MB Turbodiesels as driver's cars

[spoilsport]

As desirable as the W116, and W123 -126s are, with their weight they aren't going to be the most nimble of the breed.

I'm wondering about W124 or 201 TDs being slightly more fun to drive. I've always been more fond of the classical styling of the 126 and earlier, but they all weigh close to 2 tons.

Any comments would be appreciated.
BTW... I certainly mean no disrespect to the marque!

[psfred]

By far the sportiest two are the 190 2.5 turbo (automatic only boo hoo ) and the W124 87 300D with the 603.

Those two have the most horsepower per pound until you get the the 98-99 E300 D turbos, and those are very rare, to say nothing of expensive right now. Real road burners, though.

As far as handling goes, none of them are actually sports cars in the Z3 or Shelby Cobra mode, but will give excellent, stable handling at high speed. The W115 chassis can be driving a little harder than the W123, and the W124 is a bit less forgiving (due to softening up the rear a bit for ride comfort), but all are very good "spots sedans" that can be a great pleasure to drive.

The W116 has better handling than the W126, but they are both hard to find it good condition, and the gas models are real gas hogs -- 12-14 mph isn't unusuall.

The W115 has a tighter rear suspension (less roll), but you can force the front tire off the rim before the back end starts to come loose. This was "fixed" in the W123 and later cars by allowing more body roll at the rear (softer sway bar) to give the driver more warning. Blowing a tire and a "car at the limit" curve can be a little more exciting than the typical MB driver really wants.

Rest assured -- in the real world, on a twisty mountain 2-lane, you will probably eat any American sedan or coupe, tricked out Camaros and Firebirds included, for lunch. A 'vette may give you a run for your money, but only due to greater acceleration -- they don't handle all that well.

Don't bother to try one of those Chryco fake sports cars -- they are positively dangerous at speed.

Peter

The W123 Coupes I feel tend to be more nimble than the other W123 cars, because of the 4.3 in. shorter wheelbase. They should be the most nimble out of the bunch.

[Holson Adi]

I think it would be the 1998-1999 E300 Turbodiesels and maybe you could put the E55's suspension components and wheels on it...

The W123 is a pretty decent handling car in my opinion. It's 20 yrs old but the brakes are excellent compared to some 1990 Toyotas (first hand experience).

I'd not say that it's a driver's car though.. the body rolls a little too much even though from the inside it feels pretty well composed. Then again it's no 3-series.. but it's also more comfortable.

My 126 has phenominal handling capabilites, far better than my 123.

When I push the car, not only is it -extremely- hard to make it slip, but even when it does, it is very predictable. The stability at high speed is also something to behold.

Also, I don't see how you could consider any 1980's MB diesel a 'drivers car'. The sheer lack of power wil turn alot of people away.

[spoilsport]

Originally posted by turbodiesel
Also, I don't see how you could consider any 1980's MB diesel a 'drivers car'. The sheer lack of power wil turn alot of people away.

I was speaking in relative terms. Then there is always the intercooler option for a bit more power.

[HGV]

If I recall corectly, the 87SDL 126 is 400# heavier than the 87 124 300TD. Not much of a difference but the 124 handles much better and gives a better more quite ride. Tires make the most difference in handling and ride.

Henry

[Ridge]

Try taking a 4 speed manual 240D, because of its spring rate and quicker steering and reliable a/c heater controls, put a turbo engine in it with intercooling then run it through a turn followed by almost any other diesel around and see who comes out the other end first. If you do by accident come second add propane injection!!

Besides all that the 5 cylinder can't be beat for durability and reliability and you can always convert them to running on vegetable oil.

If you haven't already seen our thread on "300DT intercooler pictures", check it out!!

Ben
www.reproduce100s.com

How can an E class give a better, quieter ride than an S?

[spoilsport]

Originally posted by Ridge
Try taking a 4 speed manual 240D, because of its spring rate and quicker steering and reliable a/c heater controls, put a turbo engine in it with intercooling
Ben
www.reproduce100s.com

How much to put an OM-617 into a 240D ? I'm talking about someone that knows what they're doing, that's definitely way beyond my ability.

BTW...I did read the IC thread.....doesn't look too easy either. Not like it's a bolt on kit or anything.............is it ?

Propane ? No thanks........I don't fancy the risk / benefit ratio!

[HGV]

The E Class has an encapsulated engine compartment with a double fire wall design and the S class does not. Makes a big difference. The 87 S class was at the end of the design life while the 87 E class was at the beginning. Same engine but very different body.

Henry

This is a topic we discuss allot on the MG web site.

I learned to "operate a car" in a 77 pinto. I learned to "Drive"
in a 78 MGB on the twisties of Mount Tamalpias in Marin County.

What is a "drivers car"? or a car well driven? I believe I drive my 124 300D in a much more proficient, alert, manner then many (most?) drivers on the road. Why? Not because of my ability, but rather an appreciation for the mechanics, the engineering, the total driving experience. (no doubt enhanced by all who read this who maintain their own cars).

I do listen to the stereo, (Blaupunkt Munchen) but not so loud
as to drown out the exhaust note.

My step father, a Belgian national used to say "Americans are
poor drivers" when I lived in Europe for 3 years I saw he was correct. The wide lanes and relatively strict traffic enforcement
allow us to put little or no effort into actually driving. Add to this the cell phone, 8Kw Bass thump, and eat/read/watch tv while you drive and it becomes apparent that while we may be a car culture, we are not a nation of drivers.

Now, I know this sounds pretty "out there" but if you think about it, I am probably preaching to the choir.

Why is it that the 5/6 cyl 2ton diesel (turbo or not) is a "drivers car"?

It is simple.

It is the nut between the steering wheel and the accelerator pedal.

Craig W. Amos
1987 300D Turbo 280K
1978 MGB Roadster

[Robert W. Roe]

Man, you guys are making me consider a W124 as my next car... either an '87 300Dt or 300TDt, 300E, 400E or 500E.
The 300D 2.5 turbo is nice, but not as powerful as the others, and feels a bit front heavy, at least the one I drove.
I drove a 1991 300E 4matic sedan once, and it was very nice on the highway, making 75 coming onto an uphill onramp.
Only the fact I was passing most traffic made me look down at the speedo, and I was rapidly approaching 80 mph.
I could see flying around at license-revoking speeds (86 mph in a 55 withj a PA license brings an 15 day suspension for the first offense.)

[psfred]

The W124 is quieter than the W126 and has different handling because it has a multilink rear suspension rather than semitrailing arms. Newer design, and one of the objectives was smoother, quieter ride --The American Big Car Driver Requirements. After all MB sells more cars here than the rest of the world combined....

The engine compartment is about the same, but the W124 has a modified McPherson strut suspention and the W126 has the zero offset suspention from the C111 (ditto for the W123 and W116 cars). Probably transfers more noise into the passenger compartment via the firewall.

As far as driving my 87 300D, my sister-in-law says it's dangerous -- she was driving it while their 87 300SDL was in the shop, said it started driving "funny" on the way home (at one of the sharper turns on the country road) -- seems she was up to 65 mph and didn't know it. Sure would make the car "drive funny" -- I've never taken THAT curve at 65, even in my old Toyota Crown when I was young and stupid! Needless to say, she watched the speedo more after that. That 300D flies if you don't drive it like a gas engine!

Peter