. Could be the relief valve is gunked up and stuck open.


The injectors are not going to spray if the injection pump elements are not loading. Laquer thinner is my favorite solvent. Take a line from the input of the lift pump. To a container of solvent. Roll the engine over to load up the lift pump and injection pump. With the injector line nuts really loose if you do this. If the solvent level drops it verifies the lift pump is operational.


Or you can load up using the primer pump. When you feel resistance to hand pumping. It means the relief valve is working. Plus the valves in the lift pump are acting as check valves as they should. After a few days use the hand pump to purge the thinner out of the system with diesel oil. With the relief valve removed. So you can see if another soaking is needed. Previous reports of what has come out wherer indeed interesting in the past. Clumps of semi dissolved material sometimes.

That there have been a few individuals that have managed to run vegetable oil for years. This has stopped me in the past from reminding people that there is nothing really free in life out there. Everything seems to have a price one way or another. At least in my experience.

WVO Works for Me!
 

I've been running Waste veggie oil (WVO) for 12 years, UNCONVERTED, over 100K mostly on 2 W123's, but in above freezing weather only.



I have had few problems. One became difficult to start and ran noticeably poorer after about 40K. I took out the injectors and cleaned them as per another thread on the forum, and found that there was some crud on the bottom near the little pin, but the insides were quite clean.


As per another thread, i soaked the rings in Marvel mystery oil for about a week to eliminate possible stuck rings. Ran great after those 2 treatments, and still running fine after another 15K.


Conversions that screw up getting coolant or air in the fuel seem to cause most problems. I also get good quality oil, not cooked to death, and let the WVO settle a good while before filtering to 1 micron. I add about 2 gallons of gasoline per 55 gallon drum, less in hot weather, a little more if it is cold out.


If both these cars died tomorrow, they would have paid for themselves several times over in fuel savings.


This forum has been so helpful and i am very thankful.

This is almost certainly gummed rings, while the engine still runs get a water injection kit fitted -

Devils Own do a kit designed for de-coking engine deposits which is the system I used, after only short while (two trips with water) I decided to swap out the head while re basing the timing, this is what one of the piston tops looked like on OM606 n/a

You can see where the steam has started to eat away at carbon, both around the lip and piston top - for comparison, I had the head off another 606 in the garage with no such colorization.

https://i.postimg.cc/dV4YSVG6/IMG_3617.jpg

Well, I'm doing the best I can to be an effective detective on my end. The ideas and perspective y'all offer do indeed help.

I'm quite sure it's not gummed rings. I have done a cylinder soak over the course of a week and it did not alter the compression numbers. That said, I believe the engine should fire with the compression it does have.

Water injection is not helpful because I can't get the engine to fire up. i am intrigued with the idea, but at the moment it is irrelevant.

As suggested, I flushed the IP by dropping a line from the lift pump into an acetone bottle. I removed the return line from the injection pump to the diesel filter and replaced the check valve with no hose attached. This video I shot today after having cranked a little every day for a week to flush the acetone through little by little. Some gunk did come out, perhaps I just need to run more through? Anything better than acetone? I also cleaned the delivery valves and fitted new copper washers because a few were leaking a little. Now the pump is only firing from line #5. I'm not sure what to make of it.

Here is the video: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VTXZXNZG_5f96WM6sfLzFpr07mv5rRu3/view?usp=sharing

Remove the IP inspection plate and crank the engine to make sure you have movement of all the pump elements.

Rare, but the IP pump's crankshaft could have failed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4KMb8YOr6Y

What does the primer pump feel like? Builds pressure up and you hear a kind of squeal when the relief valve opens?

Statistically it is not likely that four out of five pump elements have failed. Before going further you have to make certain or I would. That the injection pump elements are seeing a fuel supply. Under at least a little pressure. One squirting element is not conclusive. This has been seen before. It always was an end one as well for some unknown reason that squirted.

I am not claiming there is not a major pump issue. Just that you have to have good indications it has fuel under some pressure available in the base of the injection pump. Before moving on.

If it meets the squeal test. Pump the primer pump to pressure and continue to generate the pressure as someone cranks the engine. This verifies if the lift pump is truly functional or not.

Perhaps you have already done something like this. If so ignore my suggestion. Yet confirm you have done at least some test that establishes you have fuel under pressure available to the pumps elements when needed.

Incidentally you are doing fine so far. You have located a real issue as to why it will not run. Moving it past the speculation point.

For what it is worth. Very little I am afraid. Usually it does not turn out to be the injection pump. Odds do increase if WVO is used at the same time. It takes very little pressure to open a delivery valve.

The car was running. Four elements did not conspire to suddenly quit functioning. So there is something else in play. Yes it could be a serious internal failure of the injection pump. Then it may not be. There are enough simple tests available to determine what the problem is .

Well the crank in the injection pump is intact. As number five is the last element it services. There have been instances of front bearing failure but usually you still get some action from several elements near the back of the pump. When you cleaned the delivery valves did you disturb the elements cylinders? If you think you may have it might be advisable to remove the side plate to make sure they are all stlll hooked up properly.


First do some form of fuel availability testing at pressure though before moving on.

Just a note on chemicals in general as well. The activity level of them is temperature dependent. Always far better to be at least 70F degrees or more. Chemical activity rapidly declines below that temperature.

I try not to learn too many things the hard way. For example a cylinder or injection pump soak at say 50F degrees might be almost non productive unless done for months at that temperature.

Still I manage this to from time to time. Painting my old ford half ton many years ago at 60 degrees ambient temperature. Then watching the cured paint falling off as the binders did not function at all at that temperature. Before the paint hardened.

No the paint was not defective. The user being myself was. I knew that before I painted the truck but thought I could get away with it. What I did not comprehend is how the curve of chemical activity versus temperature rolled off so fast.

.Some chemical component in the paint was pretty much inactivated. I would suspect almost totally by the 10F degree temperature reduction.

Try using propane to start it. A propane torch turned on ( and not lit, I didn't think I needed to say that, but.... ) and venting into the intake. Run it for a minute to fill up the intake with gas and then try to start.

A lit propane torch in the intake will work in cold weather, just don't apply the flame to rubber intake tubes. Some industrial engines / tractors have what is called a flame plug. It is an intake air heater with a port / nozzle that burns diesel fuel to assist starting.

I'd apply propane while cranking and regulate it from there.

For worn / low compression engines, just a whiff of starting fluid will get them going just don't run the glow plugs. The key is just small puff then crank. If no start another very slightly longer puff.

Well I confirmed fuel at each delivery valve on the IP when cranking, so I put it all back together and I was able to get the thing to fire up with starting fluid after doing the atf flush of the injection pump. I was able to drive (with lots of smoke) to the gas station and fill up a fresh tank of diesel then take it for a drive up a steep canyon then back down to the house. It did great all drive as far as power/acceleration but it did smoke a lot. Then it died at a stoplight as I tried to take off in first. I was by the house and a nice fellow offered to give us a tow but I couldn't even get it to pull start so he just towed us home.

I will try the propane. I'm wondering if injector nozzles would help with starting as the injectors are more of a squirt than a spray right now, but I have trouble throwing expensive parts at a dying engine. If I can figure out an easy way to get it started I will hold on to the car. But I don't really want to take on an engine replacement right now. Any thoughts on the nozzles?

So unless I'm missing something, it seems like I'm facing a engine rebuild / possibly new pump if I wanted the car to be reliable. The car is an '82 240d with a '79 300d om617 engine. I paid 2,500 for the vehicle without the WVO kit, and have done ample work since I bought it. driveline (new center bearing and flex disks), brakes (new hoses, shoes, pads, rotors, fluid), new tie rods and cv axels, fixed oil leaks with a new waffle oil housing gasket, new oil cooler line. Completely overhauled the diesel tank when I first got it with muriatic acid. Has a new battery with autozone warranty. new glow plugs, rewired a generic ignition relay to a push button. fixed the odometer and clock and bypassed the broken instrument cluster lights switch, have fixed many other little things in the interior as well. Has newish tires. I have put on about 15,000 miles on the thing, but when I got it, the broken odometer was right around 200,000.

The WVO kit has heated hose-on-hose inside heatshrink to a second plastic tank in the trunk that is also heated with coolant. Tank has a sender and gauge. Vormax / racor filter in back, a flat plate heat exchanger under the hood, three hydraforce valves to switch and purge to D2. Also has injection line heaters and a 20amp vegtherm.

Would anybody be interested in purchasing? Car is in SLC, UT. My mechanic has spare engines and pumps and could probably hook them up for cheap as well.

It looks like you're close to the end and are giving up, sorry to hear that ~ now you mention the injectos squirt rather than spray a proper pattern, this is a very bad thing, much mire so with a low compression engine ~ I don't recall your compression test readings but over 200 # and it should start and run O.K. if not great .

Alright folks, it lives! Here's the update for posterity's sake in case anyone happens to be in a similar situation and is looking for insight.

Car sat for about a year until a 300D naturally aspirated showed up on craigslist for parting out. I pulled the injection pump for 100 bucks (sure beat the 1,500 price tag of a pump rebuild). After timing the IP with the drip method, I got the engine to fire up, but only after 30-40 seconds of cranking (not great). Once running there was a distinct misfire and lots of smoke, even after warming up. I put about 2 liters of H20 down the intake (a small trickle of water at high rpms) to no avail. Lots of steam but still misfired and still smoked. So, I decided to send in my injectors to https://dieselfuelinjector.guru/ just to make sure there were absolutely no issues with the fuel system at this point (I had already cleaned the fuel tank and replaced the filter at the bottom of the tank). Mark, the injector guru, said that the nozzles were cheap and one was totally frozen (probably causing the misfire). He installed used german nozzles that were in good condition and balanced the injectors. After getting the rebuilt injectors back, I installed a clear hose from the filter to the IP to be able to check for air intrusion. Purged the hardlines, ran my glow plugs for 30 seconds (they are on a push button with a burly ignition solenoid), and the damn thing started right up, even in cold weather (SLC, UT) without the block heater. It is firing up after 1-2 seconds of cranking, just like it should! However, the exhaust was still smoking. I decided to give the water injection another try now that I had a solid fuel system. After running 2 liters of water down the intake (again), the smoke is almost entirely gone. Most of the smoke cleared up after the first liter but I did another just for good measure.

Also, I didn't know the condition of the original IP or cylinder compression #s when I bought the car. It's possible a lot of the damage was already done before I twin-tanked the car, as the stock tank when I purchased ended up having WVO right in it and sat for 5-7 years. I drove about 300 miles like this before I realized what was happening. The strainer under the tank was totally blocking fuel and I found 1" of rusty oily sludge at the bottom of the tank. Perhaps those miles caused some of the damage to the fuel system.

So the lessons I've learned are:

- if your engine has minimum to low compression (one cylinder was reading 180psi!), it absolutely must have a strong IP and good injectors, but it absolutely can start right up. If its not starting right up, there are other issues besides low compression.
- water injection to decarbonize the combustion chamber resulted in much less smoke out the tailpipe. Installing a system to be able to do water injection periodically on the fly as noted in previous posts is probably a good idea, especially in a WVO or WMO system that could accumulate unburnt fuel deposits if the injectors are wearing. This can happen even with religious purge times and no fuel mixing.
- cranking no-start- my first response to this was to refresh the charging/starting circuit with new grounds, heavy gauge power wires, and replace the starter. This was probably wholly unnecessary as my primary issue was fuel related.
- if you are running WVO or WMO and are starting to have longer cranking times, send your injectors in for a rebuild before they cause unburnt fuel residue to buildup in the combustion chamber and cause damage that will result in low compression.
- If you just bought the car and it had been sitting previously or had an unknown history, pull the fuel tank and clean it before soaking your fuel in a potentially dirty tank that can cause IP issues down the line. I had ignorantly assumed the fuel filters would clean out any impurities in the tank and keep the IP clean- this was not the case.
- This one is still a bit of a mystery for me as I hear much conflicting circumstantial evidence, but one potential conclusion to all this is that settling and filtering WVO is not enough. It must be dewatered somehow, and an onboard de-watering filter like my vormax was not enough. Like I said, hard to know though with so many variables like unknown engine history.

I am curious what my compression numbers are now after doing the water injection... If I do another WVO conversion I will likely do a compression test before the conversion to get a baseline reading.

WD 40 will not damage the engine. Just spray directly into the intake while cranking. It will work if you have good compression but the fuel delivery is failing. Or you can use it to prime your injection pump.

If you stay away from the wvo I bet it will continue to run better and better.

Hindsight is great of course. WVO usage. Destroyed the injection pump, the injectors and the engines compression to some extent. Keeping the car in pretty regular usage is another requirement with this fuel. Strange valve face issues have also been reported.

Unfortuatly a not untypical result. Your compression is probably somewhat higher at this time as well. As I already mentioned nothing is really free in life. It was really bad on this site when the true craze was on.

Over the years I never noticed if anyone had a chemical investigation of their fuel they were using done. Even just for water and glycerin content. Burning waste vegetable oil is a lot different than burning fresh vegetable oil.

I live close enough to a vegetable food freezing and processing plant. If I wanted to burn the waste cooking oil from there. No animal fats would be in it.

Getting There
 

WTH ? .

I tried to post a positive "well done ! " .

Good to hear the outcome, great job!

I did not mean to infer that the thread starter. Did not do a good job at solving the issue. As he did.

I just felt any newcomers to these older diesels should know. Issues can result that are a direct complication of using alternative fuel.

Some seem not to but they have seemed the exception over time. Much of that could just be the source of the used vegetable oil. I really just do not know what is creating the difference.