The original root of the problem.....
 

"Amazing how complicated life became when we "----- Decided we did not want to be hot and sweaty. :D

And Idaho, for Dave
 

Idaho Statutes TITLE 49
MOTOR VEHICLES
CHAPTER 9
VEHICLE EQUIPMENT
49-959. AIR-CONDITIONING EQUIPMENT. (1) Air-conditioning equipment shall
be manufactured, installed and maintained with due regard for the safety of
the occupants of the vehicle and the public and shall not contain any
refrigerant which is toxic to persons or which is flammable at or below one
thousand degrees (1000º) Fahrenheit.
(2) No person shall have for sale, offer for sale, sell or equip any
motor vehicle with any air-conditioning equipment unless it complies with
the requirements of this section.
(3) No person shall operate on any highway any motor vehicle equipped
with any air-conditioning equipment unless the equipment complies with the
requirements of this section.

From the web site of the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services: Duracool is illegal in Florida

This also makes intersting reading: EPA Legal Status of Duracool

Wild. From Rick's EPA link above:

May hydrocarbon refrigerants be used to replace CFC-12, commonly referred to as "Freon® ," in cars?

No. It is illegal to use hydrocarbon refrigerants like HC-12a® and DURACOOL 12a® as substitutes for CFC-12 in automobile or truck air conditioning under any circumstances.

# May hydrocarbon refrigerants be vented?

No. Since November 15, 1995, the Clean Air Act has prohibited the venting of any refrigerant during the service, maintenance, repair, or disposal of air conditioning and refrigeration systems. When working on a system containing a hydrocarbon refrigerant such as HC-12a® or DURACOOL 12a®, the technician must recover the refrigerant into a suitable container and safely dispose of it.

The following 18 states ban the use of flammable refrigerants such as HC-12a® and DURACOOL 12a® in motor vehicle air conditioning, regardless of the original refrigerant: Arkansas, Arizona, Connecticut, Florida, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Louisiana, Maryland, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Wisconsin, Washington, and the District of Columbia.


Check out this URL (scroll to bottom) for a chart of which products are EPA legal or not:

http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/refrigerants/macssubs.html

Rick, thanks for the info! Great stuff.,

I am expecting to see " Don't you people have anything better to do than look up state laws ? " pretty soon....:D

Thanks for all your work, but all this looks like 134a is out too. These laws list toxic even before they mention flammable. The tests that were done at Wright Patterson Air Base in July 1997 proved the volunteer died at 41/2 minutes. To me that is toxic. Since we are really looking into this, R12 cans also say they may cause death without warning. You can also add to the list Freeze 12, McCool and Chill it also says on their cans may cause death without warning. To my understanding Idaho repealed their law quietly and Arkansas LPG board refused to pursue it in front of the judge several years ago. Read the MSDS

Another half truth..... what it says is this :

" .... Avoid prolonged breathing of vapor. Deliberate inhalation of contents is extremely dangerous. Death can occur without warning. "

In other words... the above was addressing people who " huff"... and warning them that they may not get 'signs' of overdose before death occurs...

On the front it says " Excessive inhalation can cause death" ...

Excessive ANYTHING can cause death....

O.K. I,ll throw in the towel I've got work to do. You guys can believe what you want. If you believe that what I do for a living is illegal and dangerous turn me in. Here is the information you need.
Charles Fox
Fox Tool & Supply
1430 Neely's Bend Road
Madison TN 37115
Phone 615-865-6251
Fax 615-865-6633
Cell 615-310-1743
Pager 615-862-0613

Have a nice day.

It is hard to believe nobody has had anything to say in almost an hour. If you would go to the MSDS leathermang you would find that anything over 1000 parts per million is considered excessive. That is 1/10 of 1%. Lawyers know how to write warnings to cover their clients.

Turning Charles in
 

We may be all reading the EPA website, figuring how we can claim the $10,000 reward for turning you in.

From Rick's Duracool illegal in Florida link. . .

Hey, Redfox, that's you isn't it??? Are you the main marketer/distributor in the U.S. for this product?

This thread was about alternatives for R12.... you came on and said Duracool fit that description... If you had not said that none of this interesting information would have come out..
If you had said that Duracool was better than 134a but not as good as R12 you would not even have caused stir....

Yes, that is me I probably sell more than anyone in the U.S. If what I'm doing is so illegal why haven't I been fined or taken to court. I make several trips to FL every year to sell Duracool at the major car shows and I ship there almost daily. Today I only shipped 4 cases to FL, which is a slow day. The truth is nobody in the legal system wants the truth to come out in open court. You notice I didn't say justice system. In a normal season I will sell anywhere from 4 to 8 thousand cases. A large portion of this goes to FL. If you guys will continue to do your research you will find that in Fl it is not against the law to sell Duracool contrary to what you might find in the newspapers. If you would like to you can call Vicki O'Neil at 850-921-8001. We are on a first name basis.

Quite true. The EPA regs only state that Duracool is not allowed in *automotive* refrigeration systems. So of course it's legal to sell and you are free from any blame or wrongdoing. The person who actually installs it in their vehicle is the one technically breaking the law. It's all semantics. :rolleyes:

Leathermang

I have said what I believe and have proven to myself to be true. I'm not so insecure that I have to prove it to you or anyone else. Who was it that said [To thy onself be true]?