You may be right about the transfer of heat in the high desert, but I have sold to many people in AZ and had no complaints about it not working in their climate although I've heard many complaints that 134a doesn't work well in high heat situations. I do know that overcharging duracool will cause a lack of performance. Their is a difference in the blends of hydrocarbons and your information may be coming from poor blends. Have you ever tried Duracool?

The problem with R22 blends is that they destroy seals and hoses that were designed for R12. You have to use barrier seals and hoses with systems using R22 blends. The R22 will leak out causing fractionization leaving the other components. I personally have never had a problem with Duracool separating in systems.

Charles, while I know that big companies do the things you mentioned... from what I have read over many years... R-12 is a very good choice for Mobile Systems...
Could you compare the relative fire hazard between the R-12 and the Duracool ?
Isn't r-22 what is used in most home central air systems ?
What is ammonia used for and why is it applicable there but not in Mobile AC systems ?

PS..ALL SYSTEMS FUNCTION POORLY IF OVERFILLED. At some point they don't function AT ALL... because this whole concept has to do with the changing back and forth between gas and liquid....

There was a post stating that R12 was okay with copper and steel but would corrode aluminum.

R12 by itself will not corrode aluminum rapidly. It is when it is combined with moisture that an acid is produced that will go through aluminum in relatively short order.

This is why it is important to EVACUATE THOROUGHLY. This corrosive action when combined with moisture is even WORSE with 134.

Always evacuate thoroughly.

Have a great day,

My one and only complaint with using duracool is when used in cooler climates like I drove 1000 miles in last week is it will freeze you out of the car. :D
r12 may have been the same way in this car but I never drove it with r12. 134a was never cold. It would get cool when the outside temps were 80 or less but never cold.

Greg,
ammonia was the first refrigerant used. My first job was loading milk delivery trucks after school. After loaded they were plugged into ammonia lines to cool everything but no cooling took place after the lines were removed in the morning. My guess of why ammonia was used in this application was cost.
I know of an old country store in Ky that still uses an old Coke cooler that uses kerosene to run an ammonia system and it is over 70 years old now and still cools as well as the day it was delivered. The system uses no electricity, only fuel oil. I have heard the first in home refrigerator systems used the same thing but I never saw one of these.
So now that this thread is way off topic anyone want to discuss politics, religion, or we can always debate which oil is better ;)

Rebootit, I don' know why you say we are off topic.. we are still discussing alternatives to R-12 and why some are appropriate and some are not,,, and relative advantages all the way around... However, you may have let slip which era you belong to with that ' milk delivery trucks job' ... if you meant to houses.... :D I even remember when the mail was delivered twice a day to houses...

Yeah, we did get off topic, huh. DuraCool is a nice alternative for R-134a systems, but not R-12 systems. I think AutoFrost (or possibly HotShot) are better choices for an R-12 replacement, and isn't that what the initial question was? Or we could talk about synthetic oil, Slick 50, and fuel line magnets increasing MPG. :D :D

the indy is gonna try to put the autofrost R414a into my system so we'll see (crossing fingers..)

Larry

I agree with you about evacuating systems. If 134a never comes in contact with air or moisture the system will last longer. The problem is how many people go to their local parts store and buy a quick charge kit with 134a in it. They don't know to purge the charge line. So for the most part they are injecting air with the 134a. People do not realize that once 134a comes in contact with air it becomes extremely volatile. cars can ingnite while they are traveling down the highway if they have a good pump and the orifice becomes clogged. Dupont has always admitted that 134a would ignite at 5.5 psi and 351 degrees.

Someone asked about flammability. All refrigerants are flammable once they are mixed with oil. R12 turns into phosgene gas once it is burned, but for the most part mechanics know this and are careful. Older mechanics knew when the flame turned green by using the old propane leak detectors that what came off was nasty. Now most of them use electronic leak detectors and don't realize 134a is much worse than R12 or R22. When Duracool burns it is non-toxic. I believe it turns into carbon dioxide and water, but I may be wrong.

Probably the reason ammonia is not used more often is because it cannot be patented. Many of your older motorhomes still use ammonia and propane to fuel it. If propane is so dangerous why do most motorhomes carry anywhere from5 gal. to 50 gal. tanks on them.

Rebootit If Duracool is to cold add about 1/4 can to the system. This is a fairly common complaint. When the low pressure safety switch goes bad or is bypassed vent temperature can drop down into the teens and moisture will freeze to the evaporator blocking the flow of air through it.

Leathermang If you broke open an evaorator and dumped everything in the system into the passenger compartment it wouldn't even come close to be enough to cause an explosion, but it would really stink. We add mercaptan, which is a stenching agent to all of our products as a safety factor.

Thanks for the information, Larry.

Charles, I am not worried about inside the cabin... I worry about in a medium wreck, surviving, but not being able to get out of a burning vehicle... Unneccessarily burning.... The refrigerant in the condensor has very little protection out there in Front of the radiator... and crashes cause sparks... Since diesel fuel is much safer to work around than gasolene I hate to up the probability of a fire in the engine compartment area unnecessarily.... However, I have seen those demonstrations done by the Texas Dept of Safety where they ignite a car filled with some of the hydrocarbon based refrigerants... BLOWS the glass out ....

R22 is used in most home and industrial units. These units run hard lines usually copper sometimes black steel. You almost never see any type of rubber lines on these units because R22 is hard to contain. Hot Shot and Autofrost are blends of R22 and not recommended for automotive use. The reason in my opinion that the price of R22 is still very low[about 1.10 per pound ] is because real refrigeration people know that pure propane will work in place of R22. The problem is getting pure clean product. 12lb of pure propane [instrument grade] runs about 300.00. So as long as they can buy R22 cheap they will continue to use it. Duracool 22a is basically pure propane [instrument grade] with an enhanced friction fighting additive added which will reduce your energy costs and extend the life of your equipment.

How much refrigerant did they "fill" the car with to get the windows to blow out?

Sounds vaguely like the 20/20 (or was it 60 Minutes?) piece on American pickup trucks with side gas tanks, where they videotaped a "crash" the resulted in a massive explosion. Later it was revealed they had to rig an explosive charge to the tank to make it look good, as the normal crash resulted in zero explosion. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

with the use of synthetic oil, Slick 50, and fuel line magnets along with lower head pressures of duracool I can now get almost 150 mpg while doing 110 mph :D
Yeah Greg it was for home delivery. Last company to do home milk delivery in the state of Ky. 5 years later they stopped home delivery and then 3 years after that sold the property to a drug store chain. However I am only 20 years older than the car I drive.;)