propane + veg oil = vroom-vroom
 

I have finally gotten around to taking the digital photos of my propane injection system and have provided a link to them at the bottom of this post.
To refresh what I did was as follows:
I took a motor and tranny from a 83 SD and put it into a 1973 International Travelall (suburban looking). I boosted the turbo to 13.5 lbs, cranked up the fuel via ALDA and intercooled it using a unit from a Ford probe. I also added propane injection, an overdrive unit and started running it on used cooking oil. (SVO)
The addition of the propane was the single BEST improvement as far as power and speed and was probably the simplest to do. Propane is 118 octane and the MB diesel LOVES it!
Before I get into the particulars I must say that if you decide to do this, it is at your own risk and I am not responsible!
How I did mine was starting in the back of the truck I had a compt that used to store the spare tire, like old station wagons had. It is big enough to hold 2 barbeque tanks. Mounted on the tank is an adjustable regulator that I have set at 1-2 lbs. (You must find whats right for you, trial an error). I also have a gauge that reads tank amount (optional) see pic.
From there you run LPG rated hose up to the engine compt. You then must mount a 12V fuel lock solenoid. You want to get that as close to the air cleaner as possible.That way there is no lag when it gets the signal to inject. The hose from the tank goes on one side, an additional piece goes on other side and will go to air cleaner area. (see pic)
To inject into the engine I made up a brass fitting using a male an female hose barb and mounted it to the end of my cone type filter (pic). For a stock air cleaner setup. drill a hole through the "U" shaped piece that connects the air cleaner to the turbo inlet. Theres even a small flat spot on it thats ideal..
As far as activation, You need whats called a HOBBS pressure switch. Use the one that adjustable from 1-10 lbs pressure. On the rear of the intake manifols is a plug. Remove it and screw in the hobbs switch.(see pic) What this does is whatever psi you set it for, it will close contact at that psi,
there by energizing the fuel lock, opening it, and propane goes
in.
To simplify, The fuel lock is grounded to the car. If you give it 12V juice it opens. I wired mine so that 1 switch energizes the system. When that toggle is on and I get to my preset boost amount (at hobbs switch), The lock opens and instant speed. I also added an additional toggle and what this does is power the lock manually. I use this coming off a light with a steep grade. Instead of waiting to build up boost, I hit the switch and propane shoots in instantly. (see pic)
As far as what boost psi I have it set at, I usually run at 5 lbs boost. I just lowered it to 3 lbs boost and now I have power instantly and haven't had to hit the manual button once.
As far as propane usage, I will tell you one experience I had. I drove from Ronkonkoma Long Island NY to Carlisle PA, approx 500 miles roundtrip and through a very mountanous area where the "juice' was on constant and I didn't even use 1 barbeque tank! The extra power is well worth the cost.
When I was setting up my pressure amount at the regulator,I initially had it set at 6 psi. WAY TO MUCH! You know your injecting too much when the engine pings. You only need to bleed it in.I like my 1-2 lbs setting.
AS far as the equiptment needed, My friend got me the fuel lock. Any large propane place should be able to help you out. He uses them on their fleet trucks as everything runs on LPG. Everything else should be easily obtainable.
Regarding the safety aspect, I will not get into it. There are tons of lpg vehicles on the road and I don't see them blowing up.. Also, although my vehicle once resembled a Suburban, I chopped the back, fused in a rear wall from a pickup and created a 4 door pickup. My LPG tanks are now outside the vehicle compt in the bed area
THis is all I can think of for now. I will leave you with this, If you want you Mercedes diesel to be a rocket of the line, do this. You will be amazed!!!!

link:
http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/westkill1/album?.dir=/9adc&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/westkill1/my_photos

from yahoo
 

The File You Are Looking For Is Inaccessible.
Please sign in and try again or check with the owner of the file.

try the link again. It was set as "private"

thats a lot of truck to haul with that motor......................

What type of veg oil filter set up do you have in that?

Oil is heated via a copper pipe heat exchanger in the aux. fuel tank tied into the cooling system. It leaves there hot and goes through a WEBB fuel heater/filter water seperator that has a 30 micron screen. It leaves there hotter and goes through a stock inline plastic clear MB filter.
It then goes through another stock MB spin on filter I salvaged from a wrecked MB.
The fuel then goes to a electric solenoid where either the veg or diesel is sent to the lift pump and then the injection pump. The diesel filtering system is totally seperate from the veg. The return line is also controlled by a solenoid. When on diesel, fuel is returned to tank. When on veg, its looped back to pump. If I delay switching the return solenoid after switching back to diesel, the veg filter gets back flushed with diesel making switch over to veg sooner next time.(return fuel has no where to go but back up the veg line)

It sounds sort of complicated, is it a "homebrewed" system? I'm thinking about making the switch to WVO in my 300D with the price of diesel being like it is.

for the Archives
 

THANKSSSSSSSSSSSSSS mucho for the pics and write up. I plan to do the same thing to my 617 Turbo and you have saved me COUNTLESS hours and brainstorming. Besides that you proved it works. In discussions in this forum about adding LPG to the 617A, some have been predicting potential doom to the engine because of issues about ignition of the LP in the prechamber.


PS. Could you kindly post the pictures in this thread using the attach file method. Reason being the odds are good this website will archive the pics and the related threads for the next hundred years where yours may be available only for a couple months, year etc.

Sorry, dont mean to sound like a Forum police. Just know what its like finding a GREAT GREAT thread like this one in the archives with all the pics no longer available.


AGAIN MUCHOOO THANX.

PS (below is the pic of the Rig I will be adding this too)

HERE is the thread were we twisted Westkill's arm to get us some pics.

Westkill,

Hate to be a PITA but can you fill me in more on the intercooler you snagged from the ford. Also how you plumbed it into your setup?

Where do you live? What can I do to encourage you to get me/us an even more detailed account and pics of your setup? Dont know about others but I need these extra Ponies REAL BADDDDD and you got me all excited like a lonely dirty old man at a strip joint :p

The svo sysyem is not complicated at all. Read everything you can at the link I provided below. Everything from filtering to collection to installation is covered there. Mike


http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=cfrm&s=447609751&f=898605551

coachgeo , I sent you a PM

Thanks Mike, that forum is great place to get my start.

Cool, I have a question, what is the "purge" switch for, is that a pump that somehow gets the SVO out of the lines? (if so cool!, how does it work?)

purge is nothing more than what I call my return line solenoid. It in effect purges any air in the line back to the diesel tank. for instance:
Say I decide to switch over to veggy. I throw both the veg and loop (purge) solenoid switches. Now I feel the truck starting to struggle. Possible air in line. What I do is shut off the "purge" switch and all return fuel, including vegy goes to the diesel tank. Once I smooth out, I flip the switch and I am back in a loop mode. problem solved.
Shutdown:
When I am a few miles from my house ,I throw the Veg switch off switching back to diesel but I leave the return(purge) switch activated. The return fuel has no where to go but back up the veg line backwashing the filters with is now a diesel/vegy mix. A little hard to explain without a picture diagram. The next morning I can switch over sooner because the filters in the vegy system are really full of about 80% diesel.
The last three days here on Long Island its ben 70 during the day and 50 at night. I have not been flushing the system before shutdown as a test and the truck starts instantly on cold vegy each morning . Amazing!!!
By the way, The grease I got is from a chineese food restaurant and boy my exhaust smells good...... Mike

propane pics
 

here is his propane pics for the archives.

another
 

12v fuel lock solenoid

mo
 

Hobs pressure switch

mo mom
 

engine compartment

almost
 

air cleaner

getting there
 

Dash switches

the beast this 617A w/lp booste was installed in

IH Travelall

Coach, you even transplanted the original radiator w/ coolant tank. Would the IHC's original radiator been too big for the OM617?

nooooo no no no...... not me. This is westkill's rig. I just posted the pictures here from his yahoo page so that they will be archived for future reference.

I got to agree with ya though. He did one hell of a transplant didn't he.

I wanted to keep everything mercedes where possible. The MB radiator fit perfectly in the IH radiator support. The car runs nice and cool. The only fitting I had to buy was a MM to SAE fitting to install the IH oil pressure sender so my gauge would work. The stock MB temp sender works my IH gauge perfectly. I even used the gas pedal assembly from the SD in the IH.
The funnieset thing was the stock IH steering box hoses screwed right into the MB pump! No fittings required. The motor sits on MB motor mounts too. I made up 2 wedge pieces that I welded to the frame for the stock mounts to "sit on".
This conversion actually was quite easy. I love to weld and fabricate so it was a good work out for the brain. Maybe I'll put a 617 in a Scout next......

OOOPS!
 

Coach and westkill, sorry about the mix-up. I made the mistake of only looking at the poster of the reply

I would LOVE to have the skills you have West(s)kill. I want to put the engine in my datsun diesel into a Datsun Z (bolt in near about) or a 4x4.

I see your a scout nut. I'm a rockcrawler type lost in FL where rocks dont exist. Sold my heavily modified; well used/abused, TJ to buy my Dieselized Unimog. It will be my adventure camper that keeps up with the Jeeps LOL.

Re: OOOPS!
 

No problemo lietuviai. I just didnt want anyone giving me credit for something I didnt earn. West(s)kill earns the credit. As you pointed out he did a hell of a job.

oh.... and Westkill. Are you aware there are injectors for the 617 that are designed for harder working 617's! This engine was also used in some Trucks and G-Wagens. Check w/your Bosch guy. It is said they will give you better spray pattern for vege and I'm sure it will give better performance for your and my heavier needs

I didn't know that about the injectors. Something to consider. Coachgeo, did you get my PM? Mike

Yep Yep.. got it now. Sorry I should have let you know directly. I deleted most my post referencing that I was waiting for it so not to cluter up the thread but then never told you. Duuuuuhhhhhh on my part. Again, sorry

Got a lot on my plate right now and have that contact info you PMed me set aside for a time to yack with you.

Hey Westkill, great job.

I am planning a 300sd into a 1965 Toyota Land Cruiser Wagon (FJ45LV). I am guessing you put in a divorced NP205 transfer case behind the MB auto-tranny. That is my plan anyway.

On getting propane parts around here, the suppliers I have gone to have 1 of 2 responses:

1. Blank stare and drool down chin; or
2. "we only sell to certified installers."

I was afraid of a problem getting the propane stuff. I lucked out and got the stuff from my buddy who works for a big Propane company. I will find out where they get the stuff from and see if I can get some to distribute to anyone who needs it here. Mike

my understanding is you can get the needed parts over the counter at any large LP place. It is all orderable. The Hobbs switch you can get through Napa etc.

I have a slightly different system in parts waiting to be installed. The concept is simular to Westkill's though. I bought it off a guy on Ebay. He gave me a special deal though. I plan to be injecting the LP straight into the intake manifold. Just after the Turbo port to ensure better mixing. I will also have the ability to inject water, alcohol or a combination of the two.

Ive been trying to fully understand the way to measure the amount of LP to inject. THANKS WESTKILL! The plans I got with my parts were confusing me. and this thread has really cleared up a lot for me. Course I confuse easy LOL.

Hi, cool project, I am just starting to read about SVO and I think I am headed that way. I am on the Gulf Coast and some of what I have read makes it seem like I can filter some oil and dump it in the tank with no modifications (300D normally aspirated).

Does your propane only kick in when your foot is to the floor or does the rush of power catch you by surprise sometimes?

You can set the propane to inject whenever you want. I have mine that when I hit about 3lbs boost, it bleeds in, about half throttle I guess. Sometimes it does catch me by suprise though. When your in the stop and go traffic, you build up boost then back off etc. , at these times I just shut the system off. No sense wasting the gas. Mike

Where on the gulf coast? Do you mean the Gulf coast of FL. ?

Ok, I can find the Hobbs switch and I can come up with the gauges, etc. to attach to the tank. But I haven't found a source fore the fuel lock solenoid. Can you provide the manufacturer's name on that and I will track it down. thanks.

We are in Alabama, usually only here for a few months at a time, now since November.

I just got this car and as soon as I get it running as good as it will run on diesel, I will start playing with mixing in some WVO/SVO. I am learning to test for problems and buying some new tools. Soon I will be ready to go veg.

Ever heard of a Propane start-up system for help on cold starts? Seems like it could be an alternative to a two-tank system here in the south. Also could be used as a limp-home system if fuel system problems occur.

Cool thread and lots of great info! I’ve often toyed with the idea of propane. Hey Westkill, I know you’re getting bombarded with questions but as a guy that’s been there, how do you think propane would work with a normally aspirated engine? I’ve got a 2.4 diesel in my old Land Rover and wouldn’t mind a bit more power. As I don’t get any boost pressure, I would have to operate it manually of course. Would you assume a reasonable power benefit?

Thanks

Jim

P.S. Here’s a picture from Mosquito Pass in Colorado.

http://roxs.us/bioimages/jimmos.jpg

Jim,

The guy I got my kit pieces from never used LP inject on turbo car; only NA. He loves it enough that he decided to build a kit to sell. He still drives his NA cars that are injected. An old Datsun Maxima and a ford truck.

I agree with what coach said. I think propane will provide a great power assist in any diesel. As far as injecting it, you would have to do it manually. The only time I found it won't run on propane is at idle. Use a spring loaded toggle and only hit it (hold it on) when you need it. Just a thought.... Mike

Thats my plan. I purchased from a good mom and pop hardware store switches designed for power saws. These have a lock mechanisim that must be pressed before you can throw the switch. I bought this type so me or no one else can accidently hit the LP booste. I was thinking of attaching it to the gear shift. Its a trigger. You push to ulock with your thumb then you squeeze the trigger.

the kit parts I got including switches that you mount somewhere on the gas pedal assembly simular to an electric/mechanical passing gear switch on the pedal arm. His intent was that when you punch the fuel pedal it would trigger booste.

Last I talked to him he had just installed two such switches on the pedal and two inject systems in his; new to him, old diesel truck. First switch comes on sooner in the path of the pedal for smallll boost and then a second one for more LP when he punched the throttle to the floor. On a long trip pulling a boat he was very satisfied with the results.

Why not use the Transmission "kick-down" switch to operate an electric valve for the propane. It will only inject when your foot is on the floor. Is that when you need the power, or what?

You can always use the power antenna switch for this. Many W123's no longer have functioning power antennas anyway so it can be used for something useful again.;)

The power antenna was controlled by the Becker radio on my W123 300D.

If the Rear window demister is inoperative you could use that switch, but I still vote for the kickdown switch. It would be effectively a "seamless" integration with the vehicle, giving power boost only when you need it.

IMHO the kick down for the tranny may not be the right place. I dont think you want the tranny kicking down at the same time new oummph of LP is sent to the engine. I would think you want the boost to occure minutely BEFORE the tranny kick down. That's just a poorly educated guess though.

My 300D has a seperate antena swithc. My antena actually works too. Well sorta. It comes 1/2 way down. Not sure if it is suppose to come all the way down.

Trick is where you can safely mount a propane bottle in a W116

When I add propane to my 123 I am planning on aquiring a vehicle-grade horizontal tank and mounting it against the front of the trunk, centered side to side. I figure this is the furthest point from potential impact.

now where does one find vehicle-grade horizontal tanks? That would be safe to mount in a trunk.

VW camper van for one. You can get them from Larger LP places that sell LP appliances and do LP Auto conversions. If they dont have it they can order them. Be aware. The tanks cost several hundred dollars.

PS. You CAN'T mount a barbaque (vertical) tank horizontal, or visa-versa

Where would I mount a tank in a TD? No matter where I put the tank, it would be inside the body with me.

My kick-down switch does not do it's job (The transmission still downshifts correctly anyway :confused: ) and I need all the help I can get off the line.

I did not catch this if it was already discussed...
Does the fuel have to be turned up for the propane to do it's thing or will slightly over riching the ALDA get the LP's results?