some bad news for liesel the diesel...

I went to have my valves adjusted today. Having purchased the car around 2 years ago I'd looked through all of the old receipts and could not find where they had been adjusted.

My mechanic said that they were all super-tight but some were nailed down to the point that he couldn't even get a feeler gauge in there. Together we decided to back them off incrementally. He was concerned that if he backed off all the way to factory specs I would have problems.
I knew I had an oil leak, he said that it's probably from the front seals, and there's also oil in the air cleaner.
To boot, he said that usually it should be quite an effort to turn the engine over using the crank pulley but with my car it was pretty easy which may indicate some poor compression.

He said that my engine may not be as strong as I originally thought but that there was no reason for me to panic, it could run for a long, long time yet.
It still starts and runs fine and although I'm going through a little oil, it's not that bad yet.

He just suggested being careful with the money I stick into the car.

If it was a garage queen- rust-free and minty, I'd consider keeping it long-term and either taking care of the engine or installing a new one, but that's not the case, so I'm going to run it as long as I can.

[Tirebiter]

Not setting a valve correctly can give you problems. They were too tight and it was decided to correct them just a little?????And why didn't someone do a compression test ( after setting the valves correctly FIRST ).

[Eric Eliel]

Your valves were too tight AND therefore the engine is MUCH more likely to be easy to turn over (less compression due to tight valves).

I don't like the answer your mechanic gave you.

he said that in his experience when valves are so tight, setting them all the way back to factory specs can result in "dropping" a valve. I think that makes sense. He's seen it happen. Incidentally, he broke a wrench on one of them and had to bend another one.
He suggested I adjust them again later this year. Again, I trust him on this, he's not just trying to make some $ on me.
What he says doesn't change my maintenance habits at all, and I'm not getting ready to trash the car, I'm just going to be careful of the money I might put into other things, which is a good thing. We'll see how it is in another few months.

[adamb]

I personally would adjust the valves to spec now.
The primary reason is that the main way a valve cools is by having some clearance with the rocker when the valve can release heat when it touches the seat on the head. Valves can and will burn up if they are too tight, in addition to not realizing full compression potential. I think the advantages of adjusting to spec far outweigh the potential disadvantages.
Adam Bush

[TimFreeh]

Ask your mechanic if he has ever burned a valve by running an engine with the clearances set too tight.

I know you trust this guy but when you find a mechanic that thinks he is going to damage an engine by following the factory recommend maintenace procedures you better start looking for a new mechanic.

You mention you don't think he is trying to make $$$ off you - I'm just curious how many valve adjustment procedures does he think it will take to incrementally adjust the valves back to factory specs?

Is he going to charge you for each valve adjusting session?

[Tirebiter]

"Dropping" a valve is common jargon for the head breaking off of a valve. Is this what your mechanic feared would happen? And he said he has seen it happen????

Better check that guy's certifications. There are a good number of Master mechanics on this forum. I doubt that any of them would advise you NOT to set a valve correctly.

Please set your valves correctly and take a compression test.

For what it's worth I am ASE certified:
Master mechanic certs in automoblles;
Master mechanic certs in trucks, gas & diesel;
Master mechanic certs in engine machinist, gas and diesel;
Master certs in paint, body, & collision;
Undercar cert.

I'm so old that it was called the NIASE (National Institute of Automotive service Excellence ) when I first certed in 1974. Back then when you passed all your tests you were given their "General Mechanic" rating. Now it's their Master rating.

[bjcsc]

Originally posted by Tirebiter

For what it's worth I am ASE certified:
Master mechanic certs in automoblles;
Master mechanic certs in trucks, gas & diesel;
Master mechanic certs in engine machinist, gas and diesel;
Master certs in paint, body, & collision;
Undercar cert.

Man, I wish you were MY neighbor -

[Plantman]

bjcsc:

Just curious, which of all those areas do you prefer to work in?

I realize some if not all intermingle, but if you had a favorite.......

Thanks

[240Joe]

shawnster,

With the valves way too tight, you should have had lots of trouble starting your car up there in Wis-Con-Sin. Did you? If not, I'm not sure your valves were that tight after all.

I think your mechanic just wants more money out of you. After all, now you need another trip to him to get the valves right.

And is he sure it's the front seal leaking? There are lots of places for leaks in the front side of our diesels, many of which are very cheap and easy to repair.

And the oil in the air cleaner comment pretty much confirms that he doesn't have a clue about these engines.

IMHO, find another mechanic, learn to fix the car yourself, or sell it quick and buy a rice box.

240Joe

[vwbuge]

I don't get it either. Why wouldn't you adjust them to spec now?

[bjcsc]

Originally posted by bjcsc
Man, I wish you were MY neighbor -

Plantman:
Your question is really for tirebiter. I was quoting him, not that I wouldn't like to have that resume myself. That said, I can happily oblige you with any information regarding working horses!

He's just about the only guy in town who has worked on diesels for 20+ years, besides bringing it to a dealer, which I think I'd like to avoid.

He has seen valves "drop" after being adjusted from super-tight to factory specs, mainly he says because of the age of the metal itself and the fact that it can't handle going from one extreme to another (yes, I know that you may not think that factory spec is an extreme).

Who knows, perhaps he's seen it happen once and there were other circumstances involved but he had a bad experience- maybe the guy took him to court alleging that he did something wrong or whatever? If so, that's not an excuse for not adjusting my valves to factory specs but it may explain something.

I understand things to a certain point and beyond that point I have to trust him or any other mechanic. After finding the first few valves nailed down all the way he called me, explained things to me, made his suggestion and then left it up to me. I chose to go with his suggestion of adjusting them 1/2 way back to factory specs so that the engine can get "used to it". As far as we can tell, they have not been adjusted for 8+ years.

This is our only car. It was running OK until this point and it's still running OK. I'm heading out of town this weekend and could not afford (time or $) to have a valve go on me, so I agreed with him to err on the side of caution.

I'm not ready to undertake a valve adjustment myself just yet and I don't have a bevy of diesel mechanics to choose from, unfortunately.

I appreciate your guidance and constructive input.

especially the early 1700cc and 2 liter van motors, which would break the head off a valve if it was run long with zero or negative clearance and then reset to stock specs. But with those, because of the two piece welded valve construction, the only safe solution after one began to stretch at the joint and lost its clearances was to pull the heads and replace the valves. Setting them too tight wouldn't prevent disaster for long.

I don't think any of this unique to VW problem is relevant to Bender diesels.