Duracool marketing
 

Damn. This thread should die, but.....
The last poster hinted that he added one can of Duracool to an R12 system to top it off. That's illegal everywhere. If he sells the vehicle, and the buyer takes it to a shop for service, it could pollute hundreds of dollars worth of R12 in the recovery machine. If it only took one can to top the system off, why not use a $25 can of R12?

One of my students came in recently to use our equipment (I teach at a technical college) to recharge his R12 system. He had gone to a local parts store and asked for two cans of R12. The clerk brought out two cans of R12a, checked the student's 609 license, and sold him the refrigerent. No mention at all that it was a hydrocarbon refrigerant, that the system must be empty of R12 before it could be used, that it was specifically prohibited for use in motor vehicles in this state (Arkansas) and seven others at last count, and was legal under EPA rules only as a retrofit for R134a systems in the other states. Somehow that clerk believed that Duracool R12a was a direct drop-in replacement for R12. Couldn't have anything to do with Duracool's deceptive marketing practices, could it? Selling less than a dollar's worth of propane and isobutane for $10? What could the possible incentive be for deceptive marketing practices?

For those who live as far south as I do, and use Duracool, you are in for a real surprise when the temp reaches 105~110 degrees. Duracool will become less effective as a refrigerant at higher ambient temperatures. Even with the system fully serviced and functional. It's physics. Ask your Duracool salesman about it; I'm sure he'll tell you the truth.

I use MSR Isopro backpacker stove fuel to run diagnostics on my R12 A/C systems. It's cheaper than Duracool, more widely available, and is almost exactly the same blend of isobutane (20%) and propane (80%). Once the system is all sorted out and any leaks fixed, I then recharge it with R12. If you fix the leaks, R12 isn't expensive to use. And NOTHING works better in the real world.

VeggiePup,

Using the MSR Isopro for leak detection, are you using it with UV Dye for the leak detection? Is there any harm done to the mineral oil that is in the system when using this stuff, or can you simply vent it legally, evacuate and charge with R12.

What does it take in the way of fittings to attach it to your gauges?

Thanks,

Dale,

Thanks for the info... it backs up my suspicions. :) I have the same questions as Larry, mostly how to connect it to manifold gauges....? :confused:



Best regards,

Veggiepup

It continues to amaze me how many are against Duracool when we just offering an answer to the average persons problems. The multinational companies and our government brought this problem on us. A 12oz can of R12 used to sell for less than $1.00, now it sells for anywhere from $20.00 to $50.00. Where is the money going? We were told that it was the tax than caused the increase in price. There is a $6.25 tax on 16oz of R12, not 12oz. This tax was to build facilities to destoy R12 once it was reclaimed. To this day I do not know where those facilities are. First we were sold reclaimers that sold for several thousand dollars. We wouldn't go for that because we wanted to put the customers R12 back into his system. Then we were sold reclaimers/recyclers at another few thousand. We were told that 134a was enviromentally safe. Then they sold us 134a reclaimers at another few thousand. Why aren't we outraged. If R12 was so bad it should have been taken out of every system immediately and held Dupont responsible for the product and the cost of destoying it, but no we let them give us another product that is potentially 100 times worse. You as a teacher have access to the MSDS on 134a. Are you explaining the dangers of 134a to your students? Duracool is made from instrument grade product which pushes the cost of refining it up. The product you were using from your fuel tank is fuel grade and cheap. The mixture you spoke of has to high a percentage of propane and would raise your high and low pressures in an automotive a/c system.

Veggiepup

I sell to a large corporation in Blytheville AR that has used my product for several years as a replacement for 134a. Larry called me after he had been using it for some time and I asked about the performance of the duracool. He told me the outside temerature was 105 degrees and they were getting 56 degrees vent temps and he was very pleased. This is in very large off road equipment. I'm not as concerned about replacing R12 in vehicles as I am about repacing 134a. I also sell to several customers in NM, AZ and southern CA and have had no complaints that I remember of poor performance in these areas. When I get complaints I respond quickly to find out the problem. It usually turns out to be mechnical, quite often the heater door in the dash.

Sigh..................

That's what we've been trying to tell you. Duracool is a great replacement for R-134a systems. It is not a great replacement for R-12.

And I do agree with Dale about Duracool's misleading marketing, I don't like the "R-12a" name, and I also don't like how their website is one big sales pitch with almost zero techincal information (compared to AutoFrost).

gsxr

It amazes me how so many people can condemn something they have never tried.

gsxr

When have I ever used R-12a when I am speaking of Duracool 12a? I would like to know which site refers to it as R-12a and I will be in touch with them or the home office about it.

I've never tried jumping off a cliff, but I'm ready to condone it. Standing on solid ground is far preferable for me.

Have a great day,

Actually may convert my one car with R-134a to Duracool. It already has PAG oil and I don't want to mess around with flushing that out. It was like that when I bought it, unfortunately. :( :(

But I would still not use it in a mineral oil system (R-12), as there are better choices available (note that I didn't say cheaper!)

:)

I just read on another forum that 12a is illegal in 17 states plus the District of Columbia. They were talking about something called Red Tek 12a.

Is this the same stuff as Duracool 12a?

Have a great day,

Larry

Red Tek 12a is very similar to duracool 12a. If people believe it is illegal don't buy it. People say alot of things. Show me the state law.

Amazing how complicated life became when we allowed government to "fix" another supposed ill for us by passing laws agin it. And there are those who police others for the government since their lives are so uncluttered and and are wanting to help us.(':eek:')
Duracool works great and blows very cold in my "84 300D.(';)')
When it gets to 105-115 degrees outside in Iowa I'm going to be real concerned since the 134a in my "88 turbodiesel Chevy van doesn't blow cold at 80 degrees!(':eek:')
When I convert my Chevy van to Duracool before summer I'll let you know wheather or not it works colder than the 134a in the system now.(':cool:')I'll be certain to flush the 134a as I wouldn't want to contaminate the Duracool.(':D')

State law
 

How 'bout Texas Statutes, Chapter 547, section 610?

§ 547.610. Safe Air-Conditioning Equipment Required; Sale of Noncomplying Vehicle



(a) Air-conditioning equipment:



(1) shall be manufactured, installed, and maintained to ensure the safety of the vehicle occupants and the public; and



(2) may not contain any refrigerant that is flammable or is toxic to persons.



(b) A person may not possess or offer for sale, sell, or equip a motor vehicle with air-conditioning equipment that does not comply with the requirements of this section and Section 547.103.



Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.




Or Utah?




41-6-154.10. Air conditioning equipment -- Requirements.

(a) The term "air conditioning equipment" as used or referred to in this section shall mean mechanical vapor compression refrigeration equipment which is used to cool the driver's or passenger compartment of any motor vehicle.
(b) Such equipment shall be manufactured, installed and maintained with due regard for the safety of the occupants of the vehicle and the public and shall not contain any refrigerant which is toxic to persons or which is flammable.
(c) The department may adopt and enforce safety requirements, regulations and specifications consistent with the requirements of this section applicable to such equipment which shall correlate with and, so far as possible, conform to the current recommended practice or standard applicable to such equipment approved by the Society of Automotive Engineers.
(d) No person shall have for sale, offer for sale, sell or equip any motor vehicle with any such equipment unless it complies with the requirements of this section.
(e) No person shall operate on any highway any motor vehicle equipped with any air-conditioning equipment unless said equipment complies with the requirements of this section.

Enacted by Chapter 71, 1955 General Session