Can't get engine to spin??

[tdoublenastywitit]

So I got a 617 engine in a barn find a few years back as a package deal with another car.

Finally got on an engine stand. Had to cut the torque converter off with a hot saw to do this lol, cuz I couldn't get the engine to spin to get the mounting bolts off.

At that point I thought I just didn't have enough torque cuz it was on a hoist and the engine would just move on chain when I cranked on it.


I just don't imagine this engine siezed from sitting in a barn forever. I want to pull the head and look at the cylinders but I can't get the chain to TDC do so. One person suggested I pull the glow plugs and squirt a little ATF in the cylinders for they may just be kinda stuck. Not sure if that's smart tho.


I've cracked the valve cover and the lower oil pan and none of the internals have any rust or oxidation on them (the outside definitely does)


If anyone had any ideas lemme know. Would love to get this turn, so I can have something to wrench on, on the weekends.

[Diseasel300]

If it got moisture in the cylinders, there may be enough surface rust to seize it solid. A 50/50 mix of Acetone/ATF may help free up varnish or sludge enough to get it to turn. It may not. Patience is required with a stuck engine. If you have rust in the cylinders or if it truly is stuck, be prepared for a scrap engine.

[vwnate1]

The ports don't look good but give it a go .

The 50/50 mix works really well, I use KROIL, in the past I've un stuck old air cooled VW engines using fresh Diesel fuel.....

As mentioned, you have to have patience and BE GENTLE ~ use a long cheater on the crank bolt and work it back and forth, forth and back ~ the *instant* you feel resistance, STOP and reverse the turning direction, keep doing this until you get a 360 degree rotation .

[barry12345]

Engines will and do seize from sitting. It is just the nature of them. Start soaking the cylinders and be patient.

A mixture of Automatic transmission fluid and acetone at fifty/fifty should help. As mentioned.

Chemical action falls off below 70 degrees remember. Yet increases at higher temperatures. Plugging in the block heater periodically can help. With coolant in the water jacket. Or a radiant heat bulb.


I would load an oil can with it. Give each cylinder a squirt or two each day. It can take some time. Use the glow plug holes.

Some moisture internally has been involved. See the rust on the last two cam lobes. Also I always thought the north west area of America was probably a humid region. Probably no way to find out the story on the engine unfortunately.

[t walgamuth]

Everybody pretty much covered it. I will only emphasize to be careful on the crank bolt. You can break them off fairly easily.

I agree the ports don't offer any help. Looks like it might have been underwater with the manifold off. I'd pull the pan and look at the bottom end too.

[tdoublenastywitit]

So thru the glow plug hole with the acetone mixture sounds good?? I already have the Injectors off, will it work the same if I pour it in thru there??

And how much per cylinder? I was thinking an oz per, or is that too much, too little??


Ya I'm worried about the bolt. Hope I didn't busy it already... Wasn't being very patient or gentle the first go around lol.


And yes the ports are full of rusty dirt. I've been pipe cleaning them, blowing them with compress air, and praying in parts cleaner to clean them out.

But I have a remachined re built head sitting on the shelf, that's the other reason I wanna see if I can get this thing to break free, would love to be able to rebuild it in my spare time. But like I said, I'm not sure if I can safely pull the head without being able to get the chain to TDC etc etc


Ok last thing. How can I figure out if this is a turbo or NA pump looks like an NA to me could be wrong tho.
Anyone know the part number of the turbo diesel block So I can compare to the stamp I got.

[Maximan1]

Devil's advocate - maybe the engine was sitting in the barn becauee it was seized?

[tdoublenastywitit]

Originally Posted by Maximan1

Devil's advocate - maybe the engine was sitting in the barn becauee it was seized?

Ya.... Starting the think the same thing...

This thing like literally won't budge... With a 5 foot cheater bar it won't budge. Plus this POS harbor freight engine stand just twists and bows when I really crank on it.

I pulled the pan today. There is some rust on the connecting rods so there must some rust in the cylinders but I don't really see much.

And so cool I can slam a lot of the dragons blood thru the injector holes cuz the oz or 2 I squirted in there only dropped down one side and that's not gonna do nothing.

Here's some thumbnails

[Mxfrank]

Or maybe an injector leaked and it's fluid locked. In any event, pulling the injectors is a good start.

You can safely pull the head in any crank position, the problem will be getting everything back to the right position for reassembly. You'd have to time it from scratch.

[Mike D]

Don't worry about over filling it. You can't hydro-lock it with the injectors out. Fill it up with the mixture (I call it "Dragon's Blood") and let it sit for a few days, replenishing the fluid as needed. Good luck.

Follow Nate's procedure.

[tdoublenastywitit]

Ok here Is my next question...

Currently have the cylinders soaking in penetrating solution.

Although after doing more "Google'ing" I've found that most often only a couple pistons are actually stuck and not all 5. Which makes the fight harder than it needs to be.

So I'm thinking of disconnecting the pistons from the crank and working them one at a time, which leads me to my questions...

#1 How do I got about disconnecting from the crank? Pull the pan, unbolt the 12 points on the connecting rods and done?? Or am I missing something?

#2 people say to take a 1 inch by 1 foot or so wooden dowel, but it to the bottom of the pistons and beat on it with a sledge hammer... I dunno this seems kind of barbaric to me, is this the correct method.

#3 if I do end up doing each piston at a time how would I get them all back perfectly into place in the correct firing order? How would I know when to stop pushing on them, is there something that will stop it before it slams into the head, with the crank being disconnected? And lastly do you think it would still take a lot of force to pull them back down, away from the head, if only working one piston at a time? (Ex pulling with some sort crowbar type thing from the end of the connecting rod, using leverage)

#4 seems to me this would be best to do with the engine.upside down on the stand, thus all my penetrating solution would leak out before the piston is completely free. Any ideas on a solution for this?


#5 IS THIS THE DUMBEST IDEA IN THE WORLD?? Is it not worth the extra effort of disconnecting everything and getting the pistons back into the correct firing order and location when done? Is beating on my pistons with a sledge hammer possibly gonna destroy them? Had anyone done it like this before?

After spelling all that out in a post I'm leaning towards just using patients and keeping the crank connected. But would like opinions from anyone who has done it like this before and/or who has disconnected and reconnected the pistons from the crank, who could speak on the process.

[Mike D]

The correct answer is #5!!!! Bashing on the connecting rods would indeed be the dumbest idea in the world. Not only would you be risking smashing the piston crowns into the cylinder head surface but you also stand a good chance of breaking the lands on the pistons.

[vwnate1]

Unless you plan to discard the pistons, don't hammer them .

Yes, it's possible to undo the connecting rods and discern which cylinder(s) are are actually stuck but I feel you're hoping to make this lump run again at low co$t so have patience and keep at it with the penetrant .

[Diseasel300]

If the engine is really that stuck, it's either already burnt up (and that's why it's sitting), or the rust internally is bad enough that it's junk anyway.

[tdoublenastywitit]

OK ya i had a hinkering the hitting the pistons with a dowel idea was stupid...

This idea came from a honda forum, along with other ideas such as.... Put the engine on a hoist, pull the pan, and dunk into a 50 gallon tote full of carb cleaner...


and yes I understand that getting this hunk of scrap metal to run again is a long shot. I also understand by the time Im done messing with it at a >50% chance of actually getting to hear it run. That my time in labor will exceed the cost of me just going to Craigslist and buying a running engine.

But this project is really just something to do, to keep me busy, just for fun.

Work in the concrete trade is slow in the winter and I get a mean case and cabin fever and anxiety if I dont stay busy in the down time.


So im going with soak and spin all 5 method, and im going to patient and cross my fingers. And hopefully 6 months from now im gonna upload a video of this hunk of crap running.