W123 rear hood hing bolt crisis - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Madmax55 · #1 06-03-2019, 08:08 AM

I don't post here enough anymore but constant lurker

hopefully the experts here can help!

I have a problem that's pretty dire. The driver side bolt that holds the rear part of the hood hinge to the body has come out.

Problem is, it appears there are no threads in the hole. This has me thinking the bolt rattled in there for some time and hollowed out the hole or whatever nut with threads that was back there has fallen into the body.

Now i manged to stick the short end of an allen wrench into the hole and used the long end as a brace to act like a bolt against the body. hood works for now. Not a long term fix as if it fell into the hinge pocket hood would be messed up again.

See the pictures, and don't mind that i put the stupid washer on the allen wrench, service no purpose

Also note you cannot access this hole from inside the car or the air vent.

Looking at the EPC you can see the bolt, weird washer and 2 smaller washings but the bolt has nothing to screw into so I'm at a loss.

Please help!!!

PS only solution i thought was to have a bolt head welded into the hold and then slide the hinge over it and tighten with a nut. . .not sure its ideal.

Madmax55 · #2 06-03-2019, 08:10 AM

literally right after posting this im thinking could it be that the brass washer thing gets hammered into the body and creates the threads i need?

BWhitmore · #3 06-03-2019, 08:53 AM

I think you may be referring to a thread repair item called a Time Sert which is installed by drilling out the existing hole oversized, tapping the new hole with the Time Sert tap, screwing in the Tume Sert which then provides new threads in the proper size.The problem you may have is enough access to drill out the existing hole and the tapping the hole. Your other option, as mentioned, is to weld the proper size nut over the existing hole (hopefully you have strong unrusted metal surrounding the damaged hole).

Madmax55 · #4 06-03-2019, 08:58 AM

no im not referring to that repair method although it would/could be possible.

I am really trying to figure out how and to what that bolt screws into? the hole is there but cant tell if its hollowed out or not.

Sugar Bear · #5 06-03-2019, 09:15 AM

Wouldn't expect the brass to be threaded, guessing that the brass would be a bushing instead.

Could a through bolt and nylon locking nut or a fender clip washer nut keeping the brass as a bushing work?

Good luck!!!

barry12345 · #6 06-03-2019, 09:18 AM

Not sure if this applies. Common for the last hinge point to rust solid with no lubrication and tear the part including a small amount of the sheet metal out. I only repaired one.

Plus one side is harder to do than the other I thought at the time. It almost sounds like you might be dealing with a repair of a previous repair. It has been a long time but I just do not remember a bolt situation. A visual comparison with the other side may help. The car I did was a 1977 300d. I believe.

I have since made it a habit to lubricate the very last hinge pin area on the other similar cars. It is easily missed because it is not that easy to access. While doing the others. Again I may be out in left field or you have a different hinge setup.

All I really remember is it was hard to do a weld repair after unseizing the rusted together parts. Not impossible but just somewhat hard to get to.

I do see you have a 123type. Again I remember there was a stud welded to the body. It went through the bushing in the last hinge point. That was secured by a cir clip type of fastening to retain the hinge. I am pretty positive about that. That stud and the sheet metal it is mounted to just tear out together. Not from rust at their location. Just from the enormous force that is applied to them when seized together from the mechanical leverage of the long hood.

What I was totally aware of though was others would have this happen and at the time and suggested lubricating periodically. Time has proven this right. I can only repeat what I mentioned when I started this post.

Have a close look at the other similar hinge point. Your description of the issue does not sound right to me somehow. You may be dealing with some form of previous repair. I can forget many things over the long years. At the same time certain things get impressed into your mind because of the difficulty at the time. Or the system got changed from the 1977 model I did. There has to be some reason this does not sound right to me.

I have given due consideration to the possibility of my memory or mind has failed. Deciding that you cannot lose what you never had and posted.

BWhitmore · #7 06-03-2019, 09:41 AM

Another good practice is to clean out the hinge pockets on a regular basis (vacuum, power wash, etc.). The hinge pockets do have drain holes and it is important they these holes are clear of any debris. I found that the best lube for the hinge points is WD40. When grease is used as a lube it will attract dirt and grime. IIRC the Time Sert thread repair is made of brass.

Madmax55 · #8 06-03-2019, 09:51 AM

Thanks guys specifically Barry,

I do clean out the pockets often and lube everything regularly so this was surprise to me.

Both sides of my car and the EPC show a bolt holding that part of the hinge into the body of the car.

just strange there seem to be no threads in the hole. What kind of a stud are you referring to?

Madmax55 · #9 06-03-2019, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BWhitmore

Another good practice is to clean out the hinge pockets on a regular basis (vacuum, power wash, etc.). The hinge pockets do have drain holes and it is important they these holes are clear of any debris. I found that the best lube for the hinge points is WD40. When grease is used as a lube it will attract dirt and grime. IIRC the Time Sert thread repair is made of brass.

Ahh ok now i know what you mean about the time sert, i was referring to the brass spacer that is a part of the parts for this part of the car.

Father Of Giants · #10 06-03-2019, 10:01 AM

I use purple extreme chain lube.

It's clean, clear, doesn't attract dirt and last a while. It's also great for throttle linkages.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDtDIcLOTnU

Madmax55 · #11 06-03-2019, 10:47 AM

can anyone confirm what should be in the hole? threads? something else?

both sides of my car have/had a bolt and the EPC shows a bolt.

just need help figuring that out then repairs can be started.

Thank you

Madmax55 · #12 06-04-2019, 07:42 AM

anyone? Please help

barry12345 · #13 06-04-2019, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madmax55

Thanks guys specifically Barry,

I do clean out the pockets often and lube everything regularly so this was surprise to me.

Both sides of my car and the EPC show a bolt holding that part of the hinge into the body of the car.

just strange there seem to be no threads in the hole. What kind of a stud are you referring to?

It is like a flat headed bolt but with no threads. There is a channel cut into it near the end to retain the clip. For some reason I am unable to give it the proper name. Perhaps a stud? Anyways it is welded to the inner fender or part of the cowl by the head of it.

For the other poster. Using wd40. I do not consider it a true lubricant. It has some uses. And truthfully I use it on occasion as well.

Yet as a reasonably longer term lubricant or even short term I believe it has no place.

It would penetrate better into the space between the bushing and stud. But following it after with some form of oil is required in my opinion. The hood is not opened often enough for any dirt accumulation in the oil to be of any signifigant wear concern.

People in general buy wd40 because it is both well known and cheap. More a cheap solvent based product than a lubricant. Again just in my opinion.

I also believe they may have changed the base chemical some years back. I have found it far too flammable to be considered an oil. No big deal though at the same time.

People that ignore lubricating that hard to get to point on both sides. Can get into a world of trouble eventually. The additional loading with a seizing bearing transfers to a lot of stress on the hinge itself as well. Possibly distorting it over time. As well as a piece of the sheet metal and stud being torn out of the body metal when it totally seizes.

You do have to pull the battery to get it lubricated on one side I think I remember. You can get the weld into the area using very small diameter stick welding rods. Required as you are welding thinner sheet metal plus the length of the rod gives access. There is no room to get a mig head in there I believe. .

Remember this episode in my case was well over twenty years ago. So every last detail is not registering in my mind. It was just more miserable than memorial at the time.

The break for the poster may be his stud is still there and somehow the retaining clip came off the end. He may have an easy repair.

For clarity what I have been discussing is at the very end of the hood hinges. Plus if you did not pull the battery to lubricate it previously it would have been very hard to get that side lubricated at the last hinge position.