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-   -   Fram v MANN oil filters (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/398436-fram-v-mann-oil-filters.html)

Mxfrank 04-11-2019 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spock505 (Post 3908812)
Hopefully mine never gets to use the bypass media as changed twice a year, 5k miles max.


There's an unfortunate confusion built into the nomenclature. Your primary filter will be bypassed by a pressure actuated valve if it becomes clogged, allowing unfiltered oil to circulate.

But this is not to be confused with the bypass section of your filter, which is a separate system. The bypass section is constantly in use, providing "slow deep" filtration of a small portion of the oil flow, which is then returned to the pan. The top 2/3 of your oil filter is the bypass section. The idea is that the primary filter can pass large volumes of oil to keep the system pressurized, but can't be very efficient, otherwise it would clog. But the bypass section doesn't have to feed the demands of the engine, so it can have very efficient media and will scrub the oil more slowly and thoroughly. In time, all the oil circulates through the bypass section.

spock505 04-11-2019 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mxfrank (Post 3908869)
There's an unfortunate confusion built into the nomenclature. Your primary filter will be bypassed by a pressure actuated valve if it becomes clogged, allowing unfiltered oil to circulate.

But this is not to be confused with the bypass section of your filter, which is a separate system. The bypass section is constantly in use, providing "slow deep" filtration of a small portion of the oil flow, which is then returned to the pan. The top 2/3 of your oil filter is the bypass section. The idea is that the primary filter can pass large volumes of oil to keep the system pressurized, but can't be very efficient, otherwise it would clog. But the bypass section doesn't have to feed the demands of the engine, so it can have very efficient media and will scrub the oil more slowly and thoroughly. In time, all the oil circulates through the bypass section.

Thanks, that helps clear up the confusion - checked a few videos on the spin on type which seem pretty straightforward as the bypass does just that, bypass the filter element to keep the bearings from seizing.

In essence the lower part of folded fabric is for higher viscosity (cold) oil to pass through similar to bypass mentioned in below link, as the oil thins it can then enter the spun cotton portion?

The difference being no physical valve.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecpkvsnKKNg

tangofox007 04-11-2019 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spock505 (Post 3908872)

In essence the lower part of folded fabric is for higher viscosity (cold) oil to pass through similar to bypass mentioned in below link, as the oil thins it can then enter the spun cotton portion?

No. If the oil is too viscous to pass through the pleated filter, a bypass valve in the filter housing (not the filter element) routes oil directly to the oil galleries. Otherwise, all oil enroute to the galleries passes through the pleated element. Oil passing through the bypass portion of the filter is returned to the oil pan, rather than being routed directly to the oil galleries.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spock505 (Post 3908872)


The difference being no physical valve.

There is a physical bypass valve. It's located in the filter housing, rather than being incorporated into the filter itself, as is the case with many spin-on filters.

lupin..the..3rd 04-11-2019 10:16 AM

As infrequently as filters are changed, once or twice per year, I stick with OE from the dealer. Too much shady cost-cutting with the non Genuine filters. With all the globalization, mergers, subcontracting, etc. one brand/model filter that was good last year might be crap this year. Same looks same packaging but comes from a different factory. I would not rely on that media comparison thread from 2006 to be accurate in 2019. You can't go wrong with OE, and given the importance of the oil filter's role, I don't mind paying the five dollar premium or whatever to buy a Genuine part.

Zulfiqar 04-11-2019 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OM617YOTA (Post 3908668)
I cut open a bunch of the other filters. The sticks and bugs and rocks and cotton field mowings didn't bother me at all - if it works and is cheap I'm game. What did bother me was that the filters were so poorly constructed that said debris was escaping the filter cartridge. Unacceptable.

I'm aware that millions of engines have gone probably billions of miles on the filters full of cotton field mowings without issue. Best practices and personal feelings aside, real world experience has shown this to be a non-issue.

I still ain't doing it.

I run Baldwin P102 or Hastings LF380 oil filters. They may not be better constructed, but there are no field mowings to leak out.


The floor sweepings media works good - (benz have millions of miles on them to prove that). And to be honest its a very "green" filter (our cars are very eco freindly :D)

As long as I owned my diesel W124, it got MANN filters or hastings (if found cheaper on ebay - like bent boxes etc) - they worked super. I did encounter one filter which literally was shedding the floor sweep media so I binned it.

Mxfrank 04-11-2019 10:41 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by lupin..the..3rd (Post 3908892)
As infrequently as filters are changed, once or twice per year, I stick with OE from the dealer. Too much shady cost-cutting with the non Genuine filters. With all the globalization, mergers, subcontracting, etc. one brand/model filter that was good last year might be crap this year. Same looks same packaging but comes from a different factory. I would not rely on that media comparison thread from 2006 to be accurate in 2019. You can't go wrong with OE, and given the importance of the oil filter's role, I don't mind paying the five dollar premium or whatever to buy a Genuine part.


That's nice. Your '98 E300 filter doesn't have the separate bypass section.

lupin..the..3rd 04-11-2019 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mxfrank (Post 3908908)
That's nice. Your '98 E300 filter doesn't have the separate bypass section.

Thanks. My comment was not vehicle specific.

jbach36 04-11-2019 10:46 PM

Here's a good video of some generic filters cut open
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTNJLEV8CG8

spock505 04-12-2019 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tangofox007 (Post 3908885)
No. If the oil is too viscous to pass through the pleated filter, a bypass valve in the filter housing (not the filter element) routes oil directly to the oil galleries. Otherwise, all oil enroute to the galleries passes through the pleated element. Oil passing through the bypass portion of the filter is returned to the oil pan, rather than being routed directly to the oil galleries.



There is a physical bypass valve. It's located in the filter housing, rather than being incorporated into the filter itself, as is the case with many spin-on filters.


Are you sure this is how it works for the 605/6 type filters, seems a little complicated ? - what's to stop oil passing through both the pleated element and hidden cotton balls, the tube runs right through the middle on these filters with no obvious mechanism to divert.

Does the oil not just pass up through the middle exiting folded element part when cold, moving up to the use entire filter when hot - if filter gets blocked then valve bypasses the filter draining back down to pan.

The cartridge filters differ with oil pump to the inside out as opposed to outside in fir spin-on.

- just watched that last video, no way I am buying a Fram filter !!:eek:

t walgamuth 04-12-2019 07:52 AM

I always liked the look of the Ferrari v12s with two Fram filters up top in front....so I like to buy Frams and channel Ferrari.

Besides I like Orange.

tangofox007 04-12-2019 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spock505 (Post 3909114)
Are you sure this is how it works for the 605/6 type filters, seems a little complicated ?

My comments were applicable to engines which utilize a two-stage oil filter, like the ones that you posted pictures of in post #1.

Perhaps you need to decide if you are inquiring about specific oil filters or specific engines.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spock505 (Post 3909114)

The cartridge filters differ with oil pump to the inside out as opposed to outside in fir spin-on.

Really?


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