Auto -> Manual Transmission Conversion Has Begun. - Page 14 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

TomJ · #**196** 11-10-2004, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lietuviai

I've searched and searched and I still haven't been able to find any FSM's for the MB trannies. I'd be afraid to tear into one without knowing what the specs are. I've only found a mediocre one for the automatics by ATSG.

I have one here. It belongs to Grimgaunt, he let me borrow it for a little while in return for rebuilding a few of his tranny's while I was at it.

LMK what you need for scans, but I think someone scanned the whole man'l in already?

lietuviai · #**197** 11-11-2004, 12:02 PM

Tom, I received a kind offer to download a manual from one of our members and am in the process of downloading it now. Thanks for your offer.
I have no fear to tear into one of these trannies now.

TwitchKitty · #**198** 11-11-2004, 01:16 PM

If that is a shop manual for the manual transmission, could I get a copy also? I have a 4-speed that needs synchros and I will tear into it sometime. Some documentation would give me some confidence. I took apart the Peugot 5-speed out of my old Cherokee without a manual, not a comfortable situation.

boneheaddoctor · #**199** 11-11-2004, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwitchKitty

If that is a shop manual for the manual transmission, could I get a copy also? I have a 4-speed that needs synchros and I will tear into it sometime. Some documentation would give me some confidence. I took apart the Peugot 5-speed out of my old Cherokee without a manual, not a comfortable situation.

OOOOOO I feel bad for you, those Peugot ( or was it Renault) transmissions Jeep used way back when were real junk.

Actually You can blame their partnership with Renault back then for that mess.

ytr1903 · #**200** 11-19-2004, 03:06 PM

I am slowly but surely getting the necessary parts for converting my 300D to a manual transmission. I have a possible source for the flywheel. They have two, but each has a different number stamped on them. One is 115-032-068-01 and the other is 127-002-1101. Are either one of these flywheels able to be used for the conversion?

I have also located a pedal assembly from a 115 240D. Is this assembly able to be used in my conversion?

I want to thank everyone on this board for their help over the last few months of my 300D ownership. It has been a joy to drive and a whole lot of fun to work on. The people here have what seems to be an endless well of knowledge on these cars and it sure makes maintenance and repair easier.

Tom

R Leo · #**201** 11-19-2004, 04:04 PM

First, what kind of 300D do you have: a 115 chassis or a 123 chassis?

On pedals...
If you have a 115, you're good to go with the pedals you have. However, I'm pretty confident in stating that 115 pedals won't work on a 123. A while back, I looked under the dash on my 115 manual 240D with this same question in the back of my head and came to the conclusion that the pedal cluster (at least at a quick glance) didn't appear to be interchangable.

I can't answer your flywheel question...maybe someone with an EPC can look up the numbers for you and answer this.

ytr1903 · #**202** 11-19-2004, 04:13 PM

R Leo,

Thanks for the reply. I have a 123 300D. I got excited when I went to the pick and pull today and saw a standard transmission 240D and then realized it was a 115. Back to the drawing board on pedals.

Tom

R Leo · #**203** 11-19-2004, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ytr1903

R Leo,

Thanks for the reply. I have a 123 300D. I got excited when I went to the pick and pull today and saw a standard transmission 240D and then realized it was a 115. Back to the drawing board on pedals.

Tom

Good luck!

kamil · #**204** 11-24-2004, 10:08 PM

It begins tomorrow.... Thanksgiving

The car is basically all parted except the engine bay is intact and all the transmission components. Tomorrow everything will be photographed like crazy from all different angles just in case I'm ever wondering what it's supposed to look like. After that I'm beginning with taking the drive shaft off and removing the tranny.

Hope it all goes well..... I'll try to document this procedure so I can set up a thread just like this one. It will take some time though.

Thanks

TomJ · #**205** 01-16-2005, 12:36 AM

Well, I FINALLY (after two years!) took my old auto trans flywheel down to the balance shop along with one from a manual 240 to get the skinny on what is what for balancing with these.

The one from the 300DT auto was off-balance by 23 grams, enough that it is most definitely externally balanced and would need to have a flywheel (from whatever) balanced to match.

So we tested the 240D flywheel and it was off by 13 grams. Again, enough that it would need to be matched.

For those doing this conversion in the future, instead of finding a flywheel from a 300D manual, you will do BETTER than that by having your donor 240D flywheel match-balanced to the flywheel you remove from your 300DT.

A 300D manual flywheel is STILL going to be "out of balance" by some amount and it's guaranteed to be different that the one from your vehicle.

REMEMBER THIS!!: Make DAMN sure you personally WITNESS MARK your crank and flywheel BEFORE you remove it.

This is so the new one (one from a donor 240) the shop match balances will index with the crank the same way as your original one.

It doesn't matter where you mark the two as long as they're matched (in other words, stamp the crank and the flywheel right next to each other somewhere in the circumference - pick a bolt hole to punch next to), as long as the new one is balanced according to that mark and then is assy'd according to the mark the balance shop will put onto the new one (so the new and the old will balance out the same according to the mark on the old one.)

I say this because some cranks/flywheels are not indexed/match marked at all, so make sure you do so BEFORE unbolting the flywheel from your engine!

This will give an IDENTICAL balance to what the engine had from the factory (something that any old 300D manual flywheel can't do)

wolf_walker · #**206** 01-16-2005, 12:36 PM

I thought it was a given to have the flywheel balanced?

The issue I have with the 240 is it's weight, or lack thereof...

R Leo · #**207** 01-16-2005, 12:48 PM

TomJ,
Are you saying that when doing the swap, you should balance the manual flywheel to the auto's flexplate/torque converter assembly? Or, would simply balancing the manual's flywheel be sufficient?

What kind of shops do this sort of work?

TomJ · #**208** 01-16-2005, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Leo

TomJ,
Are you saying that when doing the swap, you should balance the manual flywheel to the auto's flexplate/torque converter assembly? Or, would simply balancing the manual's flywheel be sufficient?

What kind of shops do this sort of work?

Since the TC is dynamically balanced at zero (with fluid), balancing the flexplate to the new flywheel is as good as we can get. In other words, the manual flywheel should be balanced to the same "offweight" as the flexplate from the car you're converting.

Since my 300D didn't have any identifying marks on the crank OR the flywheel and I didn't match mark them before removing, I have NO way of getting things right aside from balancing another manual flywheel and installing it and trying it TWELVE times till I get the correct index (the flexplate from my car is 23grams off balance.)

Maybe I can figure it out without mounting up the tranny each time with strain gauges or vibration sensors telling me when I'm "closer" to balance????

Hell, maybe I should just yank it and take the assy down to the balance shop and have them do it the right way.

All in all, it is pretty smooth as it is though, about as much vibration as any other 5 cyl and there is NO telling what the balance is like with just a stock on 240D flywheel (like you and I both used.)

Oh yeah, the point of the original post, the 240D flywheel I had tested is different in balance by TEN GRAMS than the flexplate from the 300, so even if a persons crank IS marked from the factory and you install the 240 FW in the same index, it's almost guaranteed to still be off far enough to be out of balance (>1/2gram.)

So no matter what, the 240D flywheel should be match balanced with the stock flexplate (whether it's factory indexed or you have to match mark the index yourself.)

One curious thing to me with my motor, since the stock flexplate is "off-balance", how did they index it properly with the crank on assy? I have gone over it and the end of the crank with magnifyers and so did the balance shop, NO MARKS that could be called indexes?

boneheaddoctor · #**209** 01-16-2005, 02:43 PM

Thats real interesting....and something to remember...........I may be doing that in the future..................

TomJ · #**210** 01-16-2005, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf_walker

I thought it was a given to have the flywheel balanced?

The issue I have with the 240 is it's weight, or lack thereof...

The point is, balanced to what? If you don't have the rotating/reciprocating assy out of the engine (crank, rods, pistons, flywheel, harm balancer, etc.) then you can't just take a flywheel to a balance shop and say "balance it". They need something to balance it TO. If we were dealing with an internally balanced engine, then yes, they could just zero balance it (no offweight balance), but these are externally balanced so they need to know how much counterweight to add to make up for the same amount of "off-balance" that the original flexplate has. That's why the caveat to mark the crank and flexplate BEFORE they are separated, so you can have a shop induce the same "off-balance" at the same place relative to the crank and install the same way.