1982 240D head pulled now what!?

[indybenz]

Hello


So I brought this 1982 240d 4 speed manual to Indiana from Scotland.


It has never overheated since I've owned it and driven it, but there is a chance it was overheated a long....long....long time ago. It sat for many years and was hardly driven til I purchased it and I have zero maintenance history with it.


That said, it had good compression when recently tested (last year...several hundred miles ago).


I have not ever overheated it, assuming the temp gauge is good.


It has good power...for a 240d I have been surprised.


The only reason I pulled the head is that the water pump was squealing so I went to replace it. When I removed the radiator drain plug BLACK OIL came out. Not a little bit. A lot.



And every time I removed a hose where coolant might have been: OIL. Thick black oil.


The inside of the rubber hoses are caked with oil and years of junk.


I pulled the head, and the rotten egg smell was disgusting.


But it is not immediately apparent whether the head gasket was bad or there is a more sinister problem.



Is there a way to tell? Do I clean the head myself and look for cracks?



It really seems like there is a crack in the block somewhere, permitting the oil to mix with coolant.


ALSO, I never added coolant when in Scotland. Only water. This car has no expansion tank so I was never quite sure what the water/coolant levels were, but again it never overheated and always ran at the appropriate temps.


My plan has always been to pull this engine while it was RUNNING and in decent shape and sell it and the 4 speed manual to fund the engine swap I'm doing HERE.



Suggestions as to what's next are welcome.

-Clean the head myself and look for cracks? I'm really not interested in pulling the rest engine and paying to have the block tested. Once the engine is out it staying out and the OM605 is going in.
-Throw a new head gasket on it and see?
-part out the om616 and associated parts? (any buyers?)


TIA
Jon in Indy

[Sugar Bear]

Have the head pressure tested for cracks, checked for straightness and vacuum test the valves.

Examine the block closely first for signs of leakage, then clean the block and examine it for cracks. Check the block for straightness.

If no cracks and things are straight I'd put valve seals and a head gasket on it and hope for the best.

Add a cooling system cleaner such as Dawn or something that dissolves grease and run it. If it runs ok, get the cooling system clean first, change the hoses and drive on.

That's my $0.02 in USD. Good luck!!!

[vwnate1]

I don't see why you pulled the head, if any water/coolant had reached the combustion chamber you'd know : it wouldn't be black with carbon .

Adding only water was a serious mistake, the radiator is likely ruined beyond repair and the water jacket will be seriously corroded, all this could have been easily addressed with the engine in the car .

Keep us posted .

I hope the rest of the car is nice.....

Pictures would help here .

[indybenz]

Pulled head because oil in coolant. That's pretty much what 99% of research shows to be blown head gasket.

Engine is still in the car.

This is my first 'take an engine apart' rodeo so some accommodation for my situation is appreciated.

I assumed when I bought the car (February 2021) that it had coolant in it. Any water I added was minimal although I don't know how many ounces/liters.

Living in Scotland where it rarely froze much led me to think water was ok, but perhaps I'm a dumb dumb for thinking that. Fair dos.

VW Nate you're following this car on my swap thread linked in the first post up above.

What pictures would you like? I have loads but didn't want to blow up this thread.

I still don't know why there is so much oil in the coolant chambers. Could a 'blown' head gasket do this?

The rest of the car is fair. Lots of the usual rust, and needs gaskets, rust repair, bushings, etc etc, but it's what was available in Scotland at the time for what I could get away with 'on the sly'. It's not my first old W123 and I've rebuild/refreshed the front suspension and braking system so it goes straight and stops...key for bopping up and down the road.

My partner was exceedingly unhappy with the purchase but there you go. £2600 for what seemed to be a decent example...but it's quite rusty in the usual spaces and also the not-so usual spaces. It had a respray and was not done well, so there are wee rusty bits all over the paint.

A compression check showed (can't remember exactly) around 350psi on all 4 cylinders when I got it and I ran injection pump cleaner through it. It did not excessively smoke, although the oil cap dances pretty good indicating some amount of blow by.

This is a project car for me, the goal to build the only (that I know of) RHD W123 superturbodiesel with an OM605, mechanical pump w 7.7mm elements and 5 speed manual in North America. It's not to be a show car, but a project I can be proud of, warts and all, with very limited resources of time, money and energy. All the work is done between raising a family, working several part time jobs, taking care of the house, blah blah American dream blah ;-)

Anyway it sounds like I won't be able to test the block while it's in-situ and I have no desire to pull it and pay to have it tested just to put it back in, when the next engine going back in is the 605. The point of this post was to ask whether the block can be tested in situ and whether a head gasket replacement ($65) will buy me more time/miles while I'm preparing for the swap.

Thanks for reading and over the past decade I've enjoyed this forum!

[indybenz]

Originally Posted by Sugar Bear

Have the head pressure tested for cracks, checked for straightness and vacuum test the valves.

Examine the block closely first for signs of leakage, then clean the block and examine it for cracks. Check the block for straightness.

If no cracks and things are straight I'd put valve seals and a head gasket on it and hope for the best.

Add a cooling system cleaner such as Dawn or something that dissolves grease and run it. If it runs ok, get the cooling system clean first, change the hoses and drive on.

That's my $0.02 in USD. Good luck!!!

Thank you! So, examine as in do a thorough visual inspection? I'm assuming without a 'Honey I shrunk the kids' ray gun that I'll not be able to see inside the block very well to inspect that area. Can one fill up the coolant chambers, blocking off all exit points, and see if it holds coolant? Or would a crack need more pressure to show up?

[Sugar Bear]

Yes a thorough visual inspection.

Yes you can fill the passages then watch and wait but it's by no means an "acid test." You could increase the chance of detecting a crack slightly by using hot water. If I had to guess the block is not cracked as long as it never froze. If it was cracked due to an overheat the compression would also have decreased and the cylinder walls would be blued. In general those blocks are about as tough as they come.

About the cooling system I've seen systems turn black in color and smell particularly if they sit with only water. Coolant is necessary to prevent corrosion. Just had amazing results cleaning a water only system with CRC ThermoCure (multiple applications).

Replace the valve seals while the head is off. Do them one at a time and put each valve back where it came from.

Could be wrong but look between the timing chain cavity and the #1 cylinder. The metal looks different there as it goes towards the first cooling system passage on the right side of the block. That could indicate a breech in the head gasket that connected oil to coolant. Oil would move toward the coolant as it's under higher pressure. How does the crankcase oil look?

Good luck!!!

[Sugar Bear]

Post pics of both sides of the head gasket without cleaning it first.

[indybenz]

Here is a link to the album which also includes images of the injectors 3 of which had oil on the tips and one had fuel on the tip, and all looked coked with carbon. Not sure how they even worked with that much on them!

https://app.photobucket.com/u/northy_polk/a/c3705d41-1d1a-4c53-aac8-bea5a355162b

Let me know if you can't see the images. I wiped the head gasket off to take images of it. it also got 'caught' on one of the head bolts when I was removing it, so it's a tiny bit bent and perhaps some oil also dribbled onto it when removing it.

[indybenz]

Originally Posted by Sugar Bear

...

Could be wrong but look between the timing chain cavity and the #1 cylinder. The metal looks different there as it goes towards the first cooling system passage on the right side of the block. That could indicate a breech in the head gasket that connected oil to coolant. Oil would move toward the coolant as it's under higher pressure. How does the crankcase oil look?

Good luck!!!

Here's a close up of that area. Now that I look it does seem suspect.

[indybenz]

Head gasket cylinders 1 & 2 bottom side (not sure if you count from front to back or vv, but closest to water pump). It's quite large when you open it.

And here is 3 & 4 bottom side

And 1 & 2 top side

and 3 & 4 top side

[indybenz]

And perhaps this image of the head seems suspicious, but just looks like some of the gasket got 'melted' to the head between cylinders 1 & 2 on the fuel pump side. As I said above this is all new to me!

[Sugar Bear]

IMO, although no guarantee, it's worth the gamble of checking all that you can, cleaning it well and replacing the head gasket to see if it runs.

You'll very likely have to retime the injection pump. The process seems daunting but if you do it one step at a time it's very doable.

Good luck!!!

[indybenz]

Originally Posted by Sugar Bear

About the cooling system I've seen systems turn black in color and smell particularly if they sit with only water. Coolant is necessary to prevent corrosion. Just had amazing results cleaning a water only system with CRC ThermoCure (multiple applications).

Thanks I'll take a look. Seems like it just 'sits' in there, rather than putting everything back together and running the engine to get it all inside all the other passages.

[indybenz]

The question then also becomes do I rebuild the vac pump, pull the pre-chambers, re-nozzle the injectors, etc etc etc.?! I have a new water pump and a front crank seal and Kent Bergsma's special tools to do thate job, so I'll do that along with the head gasket...but all the other stuff I'm just not sure is worth the $$$.

Why might I need to re-time the pump?

[Sugar Bear]

How many miles?

Injection pump timing? It looks as though the chain etc. weren't locked in place before disassembly. It can move rather easily without being detected.

All the other work? I'd get it running first.