AMSOIL report after 6K miles on B100 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

freesoul · #1 04-30-2010, 04:22 PM

Well almost B100, I did put a few gallons of petrodiesel in this winter. The distributor who took the sample and sent me the report said he would come down next week and go over it with me. Whoever did the report at AMSOIL told him that we make some good fuel, that made me feel good.

He suspects there may have been some leftover residue from the previous oil, not sure what that was but it was a diesel oil. He said to change the filter and go another 5K or so and he will pull another sample

Using AMSOIL Synthetic Blend 15W-40 Heavy Duty Motor Oil (PCO)

Any comments on these results? I use Mann filters

http://buckscountyfreedomfuel.auto.officelive.com/Documents/AMSOIL%20test%20results%20MB.pdf

JHZR2 · #2 04-30-2010, 05:09 PM

It looks fine, but the oil has lost some viscosity from what it should be, which is 14.5 per the Amsoil site. Couple that with the highish Pb level and Id say that you havent taken all of the methanol out of the fuel (unreacted/unwashed, etc.), and that it is causing some soft metal wear by coming through to the bearings.

The P is worrysome, but without a VOA of the amsoil oil, we cannot be sure if it is some mystery of the add pack. Since I do not see any real Na in the oil, I doubt that it is an issue of antifreeze.

Given the TBN and soot loading, I wouldnt even change the filter, just keep going. My be wary of unreacted methoxide or methanol. You've washed the Na out from the methoxide prep, as it isnt showing, so I think it is just miscible alcohol or similar.

latitude500 · #3 04-30-2010, 05:40 PM

Thank you for posting your findings thats great news to read your report.

freesoul · #4 04-30-2010, 06:57 PM

We use KOH not NAOH to process, and we do 4-5 water washes. We do a rudimentary test for methanol- dip a paper towel in some finished fuel and light it, never seen any blue flame.

We also test for soaps, we always get our fuel close to ASTM which is 66ppm.

Squiggle Dog · #5 04-30-2010, 10:53 PM

Interesting. I use Amsoil 15W40 full synthetic diesel oil and B99 biodiesel (purchased at the pump).

freesoul · #6 05-01-2010, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squiggle Dog

Interesting. I use Amsoil 15W40 full synthetic diesel oil and B99 biodiesel (purchased at the pump).

I've bought B100 at the pump and gotten fuel that was cloudy (had water). The distributor denied it and provided me with an ASTM report on the supposed fuel batch. My eyes don't lie, put it next to a sample of our fuel and it was night and day.

JHZR2 · #7 05-01-2010, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freesoul

We use KOH not NAOH to process, and we do 4-5 water washes. We do a rudimentary test for methanol- dip a paper towel in some finished fuel and light it, never seen any blue flame.

We also test for soaps, we always get our fuel close to ASTM which is 66ppm.

Well so you definitely are seeing fuel dilution, judged by the soft metal wear (it washes down in there), and the fact that K is high.

It isn't bad, but it is noted...

Alastair · #8 05-01-2010, 12:40 PM

Be interesting to see a full ASTM test of your fuel.....

I had a full EN-14214 test (Euro equivalent of your ASTM test) of the fuel I make at work.

--Practically everything was within spec, Except for 'Micro-carbon residue' a newly added test which is apparently impossible to pass if UCO is used as feedstock....
(I'm working on that micro-carbon residue issue though.....)

MeOH, NaOH, free and total glyc, acid-value, oxidation stability, copper-strip corrosion test, phosphor and calcium, 'elementals' and sulphur, ester-content were all well within the prescribed limits.....

I asked the scientist who did the tests for us, what he thought of the fuel and he reckons that I make 'A bloody good brew....'

He also went on to say that its quite possible that British Standards will drop the 'Micro-Cabon Residue' test as its fundimentally flawed anyway!

--Not sure if this test is included in the US ASTM testing lists for BioDiesel fuel....

Methanol content of the fuel wouldnt cause the lead in your oil, Meth would burn in combustion and never last long enough to dilute the engine-oil!

Prolly general wear and tear. Your engine is after all, 15 years old!

Alastair · #9 05-01-2010, 12:48 PM

Forgot to add, that as you 'Water-Wash' you'll not have any dicernable Methanol or catalyst left in the fuel. These things have a much greater affinity with water than esters so will be washed out with the soaps....

JHZR2 · #10 05-01-2010, 12:57 PM

Well one must explain the K content, without Na is not antifreeze.

You see elevated soft metal wear when fuel adds with light solvents (which in theory should burn off too) are used. This is a VERY common occurrnce...

Show me another plausible reason to see excess soft-metal wear without extra Fe (solvent induced), AND reagent from the biodiesel process in the oil, and we can talk...

I'd advise working through Terry Dyson, who is the foremost expert in used oil analysis, and would surely shed really good insight (for a cost)...

freesoul · #11 05-01-2010, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alastair

Be interesting to see a full ASTM test of your fuel.....

I had a full EN-14214 test (Euro equivalent of your ASTM test) of the fuel I make at work.

--Practically everything was within spec, Except for 'Micro-carbon residue' a newly added test which is apparently impossible to pass if UCO is used as feedstock....
(I'm working on that micro-carbon residue issue though.....)

MeOH, NaOH, free and total glyc, acid-value, oxidation stability, copper-strip corrosion test, phosphor and calcium, 'elementals' and sulphur, ester-content were all well within the prescribed limits.....

I asked the scientist who did the tests for us, what he thought of the fuel and he reckons that I make 'A bloody good brew....'

He also went on to say that its quite possible that British Standards will drop the 'Micro-Cabon Residue' test as its fundimentally flawed anyway!

--Not sure if this test is included in the US ASTM testing lists for BioDiesel fuel....

Methanol content of the fuel wouldnt cause the lead in your oil, Meth would burn in combustion and never last long enough to dilute the engine-oil!

Prolly general wear and tear. Your engine is after all, 15 years old!

I would love to as well, just dont have $1500 laying around for that.

The distributor said the results may be skewed a little from whatever oil was in there before. Guess I'll find out in another 10K miles after I change it and run the new oil awhile....

My car barely smokes at all, in fact the only time there is any visible smoke is at night when it is cold out and I stomp on the pedal

Alastair · #12 05-01-2010, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHZR2

Well one must explain the K content, without Na is not antifreeze.

You see elevated soft metal wear when fuel adds with light solvents (which in theory should burn off too) are used. This is a VERY common occurrnce...

Show me another plausible reason to see excess soft-metal wear without extra Fe (solvent induced), AND reagent from the biodiesel process in the oil, and we can talk...

I'd advise working through Terry Dyson, who is the foremost expert in used oil analysis, and would surely shed really good insight (for a cost)...

Hmm....

Cant assume its from the Fuel....

Without an elementals analysis of the Fuel used to determine its K content its quite impossible to definately say that it came from there....
(And that means on all the various batches of fuel it was run on during that 6K miles....)

As the analysis says, there could be many sources of this apparent contaminant--Could be from the previous oil or fuel additive used in the past, and at only 32 parts per million, it could be way in the car's past!

It IS 15 years old, so some 'soft-metal' wear is only to be expected--Be strange if there wasnt!!

JHZR2 · #13 05-01-2010, 08:32 PM

Can't assume that elevated lead (flagged) is to be expected just because of the age either. Uoas need to be trended to validate that.

I don't get it - do you think I'm implying that the fuel is low quality or something?

Fuel ingress into the oil is a very common thing. One must consider the precursors to a biodiesel product, but again, it does not mean there is anything wrong with the fuel.

You verywell could have an injector that leaks after sitting down, washing past the rings and into the locality of the bearings. Given the basestock of the oil and the sump size, shrearing out of grade is not expected.

K has to be coming from somewhere, without Na likely it isn't antifreeze. The change in viscosity has to come from something, a PAO in an 8qt sump isn't going to go out of grade without an issue.

We only have so much info... Right now I'm betting upon a fuel system issue, perhaps related to a leaking injector or something not right.

What's the point of doing uoa unless you use it to try to infer potential issues or lack thereof? Your UOA wasn't spotless in multiple ways. Could mean something associated with the engine, could be the fuel, or yhe flags we see could have to do with the use of the fuel in the engine.

It's still worth it to look into the reasons why we see flags and abnormal readings...

babymog · #14 05-01-2010, 10:42 PM

I can recall oil additives sold in the past 10 years, that contain lead as a friction modifier. One oil analysis is a start, two or three will tell you more.

JHZR2 · #15 05-01-2010, 11:02 PM

I highly doubt such an add was used as an aftermarket thing... And no current oil, HDEO or other, uses PB as an FM add or otherwise.