I own a 1998 E300 TurboDiesel and recently had my local independant mechanic visually inspect the front perch spring area. He identified rust. I then wrote a letter to Mercedes-Benz USA, Customer Assistance Center, explaining the situation, my love for Mercedes and the unsafe situation with the front perch springs. I asked Mercedes-Benz USA to authorize the local dealer to perform an inspection of my vehicle and take appropriate action.

About a week later, my local dealer called and asked me to bring the vehicle in for an inspection. I dropped the vehicle off later that day. After two days, I received a voice mail stating that my vehicle did indeed need to have the perch springs replaced and this cost would be picked up by Mercedes-Benz USA. The local service manager stated that I was going to have to stop by and sign an authorization form, which authorizes the work to be performed. There is also apparently a clause in this form which states that Mercedes-Benz USA is not responsible should something occur with the front perch springs a second time. The service manager told me there is a new design for the perch springs and there should be no problems in the future.

This is all I could have hoped for. I will post another reply after the vehicle is returned to me. I would also be willing to send a copy of my letter to those who wish to see it.

Is there any recommendation or preference as to whether the spring perches should be inspected by a dealer or other shop? My 1999 E300 has less than 60,000 miles and I have looked and my spring perches and I see no evidence of corrosion, however, I am still concerned about them. Since there is no corrosion I am concerned that if I go to a dealer it will be ignored.

I wonder if I had talked to MBUSA first if I could have got them to cover 100% of my expenses. Oh well, at least I got 50% out of them. If there ever is a recall then I may be entitled to get the other 50%.

ncof300d, only an MB dealer is authorized to order this kind of repair and have MBUSA at least partially pay for it. If you go to another shop the cost will be entirely yours. Unfortunately the only way to properly inspect the perches as far as I know is to peel off the undercoating. Maybe there's some sort of ultrasound that can be used instead. In any case I'd ask the dealer how they performed the inspection.

mb quality control / lawsuit
 

I don't own one of those cars, but from a legal point, any lawsuit against MB should be class action. To sue individually using an attorney working a contingency basis, they'd wisely not handle the case. But, with suit's involving a class action, there are plenty of law firm's in the State's who would fall over themselve's to handle the case on a percent contingency basis. With class action's you first have to identify the name's of those affected (owning those vehicle's) and, particularly, those whose spring mount failure's involved accident's and/or injurie's. Generally, when the defendant, which could include MB as a corporation, the CEO, Engineering Head, etc. The likely result would be a quick negotiated settlement to avoid the PR damage of losing in court and a quiet as they can make it free repair on all of these car's. Keep in mind that any personal injurie's get treated the same as individual's whose mount failure cause neither accident nor injury to self or other's; that is, every identified MB owner of these vehicle's get's their monie's divided equally among individual's. The firm's handling these cases start with an initial cut of the monie's based on quick negotiated settlement, if it goe's to court (unlikely), then the law firm get's larger percentage. In the event of a favorable settlement in court with MB appealing, then the law firm's increase's further. The likely negotiated settlement can be expected, umm, let me say modest. Free repair is likely with additional monie's from harm's mentioned previously. Individual suits, though I am not sure of this, might not be possible following a closed case class action. But, if MB think's they only have to deal with individual suit's, with no class action, they will spend the individual who is the plaintiff into the Stone Age (plus, count on your case taking some year's to settle). Even though MB would spend much more to fight individual suit's, they see it to their advantage to discourage more individual suit's. So, in my opinion (I'm not an att'y) it is much better to collect individual name's who own these cars (including those without failure), write the part's of the complaint involving what you see as design flaws in as professional a manner as you can. Then write various firm's who specialize in class action suit's and see how it goe's from there. They'll likely first come back with request for more information. Give it to them. Class action suit's that turn out with favorable judgement's make these firm's extraordinarily rich. But, you must first approach these firm's with no expression's of anger, they don't care about that. They want to be able to understand the sound basis of requesting class action and their chance's of winning.

One added caveat, in certain sort's of suit's, and I don't know if this type is affected, ruling's have been made that the plaintiff's have to pay the taxes on the law firm's cuts. I'm a Democrat, but Bill Clinton got this jewel on the law books on his way out of the Presidential Office. So, I'd sure find out in advance whether paying the law firm's taxes is in effect.

One last point, the law firm won't fight to death to maximize your damage's monie's, they'll balance their time invested with the wisdom of negotiated settlement. And, they are particularly wary of having to take it to court as nothing is certain as far as bench or jury trial money damage's are ordered. So, if you decide to proceed, with class action, don't expect the sky. Ask for abstract's of other class action's they've represented.

My personal preference (though I'm not affected since I'm not an owner) is to have everyone you know is affected be a signee on a letter to MB asking for full and immediate fixes. Politely tell them you do not want to be forced to bring a class action. This will give them the message that you will go to class action, which is more costly to them than to just fix their dangerous screw up.

In addition to MB I also blame the NHTSA for sitting on their asses and doing nothing about this problem, despite many reports from owners like myself. They seem to be more worried about engines shutting off unexpectedly on some other cars than the suspension falling apart. The NHTSA can force a recall if it wants to but last time I checked they hadn't even opened an investigation.

BTW, why do you put an apostrophe in front of every 's'? It makes your post difficult to read.

suspension
 

My apology for the xxx's making the post difficult to read. The actuaries at NHTSA are the original people that see some statistical anomaly, if one exists, and then look further to see if it's worth investigating as to whether it is a hazard due to design, assembly, or owner operation. Further, the number of these MB models in the State's is small in comparison to say the Firestones failing on Fords Explorer several years back. The Explorer was an unstable automobile to begin with even in the absence of tire failure. Because of the relatively small number of the MB models in question, that puts the problem back in priority. If the failures have resulted in few deaths as a direct result of the failure, then that puts it further back as a priority. The biggest thing though, in my opinion, is that NHTSA doesn't even have the MB bracket failure as an issue. If a statistically large portion of MB owners with failures or just concerns report them, then the NHTSA will maybe at least take a preliminary look. My guess is that MB-Germany as opposed to Daimler-Benz/Chrysler is a further reason the NHTSA would shy away as they might not have good access to MB's information, even assuming that most of these MB model owners complain to the dealership. It's not a dealership problem, it's an MB-Germany problem. So, in essence, bottom line, there are statistically too few of these models to get caught on NHTSA radar; that is, it's not the threat of death/injury that gets NHTSA attention, it's the observed death/injury per failure, and whether it gets reported to NHTSA; so, one needs to see a much higher percentage of injury/deaths from bracket failure on these models than they did on the Firestone/Explorer because statistical signifigance was reached with the Explorer. NHTSA involvement, saying they do get involved on this issue, is a cold, cold process. They are more interested in actual injury/deaths rather than the potential of injury death.

Yup, like any government agency, the NHTSA is purely reactionary as opposed to forward-thinking or whatever the right term is. People have to die for action to be taken, yet this particular problem is completely preventable. I just wonder how the Daimler-Chrysler management will defend itself in court once the lawsuits start rolling. I think there have already been enough cases reported to and addressed by the dealerships that the management has to know about this problem and it won't be able to just state in court that it wasn't aware of it. It would be in DC's best interest to issue a voluntary recall and thus show good faith in addressing the issue.

But if DC did, could it be viewed as an acknowledgement of fault and may not play well in a court when someone sues?

Indeed. The class action attorney's job is to maximize $$ per hour worked. The defense attorney's job is to minimize $$$ paid out. The plaintiffs' attorney and the defendant are represented in court. The plaintiffs are not, their lawyer is too busy representing himself. The end result is the lawyers get rich, the defendant ditches a boatload of liability, and the plaintiffs are left holding the bag.

weary owners
 

Mitch, so true. And still getting the MB dealership to fix the things is distant from anyone's mind. Justice is about law, lawyer dynamics, not fairness to the member's of the class filing the original complaint.
thirty seconds of time, sad to say, on one of the cable news station's would do more to help the owner than anything else. Yet, that is a story of no particular interest. Jokingly, maybe if the pad bracket failure could get tied to Heraldo opening Al Capone's vault, then we'd make some progress.

I guess I don't understand MB's logic...if they really solved the problem through redesign then why aren't they willing to take any responsibility for it? I'd like to see exactly what they are asking you to sign away in return for them agreeing to fix this.

I am a mechanical engineer. When I was in college I had a professor who came from the former USSR. There he was a bridge designer. In the USSR when you designed a bridge to hold a certain rated load they made you stand UNDER the bridge when it was loaded to test it the first time...now THAT's accountability. It also is a good way to eliminate bad engineers.

There were no "release" forms the engineers asked to be signed...if the bridge fell down it was on top of them, so they designed them correctly and made sure they were built right. MB should learn from this.

So let's say you find a nice 98-99 E300D with the spring perches in good shape. Is it inevitable that they will fail at some point?

Why hasn't this problem driven down the prices for these cars?

I'd think that if it has gone 7-8 years and still looks perfect, I might buy it and spray that entire area with diesel fuel after every visit to the car wash.
If there is a major problem with a car, and 2% of the potential buyers know of it, the effect on market pricing will be negligible.

"sad to say, on one of the cable news station's would do more to help the owner than anything else."

Ok, I have a thought, as I was listening to the radio program called the "CAR TALK by brothers Tom & Ray", why dont we all attempt to voice our problem on this show, their phone # is 888 227-8255. I have been trying for an hour now but the line is busy, but I am detemined to get on this program and bad mouth MB for this screw up. The program enjoys a large listenership and who knows something good might result from this effort.

Vahe
E320 97/ 67K
240D 77/350K

I think it depends on where the vehicle is and what kind of driving conditions it has been exposed to.

I bought one recently in the Pacific NW and had the spring perches checked by two different MB mechanics and they didn't see anything. Not only that, but neither shop has ever heard of the problem until I mentioned it and these are both shops that have been doing MB only work for a very long time (decades).

If I was buying a car that had seen a lot of snow and salt or was near the ocean I may be more concerned. You just need to get it checked and from what I've seen here it's fairly obvious there's a problem when you see the perch peeling away from the chasis.

I've only owned my 1999 for a short time now, but it drives more solidly than our 2005 car and gets much better gas mileage. I'll check the perches from time to time and not worry about it too much. There are far more likely dangers on the road that could kill me than this issue.

Another w210 (an possibly other models) rust problem
 

I noticed some light surface rust low down between the rad and the engine on our E320. I decided to take the spray shield off under the car and get a better look. What I found, was that the subframe crossbeam had started to rust (Front of part 122.).

Because this supports the front suspension, it might be just as well for others to check theirs too. Plastic sprayshield comes off easily - about 8 screws to remove. Seems that moisture and salt must get trapped in there and they don't get washed out.

I have contacted MB to see what they have to say. As with spring perches, this could be a serious problem if left unattended

Today I was at the dealership where I purchased my 1999 E300. I stopped by to get the radio code number. (This did not change a thing.) Anyhow, while I was with the service manager about the radio code I asked him about spring perches on W210's. He said that he had very heard of such a thing. At that point I was not sure what to say. I would like them to at least inspect them. I was wondering if there might be a service bulletin number or the like that I could tell him to reference.

Realize I am taking what the service manager told me with a few bags of salt. I have contacted this service department twice via email without any response. Later I sent an email to the owner of the dealership about the lack of response. I have received no response from him. (Note: I did not received any email delivery failures) When I was at the dealership today I noticed that the sales manager and salesman that I dealt with back in April when I bought the car were no longer there. Also, many of the other names of the current sales personnel looked different. I don't think that this dealership (Shaver Import of Fort Wayne, IN) can keep employees. I really wanted to rant to someone at the dealership about there lack of response to my contacts, however, after walking through the offices today I felt like it would not prove a thing because this dealership is a sinking ship. When I purchased this car the salesman and sale manager constantly bragged on and on about how that Shaver Import rates way over other Mercedes dealerships in customer service. (I believe that this must be service for the owner’s mother) All I know is that today really burnished in me today that I will likely never buy another Mercedes new than a W124 chassis. There new cars are crap and the dealerships are worse. If Dieter Zetsche is going to fix Mercedes he better be sure to rain hell fire down on the dealerships as well as the product.

Sorry for venting. I feel much better now as I feel that you forum member would understand my frustration better than anyone else.

Thanks,
Nate

Find a better dealer. A good dealer won't play stupid. MB seems to be doing a good will repair on these cars now.

I'd respond to the guy that said he never heard of this like this:

"get on the phone to MB and they will educate you"

Thats why I use MB of North Haven. They don't bs you with this crap and waste everyones time.

ncof300d, if you read my previous posts in this thread you'll see that I initially got the same response from my dealer. But I was persistent and I eventually got MB to cover 50% of my expenses. If you can't find another dealer, you'll have to show some knowledge about this issue. For example, tell them about all the complaints you've read on the NHTSA website, the Canadian campaign about this issue that we talked about earlier, and the cases of people like me and other forum members. For your own sake, did you do your own visual inspection yet? If you don't feel comfortable peeling off the undercoating, at least turn your wheels all the way in and out or raise the vehicle and inspect the area visually yourself.

I wanted to update the forum members with respect to my 1998 E300.

I signed the agreement Mercedes asked me to sign. They then kept the car an additional week, performed the spring replacement and returned the car to me. There was no charge for the work.

Spring Perches broke 12-16-05, columbus ohio
 

(I am a female with no car knowledge-have always taken my car to the dealership) I've been reading the responses for over an hour. I am in shock. First, I will inform you that my 97' E320 has been to the shop every other week since November '05. I was driving my car and it felt like I had a flat tire. I pulled the car over and investigated. No flat. I was about 2 miles from my house but I knew something was wrong so I drove with the hazard lights on. I later inspected the car and noticed that the driver side was lower - it appeared that the front frame was sitting on the tire. I got on the internet Saturday and found this site. I started posting my questions. Long story short = someone mentioned spring perches. Sure enough, the dealership calls and its the spring perches. Estimated cost $1600. The dealer offered to pay 50%. They lead me to believe that they were doing it out of good faith since I've paid over $2500 dollars in repairs since Nov '05. I mentioned to my uncle who is an attorney and he feels that I should pay for the repairs then file a small claims case against the dealership. Before I do this I need for somene to answer this important question for me. Should the mercedes technician have seen the rust while replacing my front brakes and rotors?

benz1gal, I'm sorry to hear you're another victim. Good thing nobody got hurt. As to your question, it depends on whether the rust had made it to the surface. I think it's quite possible that your mechanic didn't notice anything suspicious even though he was working on that area of your car. A lot of times the rust is hidden underneath the coating.

The scary answere to your question in a resounding NO. As you can see in the first post, which is my car, all of the rust was hidden beneath the sealant and perch itself. This is a major problem. I remain convinced that if this failure were to occur at high speeds, someone would die. Unfortunately, this may be what MB is waiting for until they do something proactive about it. This is way I now drive a Lexus (I secretly still have MB blood - for 4.5 cabriolets)

This would not be a proactive response, it would be reactive. Proactive would mean that they recognized the problem, either by their own data or data reported by customers and repair shops, and took action to correct it before some one got killed or injured.:mad:

After reading all nine pages of activity on this topic, I am going to get my spring perches checked. I also was wondering why no one who had this problem has not filed a complaint with the NHTSA to start an investigation. After reading the NHSTA complaints site which contained such matter as cigarette lighter not functioning, why such a serious problem has not been reported and investigated. Please anyone who has had this problem, especially while driving, contact NHTSA and file a complaint http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

That's totally untrue. There are many complaints in the NHTSA database about this problem, and at least some people here including myself have already filed complaints too. I can see you didn't read this thread that carefully, but I know it's a long one.

I did read the posts carefully, there is a lot of 'suggestion' regarding NHSTA complaints. I also checked the NHSTA site for 1998 and 1999 Mercedes Benz E class complaints and found no complaints regarding spring perch problems. If this problem has been referred to NHTSA, that is great. If NHTSA is investigating a year old problem, then I am very concerned that Benz1gal is having trouble from her MB dealer just over a week ago.

Old design carried forward
 

I had this happen to my 87-201.128 in 2003. I went to an independent shop for the repair and we scabbed one off a salvage yard car.

Good repair, costly decision.

For what ever reason about a week after the repair, I had to visit the MB dealer for a part, I stopped into the body shop and there were spring perches setting on the shop foreman's desk. I asked if they were from a 201, he laughed, no a 210. He told me mercedes was very quietly repairing any spring perch failure on any year. period. They would have done my 87 with 260K miles no questions no cost. Yes he did elude to the legal ramifications as well as the bad rap that would ensue.

I ask which was most common the 201's, he laughed again, no the 210's cause it was the same part as the 210/124/201. He also said that unlike the years of development and billions of dollars that went into every thing up to and including the 201,202, 124,126,129,140, the 210 was a rush to production and wasn't engineered with the quality of the afore mentioned.

Bottom line, the MB dealers that are approved body and paint centers will do this job under warrantee. Press the local rep if you don't get satisfaction.
-Mark

I saw many complaints for 96 and 97 cars, I didn't check the later years. Their database is not so well organized because they have overlapping categories, like E-class, 300E, E300, plus there are overlapping subcategories for the front suspension. NHTSA hasn't started investigating this problem last time I checked and I don't know if they ever will.

markg612, are you saying all those other chassis have the same spring perches as the W210's? If so, why aren't we seeing problems with them?

Because the spring perch isn't defective. The failure is caused by improper sealing.

1996 E320 spring perch has failed
 

FYI - The left (driver side) spring perch failed on my car on 12/23/05. It happened under 50 MPH and there was no damage that I can see other than the failure itself. I was close to home and at the time I didn't know what happened, pulling the wheel off revealed the problem. Thank God my wife or daughter wasn't driving on the interstate at speed when it happened. My local M-B dealer said the repair should cost ~$1000 and the car will be down for about two weeks. Armed with the information from the MBCA and this site I will be contacting MB USA and asking for their help. I would also like to have the other perch inspected/repaired for fear of it happening again. I will provide updates as to my progress, etc.

This is what the MB body shop manager said too. My 201.128 car lived an ignominious salt infested life in Minnesota and North Dakota. He said they would see the perch failures from time to time in much older vehicles that lived a hard life in the salt infested streets of Minneapolis and were poorly maintained.

I personally think every aspect of the 201,124, 129 140, 202 life cycle was classic old MB driven by one thing, perfection. I believe there were a lot of areas of neglect in manufacturing the 210 as the 210 was the first market driven Mercedes, and it was under-engineered IMHO and rushed to market. Thank Jurgen "heir putz" for that, and the 203, 211, 163, etc.

The spring perches are held on by 4 spot welds. Provided they are not corroded those four welds should hold the spring perch for the life of the car. The problem is MB cheaped out on rustproofing, their is evidence of this all over the W210.

Update: Spring perch failure
 

After several un-answered emails to MBHQ, I gave them a call. The person on the telephone was courteous but basically said it's up to the dealer to interface with them. I spoke with my dealer (I did not purchase the vehicle new, or from them) and they said it's up to the dealer who originally sold the car. Since I don't have a lifetime to get the car repaired or play the 'who's responsible' game, I contacted my local body/collision shop through my insurance company to have them fix it. They are doing it for half the cost, the work is guaranteed, and my rental car and towing is covered.

I will be writing to MBHQ to express my displeasure, and to the NHTSA to document the failure of the component.

I purchased a 1985 190E 2.3 new, and I still have it with over 325,000 miles on the clock. In my opinion, the E320 isn't half the car the 190E has been for me. That's a darn shame too because the E320 is a beautiful car, comfortable and nice to drive. The E320 will be replaced soon.

I remember when M-B owned up to some problems with the 190E and repaired them all, regardless of vehicle age or mileage. This was to ensure customer safety, satisfaction, and loyalty. It appears that those notions no longer exist in the M-B of today. They would rather cater to the affluent who keep their cars for two years and move on. It's no wonder that they have not been in the top ten for customer satisfaction, or why the Mercedes-Benz Club of America dedicated a whole issue on an interview with a M-B exec on vehicle quality and customer satisfaction problems.

In that same issue of The Star they mentioned a special representative to handle problems for MBCA members when they couldn't get satisfaction through the dealer. You might want to check that out.

K3MBZ, I'm surprised your insurance company is willing to pay for your expense. Is it being covered by your comprehensive coverage?

I agree with you about the quality of the W210. Quite a disappointment.

Insurance for perch repair
 

My comprehensive is covering it, they are also covering towing and my rental car (all within their limits for such things, and after my deductible). I'll still be out of pocket more than I wanted to be, but they are taking the sting out of it.

This past spring I had body work done to both front doors right at the rub strip, directly below the mirrors. The rust was bubbling up at an alarming rate.

Once I get the E320 back I plan on replacing it, and it might not be a Mercedes. I feel like I've been betrayed by a good friend...

M-B special rep through MBCA
 

Thanks for reminding me, I'll have to dig that article out again.

Hopefully M-B can get their act together and improve quality and relations back to where it used to be.

HDenDiesel and any other person who has received info regarding “Campaign 01-0799”:

Please state the name of the Dealer and/or "Service Manager" that furnished the information "“Campaign 01-0799."

That can of worms looks a bit too juicy--like a LEXUS. ;)

w210 body rust
 

My 1998 E320 has rust on the body in many areas. Some are close to rusting thru. I put Zinc Chromate on them as soon as I find them. It seems to be mostly starting from panel edges or where the metal has been significanly formed in the manufacturing process. As a comparison, I have a 1995 Suburban with 140,000 miles and no rust and a 1988 Riviera with 265,000 miles and also with no rust. All have been driven under the same conditions in Wisconsin. As you might guess I had the spring perch fail. This is the worst car for rust that I have ever owned.

Who fixed it? I saw a 210 at Zimbrick European getting fixed for that same thing recently.

is 00 E430 4-matic part of this problematic spring perch issue as well ?
if so kindly advice what I can tell the local mechanic to do in order to prevent any mishaps.
thnx.

Never seen a modern type 4Matic break, they have reinforcement bars on top. I've mentioned this before, it sure looks like they could be retrofitted. If I had a 210 I would look at getting these added, but rust is the real enemy here. Or is it Mercedes:wacko:
Gilly

thnx for the quick reply gilly,
so i take it that one doesnt have to worry about the issue when it comes to 00 or newer w210's ?

Well, not a 4Matic anyways, not that I've ever heard anyways, it is a reinforced perch.
Gilly

Exactly. Try talking to the owner of a first generation Lexus LS with the navigation system. Lexus has no updates for the first generation Nav systems at all and when you move off a road that "does not exist" to the nav system it gets completely lost and is totally unusuable until the car is restarted in a location the car recognizes. Many of these cars are rather late model and Lexus has turned their back on their owners.

Also try talking to the owner of one of the owners of a Lexus SC coupe who's center backlighting has burned out and has been quoted $1000+ from the dealer to go in and change a lightbulb.

I think its a shocking sign of the times from the automotive industry. With all of the great cars made over the years I have no interest in buying a cheaply made plastic piece of S*** from anyone.

Hard to compare a nav system that isn't supported to a front wheel that isn't supported...I think you have to draw a distinction between defects that are safety related like the spring perch and convenience items. I just bought a BMW 740iL which was a wonderful car in its day (1997) but the pixels in every one of the digital displays are failing. I don't equate this to the front wheel breaking free from its body support. Irritating yes, but not life threatening like this W210 design flaw.

True. The problems are more serious. I was not really making a comparison between problems. If given problems to pick from I would rather a nav system that did not work as I would never use it to begin with. Every car make has problems in one way or another.

While a design flaw you can at least get it repaired. Many of the Japanese makers stop the supply of parts as soon as they legally can. Something a lot of people don't really understand is the metrics that the automotive industry uses to determine if there is really a problem or if there was just a bad day at the factory or a bad supplier. When you have the number of cars on the road that MB does it takes a bit more lead time to get things going than most consumers realize in order to organize a recall. Getting a car company to recognize and admit a flaw in our litigation obsessed world is difficult.

America is the only place in the world where stupidity is a socially acceptable disorder. Not knowing about a design flaw and then crying fowl after an accident is not much of an excuse as its the consumers responsibility to research a vehicle before buying it. Driving a car knowing about the problem and doing nothing is even worse.

Speaking of research. I am sure you know all about the V8 engine block issues with your 740 and the cooling system issues that have plagued the 7 for decades?

:)

Yeah, that was the earlier 4.0L, mine has the improved 4.4L.

were the 4.4L engines put in the 740IL's ? or was the car rebadged ? what year was the improved engine put in from ? I was looking into the 740IL myself but then stopped when I found out such stories related to engine and heating issues.
thnx.