Even if the exhaust on the 617 got up to 1000 F., I'm quite sure that the end of the pipe, where the clamp goes, will not be anywhere near this temperature. The exhaust pipe is at the very end of the manifold, at a dead end, and will be significantly cooler than the actual exhaust that leaves the cylinders.

We will see how it does on the 603 for a couple of weeks. I have several occasions to run the 603 at maximum power for 45 seconds or so to build up the temperature quite a bit.

Brian, my feeling is that if you decide that the exhaust plate requires a special sealant (to withstand the high temperature) which isn't a common retail item, then you should include it and raise the price of the kits accordingly; but if it's something you can get at McParts, then just let people buy their own and have some left over for other projects.

Unrelated question: When the EGR unit is removed, what do you do with the vacuum line running to it? I realize it's harmless to just tape it out of the way and ignore it, but a neater solution would be nice. :)

I removed all the vacuum lines, solenoids, and feeds completely:

http://www.meimann.com/images/merced..._solenoids.jpg

I then replaced the 4-port fitting with this 2-port, and also removed the larger black vent line entirely, cappinf it off back near the firewall, next to the brake booster:
http://www.meimann.com/images/merced...ac_fitting.jpg

:cool:

Do you scrub your engine clean daily or something? Man that thing is clean.

LOL! No, I replaced the cylinder head in spring 2002 and while everything was apart, I went nuts with a rag and WD-40 as cleaner. More photos are here if you want to check them out... it's much dustier now (15kmi later) but still fairly clean, I have no oil leaks north of the oil pan (knock on wood).

http://www.w124performance.com/images/OM603_head_replacement/

:D

gsxr:

Hey....I love your idea about yanking all the associated EGR tubing and other items.

You happen to know what the equivalent plumbing removal would be on a 126?

Chris
'85 300SD

No, sorry, I'm much less familiar with your 1985 OM617 motor. I'd just trace back and remove all the plumbing. As long as it's not tied to the tranny circuit, it can probably come out!

Blocking Plate??????
 

Why install a blocking plate. Just pull the vaccumn hose off and plug the hose.
If the EGR valve is leaking, I can see the need for a blocking plate, otherwise do the easiest first.;)
That EGR valve is part of the federal polution laws, and removing it could cause you some serious trouble in some states.
I am a firm believer that the EGR valve harms the engine. It lets heated exhaust air into the intake. Reburning the exhaust cannot be good for the diesel. Also, the colder the air going into the intake the better the combustion. Why? Because the cold air is more dense giving the engine more oxygen to burn.

http://www.w124performance.com/image.../EGR_leak1.jpg

http://www.w124performance.com/image.../EGR_leak2.jpg

Reply to gsxr's post
 

It looks like you have a problem that the EGR valve is trying to tell you about. Removing the EGR valve is not going to solve that problem!:(

Nope. Oil in the intake is normal. And my oil consumption is near zero, something like 1 quart per 6k or 8k miles... never hits the "min" mark between 10kmi changes with Delvac-1. This is on an OM603 with a KKK turbo, btw. Got 30.2mpg on my last tank (filled up last night) - woo-hoo!

:D

Normal????
 

I assure you oil in the intake is not normal. There is none in my 87 300 D Turbo. I think I must be missing something here. I have owned many diesels and that oil is coming from somewhere. I would be looking for the source.
I change my Shell Rotell 15w40 in the 3k mark. It is always down some. Maybe 1 quart. :confused:

None in your 87 300D? When was the last time you pulled the crossover pipe and peeked inside? ;) I'll be shocked if it's dry. There is even a note in the Mercedes factory service documentation that a small amount of oil in the intake is normal, it's mostly from the PCV system, with tiny amounts from the turbo seals (maybe). Usually you'll have a thin film of oil all through the intake charge pipes. One of these days I'll dig up the document and post it since nobody ever believes me. :D

BTW, it's smart to change your Rotella every 3k... don't use extended drains like I am without using a good Group IV/V synthetic oil.

:cool:

I believe you...
 

I had the trap oxidizer off to make a substitution pipe for my 300. I did not see any evidence of the oil film at that time. Mbenz put on one of their replacement pipes around 90 or 91 and there was no evidence of the film at that time. As it has been some time, I think I will look and see. The PVC valve has to give up some oil for sure. I will make a pic and upload it when my wife gets back from shopping.
I spoke with Ronnie Childress yesterday, who is the local Mbenz shop manager about this idea.
He gave me some pointers on the ALDA and the turbo. Things to look for. One thing he pointed out was a small filter inline with the vaccumn to the ALDA the he said gets stopped up and will cause all kinds of problems. It is hidden behind a hose on the water pump, in front of the head to the right. I'm going to block the Vac. line to the EGR valve and see if the performance increases.

The item Ronnie is referring to is a "strainer", a small filter in the hose below the 4-way fitting. It prevents dirt & crud from getting sucked into the pump. Good idea to change it, a new one is about a dollar. The ALDA is a totally separate circuit, that's under pressure, not vacuum... the ALDA source fitting at the charge pipe can get plugged with crud and kill performance drastically. Cleaning it out fixes the problem. Ditto for the solenoid valve between the charge pipe and the ALDA, you should be able to blow through it... if not, it needs cleaning or replacement. Easy to test with a boost gauge and a "T" at the ALDA, you should see about 12psi boost at full throttle while driving - if zero, something is plugged!

You should definitely disable the EGR and ARV (air recirc valve on the turbo) both, plugging the lines will suffice, although I preferred to remove the plumbing entirely as shown in photos on the previous page of this thread. Less junk in the engine compartment is nice.

:D

I get so much out of this forum.....
 

I took pics of my 87 300DT engine.
Only has 81K miles on it.
The post says the JPG file is too large!...Now What???
The file was only 288KB.

Yeah, the file size limit is very low (50k?) and there's also a pixel limit of 600x800! Very, very annoying. I post pictures to my server and use the "IMG" tags to embed them in a post. Your ISP usually gives you some free web space for this, but you have to learn how to upload with FTP, etc. Also, you can use Photoshop Elements or a similar graphics program to reduce the file size, it's not usually hard to get a 300k image down to 50-100k with no loss in quality or size, and with a little smaller dimensions you can probably reduce it enough to pass through the forum limits....

There is a BIG problem with doint things that way. "ARCHIVES" you read in here how often this web forum is so great and it is. Each time you put pictures some place where they wont stay you degrade the archives from this forum. Someone does a search and finds great information that a good picture really tells the information butttttttt.. unfortunately the link to the picture is dead cause it was done as you say above.

Geesh!
 

I got my photo down to 77KB, but any less and there will be nothing to show. Maybe the forum gurus need to change this limit.:mad:

Ah, but only if I kill the server. I own that domain and have no plans to remove it. It's hosted from a remote server farm, not under my desk. Minimal chance of losing this stuff. I'd be more than happy to upload to MBShop but their size limits are RIDICULOUS... just way too small!

:(

You can also use something like photoshop to reduce the number of colors in the picture to make it smaller.

You don't need to post a 2160x1140 picture to be able to see it well.

If it's a jpeg, you can reduce the quality (increase the compression) to reduce the size further. GIFs and other formats don't allow for this compression variability.

When I do post pix ONTO the board, I usually decrease the quality by about 70% (starts as a very high res. shot tho) and it STILL looks excellent.
Also, as you know, crop the pix to only what is relevent. And because of the restrictions on this board, as already stated, reduce the size to 800x600 or less.

Chris
'85 300SD

aircraft aluminum
 

:) How about making the plate using Aircraft Aluminum (7075)? I wonder if using that with a high temp gasket instead of copper sealant would do the trick...


Adiel

The copper seems to be more malleable than the aluminum. We need to be able to tap the copper onto the face of the exhaust pipe and have the copper take the form of the front of the pipe. A gasket will not work for this situation because of the design of the clamp. The clamp exerts minimal compressive force on the face of the plate.

7075 alumimum might also do the trick, if it can be had thin enough.

An update on the kits:

I had the shop make several stamped discs in a size of 1.50 inches in copper for the exhaust plate. The 1.50 is slightly larger than the pipe, however, this serves as an advantage when tapping the face of the disc to follow the face of the pipe.

I heated the copper with a propane torch until it turned blue and let it cool. The copper is now very malleable, which is very good because there is not a lot of room to work on the 617. The disc is held against the face of the pipe and tapped lightly on the periphery to get the copper to follow the face. While tapping, the disc is rotated, using one's left hand. After about two minutes, the copper takes on the shape of the pipe with relative ease. This is why the copper is the preferred material choice.

On goes the Permatex copper sealant and the clamp is installed and tightened just snugly. If the clamp is tightened too much, the copper will distort and the leaking problem will rear its ugly head.

Start the 617 to put it in the garage. NO LEAK. So, we are close to a final solution. I would like to test the 617 at high power levels to be sure that the Permatex will stand up.

When the 617 passes the test, we will be good to go!

The 603 is all set. It has no leaks even with the crudely fashioned copper plate made with tin snips.

I will provide the Permatex for those that want it for the additional cost of $5.00. For those that have it, the cost will remain at $25.00 delivered.

Do I have this straight?
 

So, I tap the copper plate onto the flange, then pull it off and coat the iside with that stuff, then put it back on and clamp it??

Is that right?

That's exacty right. The only qualification is that you do NOT tighten the bolt on the clamp very tight. Just enough to secure the plate. In fact, if you really try, you can just barely rotate the clamp if you have tightened it properly.

An update on the kits:

Both the 603 and the 617 have the copper discs installed with the Permatex sealant and both have no leaks. I am satisfied that the solution will be decent for the long term.

I will be manufacturing the intake plates and exhaust discs next week. The stainless button head cap screws are in and the gaskets are expected early next week.

I will provide the kit with or without the sealant. If you already have suitable, hi-temp sealant for the copper plate then the cost for the kit is $25.00. If you want the Permatex sealant (99% will be left over) the cost of the kit is $30.00. Your choice.

If you have not already done so, now is your last chance to e-mail me for a kit at: hpcs@csi.com.

If you have previously sent an e-mail, you are on the list. You do not need to send another e-mail.

I will contact everybody via e-mail when the kits are ready for shipment

An update on the kits:

The intake plates and exhaust discs will be completed by Monday.

The gaskets should be in by early next week.

The stainless button head screws are here.

I have ordered a quantity of the Permatex sealant and got a good price on it. Therefore, for whomever needs the sealant, and it is required to be leakproof, the additional cost will only be $3.00. So, the kit price, delivered, will be $25.00 without the sealant and $28.00 with the sealant.

If you are unsure if you have sealant that is good for 700 degrees or more, then you are strongly encouraged to buy the sealant with the kit.

I'll be e-mailing everybody today.

:cool: :cool: :cool:

Check's in the mail, Brian!

Will this mod work on the 606 turbodiesel engine?

Unfortunately, I cannot provide any input on the 606. Someone who has both the 606 and 603 or 617 might be able to provide an answer. The EGR valve mounting surface has to be the same and the exhaust port for the EGR valve has to be the same as the older engines in order for the kit to function.

I am fairly certain it will not work on the 606 turbo without additional electronic modifications to fool the computer, and that's if it will physically work. From looking at the EPC, it's possible the 606 turbo could use two of the round discs to eliminate the exhaust feed pipe. You can't use the blockoff plate because the EGR valve is integrated into the mixer housing, unlike the 603, where the EGR valve and mixer housing are two separate parts.

The kit may work fine on the 606 non-turbo, used from 1995-1997. At least it seems that way from the EPC...

:cool:

Don't know if this question has been asked or not, but how, if any affect will this have on the performance of the vehicle?

If your EGR valve was functioning correctly, you may notice improved part-throttle power and a little MPG increase. If the EGR valve was non-functional and not leaking, there will be no change. If your EGR was non-functional but leaking (exhaust into the intake), there may be a noticeable performance gain, depending on how bad the leak was (i.e., slight leak, or fully stuck open, etc).

Don't think of this as a smoking gun to gain power, think of it as keeping your intake clean, ALDA circuit crud-free, saving a few pounds of useless weight, cleaning up the engine compartment with fewer components and hoses, while possibly giving a smidge of power/MPG in return!

:D

GSXR,

Thanks for the reply.

Your check is in the mail (for two kits)!

The first group of kits is on the road.

The second group goes out today.

Enjoy them.

Let me know if you have any problems or need any additional advice.

Brian, just got my kit - very nice, you're the man! One question others may have..the metal gasket included, do the ridges face toward the intake manifold or the stainless plate? Again, great work on this and just in time to add to my rebuilt engine, which God willing will start up and run this weekend:)

Pete,

Since the replacement plate and the manifold are both dead flat, it won't matter which side the ridge is on. It should seal properly either way.

Good luck with it. Remember the difficulty of the clamp for the exhaust plate. Be very careful not to cross thread it, otherwise you are out of business, and, you cannot operate the vehicle!!

EGR test kit
 

Brian, Installed the kit today on 603 engine. Only problem was aligning bolt with nut in clamp as you described. Found ovalizing the proximal hole in clamp with rat tail file made it easy. Thanks again for offering this nice kit to us.

Mike,

Glad the kit worked out. Getting that bolt started is a royal PIA and it will cross thread quite easily. I never ovalized mine but I did spend a good 30 minutes with the 617 to get it started.

The 617 is much more difficult than the 603 due to the increased stiffness of the clamp.

If anybody is struggling with it, send me an e-mail for additional support.

I must appoligize. I keep forgetting to arrange to get some $$ out to you for a kit. :(

Not a problem George. Just one more day that you have to look at that butt ugly valve sitting there...............:D

Sorry, I havent sent the money, but Im listed as wanting one long ago. I have been travelling so much, I havent been on here as much as I'd like.

I have one issue though. When I pull the valve, there is a set of vacuum tubes that need to be plugged: the piggyback valve on the valve cover, and the two connections on the engine, that go fom the piggyback valve to the engine (temp sensor?) and the second going from the engine to the EGR. What would I use to seal all those off? I have tried searching and posted in another thread, and never found much good info. The best I saw was to drive a screw into the hole for the connection on the valve cover. Maybe this would work, but Id like a better solution to go with the nice setup I'll be getting.

Thanks,

JMH

You only need to plug one port.

You can plug the hose, right at the valve.

Or you can remove the hose from the valve to the coolant sensor and plug the coolant sensor with a rubber cap.

Or, you can remove the hose from the coolant sensor to the piggyback valve on the valve cover and plug the piggyback valve.

Or you can the remove the vacuum supply to the piggyback valve on the valve cover and cap the vacuum supply with a rubber cap.

The last suggestion would leave you with the cleanest setup.
Since there is no vacuum downstream of the capped port, you can remove all the vacuum hoses and not worry about the open ports.

Brian,
Thanks for the shipment of the EGR "test" kit. Installed mine this morning and it went very smoothly. Trying to determine what a "good amount" of sealant made me ponder for a moment yet after reading the tube I decided 1/8" plus due to using it on both mating surfaces should work. Locked it up and put the keys where my two sons won't grab them and start it up prior to the 24 hours. Thanks again.

Steve,

I want everybody to use a lot of sealant, because the process of putting on the clamp causes most of the sealant to squeeze out. This is due to all of the moving around that the plate undergoes when you are trying to get the clamp to start.

If you use too little sealant and it does not fill the gap between the plate and the manifold, it is going to leak.

Glad it worked for you.

Brian,
Good point to get out here, especially after I read my post. The 1/8" plus was heavy on the "plus" and it does flow out. I'll let you know after 24-hours if I detect any leaks but I certainly doubt it. Thanks again.

Brian,
As you probably expected, mine worked just great. No leaks. Thanks.