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#1
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The time has come that I have to deal with a 1980 300sd. The rebuilt head is on the car but the injectors are about 180 degrees out when you torque them down. So that one fuel injector return line nipple is pointed toward the valve cover. The other nipple is pointed away from the valve cover. I have searched on this but have found nothing. Any keywords to search or any suggestions greatly appreciated. I know I will have to buy some expensive tool to fix this.
Dad that has been enslaved to this car and hopes this is the last problem with this motor. I have to lift it and replace the upper oil pan day after tomorrow. I am worried about any tricks for putting the hood back on straight any knowledge with these issues greatly appreciated. Dave and matt San Jose Ca Last edited by mattdave; 01-03-2004 at 07:28 AM. |
#2
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Ok,,, have you checked to see if your hood mechanism has the 'STRAIGHT UP ' option ? My 1980 240 does and my 81 wagon did also...
Look at the area of the hinge .... and I have to ask this " Do you have any manuals for your car ? " There are things in the manuals which never get mentioned on this forum.... because the forum is not meant to be a ' full ' guide to complicated projects... more a backup which has the advantage of many people's experience and hindsight due to age...many of the most important warning and safety messages NEVER appear here... so it is dangerous to try to do some of these things just from happenstance of who answers a particular question ... OR.... the happenstance of getting the correct search words to use for scanning past posts.... |
#3
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I am about to install injectors too. I am also worrying about where the return nipples will end up. The manual pages I read do not say anything about this.
Any hints on getting the nipples to end up in desired location?
__________________
"Know other lessons I need to learn? TELL me. Tired of learning'em the hard way". Glow Plug Wait: [i} Time of silence in homage Rudolph Diesel. Longer you own a diesel. more honor you give". [/i] Life; SNAFU Situation Normal All Fouled Up, & FUBAR: Fouled Up Beyond All Repair -Now: Snafued Jeep TJ w/OM617 2Be daily driver & building SS M1079 w/Ambo boxed /live in Adv. Truck, Diesel KLR conversion -Sold 62 UNIMOG Camper w/617 Turbo, 85 300SD |
#4
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Quote:
![]() ![]() I'm sitting here trying to figure out what difference it makes as long as nothing leaks.
__________________
Jim |
#5
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Quote:
__________________
"Know other lessons I need to learn? TELL me. Tired of learning'em the hard way". Glow Plug Wait: [i} Time of silence in homage Rudolph Diesel. Longer you own a diesel. more honor you give". [/i] Life; SNAFU Situation Normal All Fouled Up, & FUBAR: Fouled Up Beyond All Repair -Now: Snafued Jeep TJ w/OM617 2Be daily driver & building SS M1079 w/Ambo boxed /live in Adv. Truck, Diesel KLR conversion -Sold 62 UNIMOG Camper w/617 Turbo, 85 300SD |
#6
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mattdave,
Since the hose that connects the injector nipples is quite flexible, It doesn't matter where the nipples are. P E H |
#7
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hope its the heat shields
The fear with the injectors is that this is indicative of a pre-chamber height problem. All the 5 cylinder turbo diesels I have seen in the junkyards they have been exactly parallel with the valve cover. I guess I should find a spec for the heat shield, may be I have the wrong size. And unfortunately the hood doesn’t have the neat latch that opens straight up and down. My manual instructions are remove hood install the reverse of removal. What about getting it to line up parallel to the fenders? I know there are helpful hints I am getting old and I forgot them. I do not want to learn the hard way again. I hurt my back so the upper oil pan project will have to wait. But your warning in regards to safety has convinced me too do that by pulling the engine. In stead of doing something stupid like trying to replace it while the motor hangs on the cherry picker and I lay under it replacing the pan. It is great time saver but a lousy idea. I will let you know what I find out about possible wrong heat shields. So much has gone wrong with this car it is frustrating how many people changing their timing chain guides find they have to replace there upper oil pan?
Dave |
#8
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Did you install the precombustion chambers or someone else ?
Did you install the head ? Were the injectors torqued to the correct value ? Were the injectors reinstalled into the same holes they came out of ? Did you wire brush the threads before you put them in ? I actually don't think it matters whether they line up ... but I understand your concern since the ones I have seen also line up.. |
#9
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I did and
The company that rebuilt the head did the pre-combustion chambers.
We installed the head. They were torqued to the right value. There was confusion regarding the numbering system used on the injectors they were tried both possible ways all 5 were tried in 2 holes a different set was tried all came out real close to the same I know I kneed new heat shields now since I understand they compress some and aren’t designed to be removed that much. Injectors were wire brushed no rust or pitting on seal surfaces. I also checked the torque of the injector housing were you disassemble the injectors into 2 parts its fine or too tight. The injectors lined up when removed from the car. I have no hands on experience with pre-combustion chambers or a good understanding of how it is designed. Does the injector heat shield sit on top of the pre-combustion chamber or the bottom of the injector well? For lack of name to call the part you screw the injector into? My worst fears which are clouding my judgment on this are that the seals were left out of the combustion chamber, or something else that will require removal of the head to adjust the pre-combustion chambers. I would like to hide my head in the sand on this one but I have seen a lot of these motors, hundreds and never a one was crooked not Evan a little. And I don’t want to learn the hard way that I should not have started it with out correcting the problem. PS do you think it is an appropriate question for the ask a tech section if I word it carefully and in a logical format. |
#10
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Mattdave,
The depth of the prechamber in the head is a function of the thickness of the sealing ring, item 52 in the atachment. The prechamber needs to protrude 7.8 to 8.4 mm from the surface of the cylinder head. Different thickness rings are available to set this distance. If the head was surfaced, a different size ring needs to be used. The orientation of the chamber in the head cannot be changed. The prechamber is held in the head by a threaded ring, which is what the injector screws into. The orientation of the injector is a function of the thickness of the nozzle plate, item 53, the amount of torque applied to the injector, the amount of torque applied to the threaded ring, and the thickness of the sealing ring. Start by talking to the people that rebuilt the head. If you are comfortable that they did everything right, then keep going. If this is gonna nag at you like a disapproving mother-in-law, or if you just have to see for yourself, pull the head and measure the prechamber protrusion. I think that the fact that the injectors don't point like they used to says that they did use different thickness rings. Jerry |
#11
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"If the head was surfaced, a different size ring needs to be used."
Also the reamer must be used to realign the glowplug hole to the precombustion chamber... I think that JerryBro has listed all the combinations ... but I don't think pulling the head is necessary... you can pull the precombustion chamber and measure that sealing ring (52)... The possibility that they were not reinstalled into their original holes may affect this situation... Also, threads are supposed to be " lightly lubed' for torque readings to come out correct... maybe a combo at several levels of torqueing cause this to be out ... and maybe their torque wrench needs calibration... you are just talking about a cumulative 1/4 of a turn ... right ? If you feel good about the torque readings by the installer.. I suspect you would be just fine using new ( longer ) fuel overflow lines and not worrying about it.. |
#12
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None of mine line up exactly, although they are more or less parallel the the valve cover.
Doesn't matter, and if the head was machined, they aren't going to line up like the used to since the lock ring isn't going to end up in the same place -- thicker seal ring to raise the tip of the pre-chamber to the correct height. Peter
__________________
1972 220D ?? miles 1988 300E 200,012 1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles 1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000 1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs! |
#13
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Quote:
__________________
"Know other lessons I need to learn? TELL me. Tired of learning'em the hard way". Glow Plug Wait: [i} Time of silence in homage Rudolph Diesel. Longer you own a diesel. more honor you give". [/i] Life; SNAFU Situation Normal All Fouled Up, & FUBAR: Fouled Up Beyond All Repair -Now: Snafued Jeep TJ w/OM617 2Be daily driver & building SS M1079 w/Ambo boxed /live in Adv. Truck, Diesel KLR conversion -Sold 62 UNIMOG Camper w/617 Turbo, 85 300SD |
#14
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what I have done now
Thank you so much for your help. I very slowly turned the engine over with a long breaker bar. Nothing seemed too hit or change the amount of force required to turn the engine thru a couple of revolutions. So for now I am going to concentrate on getting the upper oil pan replaced then run it with the injectors one half turn out of alignment. If it weren’t for the fact I would half to buy new bolts there at the end of there stretch limit I would just pull the head. I am not confident the head shop did a competent job. It is a very large shop but it only cost $150 then after they did it they tried to up the price to $300 saying they were not familiar with pre-chamber heads and it was a lot more work then they thought. It will nag me as long as my son owns the car though.
Dave |
#15
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Quote:
![]() ![]() This is probably not a good thing but it is really too late to let it nag you. Personally, I have never paid any attention to the direction the nipples point. In the cutaway shown above it shows them perpendicular to the valve cover ![]()
__________________
Jim |
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