Does this sound right? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

JPL · #1 07-10-2002, 01:25 PM

Hello all;

Got my AC checked out today ~ I'm in sticker shock. Please let me know if I should go for it or not.

Problems: AC not blowing cold, loose belt, low freon

Diagnosis reveals:
Leaking at Compressor

Leak at Suction Hose/Pressure Hose (Manifold Hose)
Leaking at junction of hoses at condensor.

Shop want to replace:
Compressor
O-rings
Reciever/Dryer
Manifold Hose
Belt
Dye and Freon

And heres the big pill ~ $1500. which is 60% of what I paid for the car !

Should I just live without AC? Do you think that's a reasonable price for that work? Should I go to an Auto-AC-only shop and get a 2nd opinion? Any Climate Control guys on this forum in PA/NJ that want a side job?

Please give me some feedback on this.

Thanks,
James

jcyuhn · #2 07-10-2002, 02:49 PM

Sounds a bit high, but that's also the going rate for a/c repair these days. There are a couple of options you can take to save some money.

First off, is do-it-yerself. You can save paying for both the shop's labor and their parts markup (yes, they mark the parts up well above what you can purchase them for on the open market). I'm not sure whether your car has a York or Delco a/c compressor, but regardless the price is $150-$250 for a good quality replacement unit. The York is particularly inexpensive.

The manifold hoses are outrageously expensive - several hundred dollars. But they can be rebuilt - the rubber hoses are replaced, the metal portions retained. My local a/c shop charges about 60 bucks for this service - good as new. This should be an option whether you have the shop perform the repair or not.

The dryer is about a $30 part. Everything else - except R-12 refrigerant - is incidental. O-rings are so cheap my local stores just give them away rather than charge for them.

It's possible (and easy) to bolt in the new parts yourself, then take the car to an a/c pro to have the system vacuumed and charged. Assuming the shops' diagnosis is correct, you could get back on the road with cold air for perhaps 500-600 bucks that way.

JPL · #3 07-11-2002, 08:21 AM

jcyuhn:

Thanks for the tips. I think its the Delco (engine 617.912). I'll have to check my manual again. I thought about relplacing the parts myself as well. I could put them in at my own pace, then have a shop vac and charge.

You are right on about the parts prices, (my shop tried to get 18 bucks for a wiper blade ! But I dont wanna trash the shop cause they are very good, albiet expensive), especially that manifold hose. I think FastLane wants 190 for it, and I think they have good prices.

There is a little bit of freon still in the system. It cools slightly when using the Bi-Level setting. Do you think I need to have the remaining freon released before I begin the DIY job? Can I just work on the components with the freon still in the system?

I think of myself as a beginner to intermediate DIYer. Do you think this job is 'too big'?

Is it possible to replace parts in a charged system? (and keep the charge) I.E. the manifold hose, then later on the reciever/dryer, then the compressor, etc? I realize this is a bit more work cause you have to manipulate the compressor a bit to replace the manifold hose, but is it possible to work with a charged system safely?

I also thought of just going to an AC shop (that does not know about the leak) and have them charge it. Doing the math: 3 lbs of freon @ $50 # = $150. So, I could do that every year for 10 years until I exceeded the repair quote.

Again, thanks for the tips.

CHAPP · #4 07-11-2002, 08:33 AM

I payed about $1000 and got everything but the condensor, and the evaporator. Works great worth every penny.

84' 300SD 301,000

tstarr · #5 07-11-2002, 10:15 AM

James,

I'm sure you're going to have to evacuate the system before replacing the hoses and compressor. I'm torn on my system right now because I just decided to let the A/C shop install the compressor and I have a pound of Freon sitting there that I'm going to have to have evacuated before proceeding further.
I would definitely take the route of installing what parts I knew needed to be replaced (plus maybe a few small ones that you're not sure about), then taking it to the shop. Evacuating and paying for Freon that you end up having to evacuate gets very expensive. But I kick myself every time I get lazy and let the shop install a part I could install myself. I see the bill and want to brain myself.
I'm trying to use the shops, especially A/C shops, for things that I can't do myself. Buying and bolting on a compressor is fairly straightforward. You'll get hit with enough when they purge and refill the system.

Plus, if I'm not mistaken, the shop is not allowed to fill a leaky system with Freon, so your "fill it as it leaks" scenario is no longer available (thank you, EPA!).

leathermang · #6 07-11-2002, 10:29 AM

JPL,(IMO) some things don't make sense in this situation. If they checked your system and found those leaks then they should not have put any freon back into your system. They should have put freon in your system in order to check for leaks... then taken all of it out when they found multiple leaks... and if they are good , record the amount and give you credit for it when you start to refill ... if you do it with them.
So you may have your system in shape for you to do the stuff yourself.
Always get a second opinion if it is feasible.
You can not work on the system with it charged, and it would be dangerous to try....
I like the idea of flushing the system since in the past when I did this I got crude out on the white cloth I used to catch the flush.. this even though I had not had a catastrophic failure like the compressor or dessicant giving way... some people feel that if you have not had that then you do not need to flush. But I think it helps in the determination of the amount of refrigerant oil,,, and the cleanliness of it when you start back up... you will be discarding a certain amount with items like the reciever/dryer anyway..
As your first time with this stuff, if you do it yourself I very much recommend a 'supervisor' for your safety. You can blind or freeze yourself with small lapses of knowledge or attention.. I won't go into how easy that is... take my word on that one....
No shop in their right mind would put freon into your system with even one documented leak. It will not stay and they risk too much in fines.

Your idea of being able to replace some items without evacuating the system is a good one... but they have not provided the means for that.

I am considering placing valves before and after my reciever/dryer so I can do exactly that on a regular basis.... but none exist on any car that I have ever heard of presently...

TCane usually uses BandG refridgerant oil for r12 systems.. Carlisleautoair.com is where I am getting my stuff for my ford pickup right now.. they are in San Antonio and have lots of specific auto knowledge... I got my expansion valve and reciever from Fastlane....for the 240d. I am using the castrol premium refrigerant oil... and I talked to Carlisle about the Nylog sealant ( I am a goo enthusiast ) but they said only use a drop of r12 oil on the seals... so that is what I am going to do.... ... Greg

deluvak · #7 07-11-2002, 11:56 AM

Last April I had the compressor and receiver/dryer replaced on my '85 300D. The bill for the A/C service was about $880 which included $150 for 3 pounds of R-12. I forget which brand of compressor it took. This work was done at Mitch Carr's, an independent Benz garage in Kensington, Maryland, which is a close-in suburb of DC. At first this seemed like a lot of money, but after the scorching weather we've had lately it seems very well spent. But $1500 is another story. I would definitely check around for another estimate.

Dan

JPL · #8 07-11-2002, 01:53 PM

leathermang;

Thanks for the advice. Allow me to clear up what I may have left as a bit of confusion. The ACC cooled slightly on Bi-Level BEFORE I had the shop check things out. I have not tried to run the AC since then, so I don't know if they put the freon back. Chances are they did not, because they are very 'by the book'. When I asked about just charging it up, the foreman told me exactly what tstarr had said, in that they cannot charge a system that they know has leaks.

I definatly plan to get a second opinion, and do some price shopping. If I find a better price, I'll leave it to the shop. If I know for sure the system is completly evacuated, I may, with a supervisor, bolt on a new compressor, o-rings, dryer and manifold hose. If I get cold feet (pardon the pun) I'll just save up for a shop to do it.

BTW, in the 617.912 engine, with a Delco condenser, do you know if I have the 'upright' or 'rotary' compressor? This seems to be how salvage yards classify the compressors that would fit my car.

Thanks for the continued advice
James

JPL · #9 07-11-2002, 02:13 PM

Tx Bill:

Yep, sorry for the confusion. just read the manual wrong. It says "83-522 Removal and Installation of refrigerant compressor..D. Engines 615, 616, 617.912, 617.952 (with Delco refrigerant compressor)

Thanks for the 'rotary' clarification. That should make it easier to pull one from a salvage yard.

CHAPP · #10 07-11-2002, 08:37 PM

Don't buy a junk yard compressor...My re-built with 1 yr. guantee was almost the same price as the junk yard. Shop around.

Chapp

leathermang · #11 07-12-2002, 07:50 AM

As old as our cars are it is possible for something non stock to be on them.... there are three main "looks" to automotive air compressors...with one variation of one of those styles...
1. "york" upright or sideways... this looks like a lawnmower engine with no fins... a massive solid cubist body with the fittings and lines attaching at the basically flat top and the crank with clutch on the other end.
1a. the "v" version of this as was used on old Dodge products
2. swashplate types ( Sanyo,nippondensa,etc)... these are cylinders which resemble starters in their general shape and size. but with the usual AC compressor electomagnetic clutch on the end.
3. The Delco type.... Did you see the new rage at the Olympics this year ? May have been just demonstration ... but CURLING.... the Delco looks like the"Curling Irons " without the handles.. like hockey pucks on steroids... they are about four inches "long" and basically ROUND, bigger around than they are long... opposite to the swashplate types..... with the lines going in from the opposite end from the clutch...
The reason this came up was that I just acquired a 1974 280 gasser which has a Sanyo attached up front right where the york should have been.. it was a one owner car... it was a very neat installation and much smoother than the York type and requireing less hp to run it.. but it clearly had a homemade mounting plate..

jwduffey · #12 07-13-2002, 09:56 AM

I had a similar diagnosis for my 240D, it wouldn't hold Freon. A dye test revealed there were leaks at the compressor and the O-rings. I didn't want to spend $1000 + to have it repaired correctly, so I decided on a band-aid approach. With the help of my brother who is a Toyota mechanic, we removed all of the air and what was left of the R 12 from the system with a vacuum device he has. Then we added a new fitting to accept R134. I bought several cans of R134 that has some type of stop leak in it from a local Wal Mart. The whole process was very easy and only took about 30 minutes to do. My AC works better now than it has in years. The best part is it cost less than $40! It's been 4 months since we did this and the AC system is still working perfectly.

mplafleur · #13 07-14-2002, 11:40 AM

$50 a pound now!

I better keep a better eye on that 20lb can I have. I could probably swap it for an old Benz, or use it as collateral on a loan.

Seriously, I would do all the work yourself, then have the shop test it for leaks. Then have them charge it and insist that they give you credit for the freon that they removed from your system.