240d Runs Fine On Used Motor Oil
 

I have been fascinated with the idea of running my diesel on other alternate fuels besides that of Diesel which is now capping out at $1.69 per gallon. I work at an automotive dealership and have more than ample supply of used motor oil. I picked up a nice 240D with 74000 miles and have been increasing the amount of used motor oil to my mixture of diesel. Im currently running about 60% oil to diesel and while I dont really see why, it seems to run with a little more power the more oil i add. There has been no increase in smoke at all. It seems to fire off and go to a smooth idle a lot faster in cold weather. The coldest i have cranked in is 17 degrees. I make a 70 mile round trip daily to and from work is why i bought the car...might as well wear out an older car than a newer car... The $500 price tag wasnt that bad either, so being that I got it cheap, I feel justified in experimenting with it. What I would like to know is there anyone else out there supplementing fuel with used motor oil...if so what kind of ratios have you achieved? This summer I am going to try 100% used motor oil and see what happens. Comments?

I'm assuming you filter the used oil before putting it in the tank? If so, how do you filter it?

Yes, you most definitely must filter it.

I used to bother with pouring my drained oil through several layers of muslin, then pouring it in the tank, no more than about two quarts per tankful. It worked great, but was just too much of a hassle to bother with.

A major rental truck company filters drained oil then pours it in the fuel tanks. The difference here is that even five gallons or so of filtered, drained oil is dilluted well in the 250 gallon tanks.

Have a great day,

I'm finding this even more interesting than using veggie oil. Used motor oil would be so easy to come by, and I don't see the potential of damage to the injection pump, ect as I've heard mentioned with veggie oil.

I considered that at first and then realized that the oil is constantly filtered while it is in the car that it came from so I bypassed that step. Also most manufactures of later model cars provide a magnet in the oil pan or on the oil pan plug itself that captures any metal particles...which are virtually nonexistant in cars over 10000 miles anyway. I am keeping a watch on my primary and secondary fuel filters but they dont seem to be stressed or show any signs of clogging. By posting this I am hoping to find someone that has had a problem so I will know when to quit...but as it stands everything is a go.

I would certainly filter it again before using it!! A simple system can be easily made with an electric fuel transfer pump and a standard auto filter like a ph8a. At the very least a large truck-type fuel filter added before the two MB filters to catch any crap thats there. I wouldn't run more than 25% used oil just because I don't feel comfortable running a diesel on such a high-viscosity fuel. I start thinking about over-stressing IP parts.... RT

This is a very interesting thread. I have several gallons of used oil laying around, and I might give this a try sometime.

This is madness!:eek: This is something I'd never consider doing to a car that I plan to keep.

I did this last spring a little. Not even 10%. Worked fine.

I find 60% an incredible ratio. If this could be sustained over a long period of time, it'd be amazing.

Keep us posted.

I was going to wait until it warmed up, but now I'm going to filter it and go for it.

Thanks a bunch,

Don

RT,

You have a good idea with the PH8, but it is not a fine enough filter element. I can't remember what the trucking company was using, but it was VERY fine.

A filter arrangement can be made with some buckets and several layers of heavy cloth. Pour the oil so that it will gradually flow through the cloth.

wfdiesel,

The filtering that is done while the oil is in the car is totally insufficient. You must remember that the holes in your injectors are much smaller than a human hair. I have heard of truckers just pouring the oil in their tanks, and it caused lots of problems.

DieselAddict,

There is nothing at all outrageous about this as long as you FILTER the oil. The national rental truck company that I know has done and I fully expect are still doing this, are extremely scientific in their maintenance and operation approach. They have a large laboratory and research department that is constantly testing all sorts of things, and probably learn more about the maintenance and operation of diesel trucks than any manufacturer. If they weren't doing this with confidence, I might also think it was outragous.

Also, remember, diesel fuel is nothing but lightweight oil.

Have a great day everyone,

The wear metals in the oil will cause elevated injector and fuel pump wear. Keep in mind fuel pressures can reach 4,000+psi and the components pressurizing this fuel are very precise and require clean fuel. I would recommend installing a two micron final filter in-line with the original final filter if you plan on keeping the car.

With that said, I will agree that a $500 car is the best to experiment with, and you will probably save $500 in fuel costs prior to any measurable wear occuring inside the fuel pump or injectors. I wouldnt do this to a car unless I considered it junk at that point and had another reliable way to get to work. But the money saved is considerable. I know when I worked for the marine industry some of the large Sulzer, Wartsila, Niigata, and DDC/MTU diesels would actually have a setup that would allow them to run off their own crankcase oil, and they would measure how much was removed and constantly replace it until the oil had basically been flushed completely. Of course these engines burned bunker oil that was the consistency of grease at room temp, but its the same basic theory, although I can assure you they took filtration extremely seriously, for the oil in the crankcase, the oil being burned, and the fuel being burned.

Good luck, keep us updated on how it works.

Very interesting.

Would there be any problem burning synthetic oil I wonder? I would think not but .....

LarryBible, actually this idea is not new to me and I'm aware that diesel is just another hydrocarbon like oil, but with a shorter chain and thus less viscous than oil. I don't have doubts that a diesel engine can run on oil. But I don't think anyone will convince me that it's as safe as using diesel, even if you filter it. You still have the higher-than-recommended viscosity to deal with. Not to mention that diesel fuel is cheaper than motor oil and I don't have vast quantities of used oil lying around, but that's not the main issue.

1 gal oil to 100 gal fuel is a common ratio in the trucking industry, and has been for as long as diesels have been in the trucking industry (about 50 yrs). Keep in mind they have more substantial fuel filtering systems, too. The professional filtering companies came about because of the pollution folks (tree hugger and government types).

An old school cold start trick is to spray oil into the intake manifold in lieu of glow plugs or ether. There are still small (sailboat) marine engines that do it this way, and the manifold is built with ports you can open.

wfdiesel is proving again that the 220D/240D is one of the best engines ever built. Can't wait to find out his limit of fuel filter plugging!

Larry, I agree on needing a finer filter but I was mainly concerned about catching any crap that ended up in the used oil as it was drained/stored. Hydraulic system filters are available in many micron ratings so it would be easy to setup a system that first used a ph8a and then a 2-micron hydraulic filter, pushing the oil through them with an electric pump. Easy to build and fairly cheap. RT

RT,

Sounds like a great idea. What do you use for a pump?

Have a great day,

I have been burning every combination of fuel know to man over the past several years.
First motor will burn straight but it can be difficult to start below 20 degrees. You can try adding mineral spirits or diesel to thin it out .
As of recent I have been burning used canola oil straight , also dumping in used atf and motor oil. Every so often you really should burn a tank of diesel.I believe a long diet might soot up in the pre chambers and I say might.
The filtering process is quite simple. A 20 gallon parts washer tank and a oil furnace filter recirculated for about 24 to 48 hours. The dirty oil longer. I now am setting up a simpler filter that is similar to the fuel filter. This will be a second step after the first.
Synthetic oil burns the same as anything else.
Never had any problems with pumps, injectors, gelling, starting, smell, or smoke.

Go for it.:D

Larry,
I haven't done this yet, it was just a suggestion. Depending on what kind of filter you use it could even gravity feed if you can wait a week for it to flow.... McMasterCarr has many different pumps or maybe a drill-powered pump or even an auto oil pump could be used.
Ricali,
What specifically do you do to use straight used WVO? Very curious about this given your location, western MA, gelling issues, etc. Thanks, RT

Cummins has a system that meters crankcase oil into the fuel supply to be burned. One then replaces the lost oil with fresh oil. This allows for some seriously long drain intervals since the oil and its additives are constantly being replaced.

"The Cummins CENTINEL Advanced Engine Oil Management System allows engines to go 525,000 miles between oil changes and 100,000 miles before changing the filter. with less time and money spent on oil system maintenance."

rwthomas A little history first. A few years ago a friend of mine gave me a rabbit convert. that was tired. I decided that Volkswagen needed a diesel conv.. So after a total restoration and installing a diesel, he said why not something really crazy like burning french fry oil. Well thats history and the saga goes on.
So the answer is no nothing other than complete filtration and adding power service. As for gelling there is a hundred gallons sitting in my garage and no sign of gell. Our temp was down to about minus 15 last week. I do however not use it under about 10+. All my oil comes from a known source and does NOT have any salt in it.
Another little fact is that viscosity has nothing to do with actual weight as in pounds. I believe gas weighs about 6 pounds per gallon and oil weigh about 6 pounds per gallon. ( am I correct from my aircraft training??)

Ricali:

I'm already hooked, but need a couple of questions answered:

1. About how many miles have you done with alternative fuels and has this impacted the injectors more than normal?

2. How do I find WVO that doesn't congeal or gel during winter months? I was under the impression that it all did. The restaurant that I have permission to work with.... the stuff looks like vaseline.

Don

If you use waste crankcase oil doesn't it have dirt and metal particles in it? Is it a good idea to run this through your injector pump? Are there filtration techniques which suitably remove the particles to make it safe for the IP?

This machine will clean the used oil, the only draw back is that it costs almost $30,000:

http://www.hydrogenappliances.com/bigoil.html

i started by putting samples in the freezer. My wife really liked that.

Miles driven probably in the 100,000 range. About 50k on my present 95 E300.

Pump or injector problems none. Again not for faint of heart. There ALWAYS is a risk.

Dirt in the fuel filters has not been high and an average filter change at about 12k.

I also have a strong magnet on the side of my filter tank. This does not take of none magnetic particles.

The whole theory behind filtering is as the filter becomes clogged it filters even finer. So filter filter, filter and when done filter again.

A starting point, buy 5 gallons of new canola or veggie oil and dump it in.
:D ;) ;)

Hey folks, what about all the acid &
combustion byproducts (liquidy stuff) that are in used motor oil and you can't filter out?

Is this an area of concern?

Aivars

Just filtered 8 gallons of used motor oil today with one of the cylinder filters from Greasel. Worked awesome. Poured a couple of gallons in the wagon. Running a hundred miles tonight and will see how it runs.

Don

I was listening to NPR a week ago, and they were talking with a guy in England who runs his Mercedes Diesel on used cooking oil. His neighbors say they always know it's him because it smells like fish n' chips when he starts it up in the morning and comes home at night . . .

greasel filter
 

diesel don,
what is a greasel filter? is greasel a brand name?

pklarc beat me to the question. I'm very interested in the answer.

The answer to the question about acids and other contaminants is that you are BURNING this as fuel, not using it as oil. As long as the particulate matter is removed, the other contaminants shouldn't hurt anything because the lubricity of this "fuel" is obviously adequate since it is engine lubricating oil.

Have a great day,

Here is the site for greasel.

http://www.greasel.com/

Look around and you will find the filters.

I just dumped a gallon of used oil in my tank Tuesday AM, topped it off with Diesel, refilled this morning and got 23 MPG, car ran fine---but I agree in principle that this oil should be filtered before you put it in your tank.

As Jim mentioned, the filters are from Greasel.com



Very cool as you could dump ten gallons in one and go away and take a nap. The draw back is that they cost $10 or so per filter.

After filtering 8 gallons, the thing looks like it will last for 500 gallons or so. Others mention that they merely turn them inside out and wash them with soap and water. I was pretty encouraged by the rate flow of filtering. Took about 5 minutes or so per gallon (i had the oil at 70 degrees or warmer though).

Don

UPDATE
 

I just posted another 400 miles running about 60% oil 40% diesel. For the first time ever, my glow plug light didnt come on immediately when I left for work yesterday morning. After I turned the engine over a couple of times, the light came on like normal...At work last night to go home the light did not come on. I do not know if this is a result of burning too much oil or if its time to deal with new glow plugs...originals are still in there from factory in 1983. Filled up with Diesel on the way home and probably had about 10% oil and now my light came back on....who knows? Anyway, going to keep everyone posted on what happens as I burn more oil...it is the cheapest transportation I have ever had.

PS ...My company actually pays to get rid of the used oil.

I tried running used oil in my Cummins. It ran fine but the filter plugged up and left me stranded. Be sure to keep a filter and wrench with you in case this happens.

What will the greasel filters or any other filtering process do for the waste oil that the engine's oil filter did not do when the oil was in the crankcase? I would think that to do better than the engine's oil filter you would at least need a pressurized filtering system. I've got a few gallons of waste oil laying around and I'm tempted to dump them in without filtering them.

So if I took a stack of 5 coffee filters, would this be enough to get the used engine oil clean enough to use?

Remember this...it is easy to lose focus of what you are doing...used motor oil is not relatively dirty. The engine that it came out of was running on this oil and if it were dirty the engine would not be running on the oil. The oil is constantly filtered while in the engine. Todays oil filters are of extremely high quality and filter the oil very good. Todays engines are made of longer lasting metals that do not break down and deposit into the oil like older engines. Just think of how dirty the diesel fuel is that you put into your car at the pump. It has probably never been filtered other than at the pump itself. One other thing, dont forget you have two filters inline before the oil gets to the injector pump. Be careful not to filter the slick out of the oil...(joke). Enjoy free riding on free oil.

Ya . . . but keep in mind that there is an amount of COMBUSTION ASH suspended in the oil pan BELOW the pump pick-up . . .

Ought to be able to make really black coffee with these babies:) LOL.

So does the 16" Greasel filter fit into a five gallon bucket? How does it work?

Have a great day,

Larry,

I purchased five filters from Greasel. They are probably 36" or so long and I suspect the rough size of a volleyball vertically.

They come with a strap that is fairly sturdy for tying them in an upright position. I just tied a rope to that strap and suspended it over the 5 gallon bucket with the bottom of the bag a couple of inches into the bucket (so it wouldn't swing wide and drip on the floor). There is a sturdy ring of some fashion woven into the top of the bag filter so that the mouth of it is rigid and always open. As the oil is poured in, the bag assumes the shape of a cylinder (small golf bag or so).

I then just poured in one gallon at a time. On one occasion I put in two and it handled the weight fine. I was swapping glo plugs at the time in the TD and checked it every now and then.

Pretty cool process.

Don

?? Has anyone got any info on emissions from burning used engine oil? One of the reasons I run waste vegetable oil is that the emissions are actually cleaner and less toxic than exhaust from straight diesel. Since waste engine oil is generally considered a carcinogen, I wonder what the resulting exhaust contains. Of course, this may be one of the safer ways to dispose of it.

- Larry Bible, the filters Greasel is selling are cloth bags with a wire ring sewn into the opening. I put a 5 gallon container of WVO on a shelf, open the spigot, and let it gravity feed through the filter bag which I have hanging from the shelf edge over an open 55 gallon drum. I get my filters in bulk from manufacturer - cheap enough to toss them whenever they get good and dirty.

- I run 20% filtered WVO in the diesel tank, 100% filtered WVO from a heated auxilary tank in the trunk (ala the Greasel setup). As I've set it up, the 100% WVO goes through an MB prefilter, a stock VW diesel filter, the fuel pump, and finally the stock MB spin on filter. 5,000 miles since last filter changes with no indication of problems..

- I'm going to start making biodiesel from WVO and skip regular diesel altogether. That 617 engine is bulletproof!

Fmb

diesel don,

Thanks for the description. This is much more than you can learn from their website.

Have a great weekend,

Ya . . . but keep in mind that there is an amount of
COMBUSTION ASH suspended in the oil pan BELOW the
pump pick-up . . .


I don't understand what you mean.

Used oil is very dirty!!!!!
 

You are fooling yourself if you think that used oil is not dirty or in any way "clean". Automotive filters only filter to 20-30microns in cheap filters and maybe as low as 15microns in a premium type filter. Even the very best bypass filters, and bypass filters are NOT common, only get to maybe 3-4micron at best. Diesel fuel filters are commonly 2 MICRON!!! So the "clean" used oil you are putting in your tank is LOADED with crap that is all at least sub-10micron. Soot suspended in diesel oil is SUBMICRONIC, meaning simply smaller than a micron per particle. All these particles floating around in the fuel system may or may not harm the pump and injectors but to claim they aren't there is foolhardy. Filtering the oil to the 2micron level likely is sufficient. Hydraulic system filters are commonly available in this rating. RT

Cummins and others used to sell a machine to do this, it pumped the old oil out, filtered it and pumped fuel also to mix the two thouroly before pumping back into the tanks, about 6 gal to 300.
The old dark fuel we used to get in Mexico had more power than ours, and #2 has more power than #1 so I see no problem but 60% is a bit much, thats almost bunker fuel, and starting a 17 deg.?

Would this work to filter the oil?? .. uses a roll of toilet paper to filter it. I saw one of these in action and the guy took used diesel motor oil and ran it through the filter and it came out clean and clearm ( oil looked like new)

http://www.wefilterit.com/frantz_facts2.htm

bennett

npnye,

And why wouldn't this ash, that is suspended in the oil as U say, not mix homogeniously with the other oil in the crankcase as the oil is sloshing around in the crankcase as the car is going over bumps, skidding around corners, rapid decelerations and jack rabbit starts and all the time being pumped throughout the engine?

Some ash may settle when the engine is stopped and allowed to cool but it is soon mixed with the oil as the oil heats and the car is driven.

P E H

used motor oil maybe even used hydraulic oil
 

my father worked in the Persian Gulf with ARAMACO in the 60's use to burn CRUDE OIL straight from the oil pipe line in pumping stations that were a strech logisticaly. Of course there were no metallic content to deal with that was the main reason that I did not try it as I work at a locomotive repair shop and have access to many gallons of used motor oil. The thing that stops me everytime is the metal that is picked up by the oil that no real filter process can remove short of redistillation. Jim

the reason you're noticing an improvement in performance is due to the presence of gasoline in waste engine oil. a lot of gas gets past the rings on all gasoline engines. i'm no chemist but i know there are other products of cumbustion in the oil including water and the solids that accumulate and stuff up catalytic convertors.