W210 Diesel owners: Spring Perch Failure - Please read
 

:MODERATOR EDIT ADDING DATA LINK:
W210 DANGEROUS FLAW please read (crosslinked in post #1 to all on topic data)
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/bodywork-repair-paint-tools-tips-tricks/147997-w210-dangerous-flaw-please-read-crosslinked-post-1-all-topic-data.html
:MODERATOR EDIT ADDING DATA LINK:



Through some research I have found that this is primarily effecting E300 and E420 owners due to the increased weight on the front end.

Unbelievable... What the hell is going on at MB these days?

From your pictures it would appear that there are only two spot welds holding the spring perch to the body?!?!?!@!?#! Was there any other attachment mechanism to hold the perch?

MB had better fix this one (and fix the other side as well) for free -they should also find out exactly why this happened and recall all the effected cars. If that perch is being totally held by two spot welds I'd get an attorney involved as well - I'm not big on lawsuits and I'm not a structural engineer but I'd say that Mercedes need to be sued.

If you had been driving when the perch broke the spring could have fallend into the steering linkage and you could have lost control of the car. I would not expect this kind of failure on a Yugo after two decades of service, on an 8 year old Mercedes-Benz its just unforgivable.

Thanks for the pictures and words of warning, I have a 2 month old and would dread the thought of this kind of a failure at highway speeds.

Can you give a detailed description of what a spring perch is so others can inspect. It sounds as though it's the Lower "A" Arm, where the front coil spring is seated? A schematic drawing would be great. Are these parts manufactured out of stamped thick sheet metal and spot welded together to form a part?

Thanks again,

The lower control arm has a spring perch. However, what has failed on his car and in this pictue is where the top of the spring goes!! Its supposed to be welded to the chassis. In his picture, the part is not present. Very scary!!

Note there the other thread about these cars where they are rusting out in the U.K.

Makes my 124, BMW's, and Chevrolet's look better every day.

Regards,

I agree this is totally unacceptible.........................MB better fix it free or you need to find an attorney

W210 E320. 1996. Exactly the same happened. Say no more! Had to order a new one from MB (didn't cost a lot, fortunately) and weld it back on. Reinforced with a thick metal sheet. Mind that the original part was only spot-welded on 2 or 3 spots. Unbelievable.

MB will be fixing it free of charge - which to me, is an admission of quilt. Needless to say, I had to fight like made to get them to do it.

I am in the process of writing to the MB headquarters in NJ and to the NHTSA.

I am really shaken on this one, guys. I know I have posted here before about going to a Lexus product. This experience may have been the straw that broke the camel's back. The thought of getting an E320 4-matic wagon for my growing family is now out of the question.

Hi Slowmoe,

It is quite shocking to see this happened on a relatively new MB. It is obvious that MB is no longer run by engineers, or at least the "old school" engineers.

Nope the"Bean Counters" are running the show and like every where else they ruin everything they touch. Because quality and engineering are alien concepts to them.

"I am in the process of writing to the MB headquarters in NJ and to the NHTSA."

What address or e-mail do you use in contacting MB headquarters,
I have a E320/97 and do not want to wait for this to happen to me on the freeway.

Thanks,
Vahe

:eek: Whats up with the W210's lately? One of my friends is looking for a W210 diesel, I think I'll tell him about these threads, he might be better off with the diesel Dodge truck he wanted.

Well, it seems some of you are lucky your failures happened while barely moving. I was in Munich on Friday on my way home on a business trip, and visiting an old highschool buddy. While we were driving out to Tegernsee, a little Alpine lake on the southeastern side of Munich, we entered the local Autobahn behind a W210 Diesel Wagon. I did not see the details of the designators as after a few hours there my neck was sore from snapping around to read the designators on the thousands of MB's tooling all over the place. Anyway, as the guy floored it to accelerate the front lifted a bit, and then when he went to shift it dropped, with the driver's side dropping to the ground and the coil spring and some other parts spewing out from under his car. We scooped up the spring and drove it over to the guy and handed it back. He was in shock. I noticed you have all had this problem on the passenger side of the car while this incident involved the driver's side. Looks like a serious enough problem I will be having my car inspected shortly.

When you see recalls for interior junk and other items that are not life threatening, and then you see something like this, it seems the NHTSA and MB have their heads in a dark, dank, foul smelling place. This guy in Munich was lucky as he was still only going a good 30 mph or so when it happened to him. At 100 mph, which we were doing shortly thereafter in my buddy's MB Diesel van from his business, an accident like that might have been fatal for the driver and occupants of that car, as well as a few others in the vicinity. I hope MB comes clean on this issue. Jim

If that happend to my car I'd sue MB.

Well, guys...

This unfortunately was the perverbial straw that broke the camels's back for me. Here is the rest of the story...

I waited for more than two weeks to get the car back from the dealership. The goods news is that they repaired both sides free of charge. The bad news is that the front of the car sat about an inch lower than the rear, there was shaking and rattleing everytime I went over a bump, and the front end felt loose. It was as if nobody bothered to take the car for a test drive after the repair.

The experience with the poor quality of this car (problems with: AC, electronic injection, SRS lights, rusted catalytic converter, bucking at highway speeds, ball joints and control arm bushings at 90K etc...) combined with the drastically inferior customer service I regularly received from both area dealerships, caused to finally sell it.

The really unfortunate news (for Mercedes) is that I replaced it with a Lexus GS300 - which I absolutely love. In addition, I will definately NOT be getting my wife the 2002 4-matic wagon that we had planned on this fall.

This is not to say that I am finished with Mercedes. I would love to have a third car as a back-up. I am currently looking for a well cared for 300TD Wagon.

Moe

I had a GS300 as a company car for a couple of years - it was an impressive ride. I think you made a good decision here - I'm very disappointed in Mercedes-Benz's response to this situation. I hope the NHTSA makes them bring every W210 car sold in America for repairs - this kind of failure is inexcusable in ANY car.

Good luck in your 300TD search - If I see any good examples I'll drop you a note.

Tim

In the cars section their was a pretty nice 300TD listed, I hope MB realizes all of the customer's their loseing with this crap.

Bump. That's it for me, I've lost all interest in the W210 chassis now... time to go hug my 124...

:rolleyes:

I am pretty much coming to the same conclusion. Lexus is starting to sound pretty good. They don't rust, dump their front suspension, crack their dashes, have expensive sealed for life trans, eat computers, break window regulators. MB what have you become? :(

Nothing is ideal. Lexus also has their share of problems. It depends on how they address them....

Your right their are horrer stories about every make or model ever made.

Jeez Hatty, you've got one of the good models. I've gotta say, Lexus will break window regulators, otherwise I agree. Also, they haven't been around the 25 years needed to find out about the front suspensions. They are, however, great cars. I prefer my Benz, but I'm not at all sure that's logic talking.

Has anyone correlated the perch problem with cars exposed to winter roads or damp conditions?

My car is located in Central Fl, always garaged ( ie no AM dew) never been in winter road conditions. I checked the perches in detail (with a friends ultrasound and mine are fine with no gross stress cracks (that could cause failure) with 105k miles on the car.

Also, I have absolutely no evidence of body rust.

Is it possible that the 210 has less or inadequate rust prevention on the metal than previous models? I noticed some 210's have a lot of rust dots on the painted metal areas around the front heaadlightsl.

This model could not be any worst than a Diesel Peugeot 504 I owned in the 70's. bought it new in White. In two years the rocker panels and wheel wells turned Orange. This was my poor mans MB Diesel. Great rider and dependable, but could not handle winter road treatments.

Allegedly, MB quit dipping the entire body into a galvanic tank, or however they would apply the corriosion prevention on the older cars. I think the W124 might have been the last chassis to get that treatment. The W210 is showing what happens when it's NOT treated properly. Shouldn't be as much of a problem in dry climates though.

As to 'horror stories', there really aren't any on the 124, except maybe the 87 head cracks and the 92-95 wiring harnesses. (?)

:o

I'm wondering if the W210 rust problems are related to the environmentally friendly paint process. On the W124 and W201 that I owned, paint chips and scratches almost never went down to the metal. But on the 210 the paint seems to be quite brittle and almost every chip goes right to the metal, which then starts surface rusting right away. I think if people see rust around the headlights on a W210, it's probably because of all the rock chips that happen there. This body style is particularly vulnerable to that.

I wonder if it'd be worth it to MIG the spring perch as a preventative measure?

Well yeah the SDL is a great car and the W126 in any form is great. But mine is eating a $100 part every week and then some, old cars are great to play with and drive on the weekend. But fixing them all the time gets old.

I don't want to own a 25 year old Lexus. I want one that is 5 years old, and drive it for another 5-7 years before dumping it.

Sure seems like a smart idea to me, even if you're not in the rust belt...

:book2:

Since MB "acquired" Chrysler (and their 1 billion dollar debt) they seem to be fighting hoof nail and claw to bring the honoured Benz backwards into a "more affordable car", and the first cut is to quality. I wouldn't be putting any money into a Chrysler with a star on it.
Pre-1990 Benz's are another matter all together :P

Identical Front Spring Perch Mount Failure Scenario
 

Same thing happened to me in my 1996 E300D with my wife and child onboard. Thank God the failure wasn't at highway speed! MBUSA and my dealer denied EVER hearing about this! Just filed a complaint with the NHTS, and I encourage everyone else who has experienced this failure to do so too!

To reiterate my other post on this...
 

CBS TV in NYC is planning on doing a story about the MB W210 Spring Perch Failures and MB's foot dragging on doing a recall for what is without a doubt a safety related issue. PLEASE, if you have experienced FIRST HAND a failure or near failure (MB replaced parts) of the Spring Perch on any W210 car contact Richard Bamberger at CBS, his email is: rbamberger@cbs.com

Richard is particularly interested in hearing from those owners who live in the NY/NJ/CT area and who can be used in the story directly. It's important to all of us that MB aknowledge this problem exists and step up to take responsibility for getting it fixed on every car that might fail. This is not just an inconvenience if it fails, it can mean loss of control and injury or death!

Thanks in advance for all those who take the time to tell Richard their story.

I don't know. My MB shop Service Advisor said they only have seen one case in many many years. Maybe I will have to talk to the techs and see if he is lying or not.

I have read at least a dozen posts on the shopforum from people claiming to have suffered failure or having needed repairs discovered by inspection prior to failure of spring perches in the 210 bodies. It would seem that based upon the relatively small number of 210 owners that follow these boards that, statisitically, there must be thousands of cases in the field. It seems the diesel and heavier E4XX models are more likely to suffer from a problem. I'm sure the vibration of the diesel doesn't help any so it could compound it by causing a fatigue problem on top of a corrosion problem.

My dealer who is clueless on just about everything and even if not clueless seems to deny anything ever goes wrong with these cars frequently even acknowledged knowing about the issue. That was enough to send a chill down my spine and have the car inspected even though mine is a car which spent most of its life in the south. My inspection appointment is next Wednesday...I'll post the results after it is done.

I just found it unconscienable that MB won't just accept that there is a problem and fix it, they are still in the "denial" stage - haven't made it to acceptance yet.

what years are affected with this? I know a couple people who have cars about that vintage - I would want to warn them but not alarm them unnecessarily. Surely they have strengthened this in the cars selling today, no?

The W210 body started in 1996 if I am not mistaken and although it underwent some minor mods I believe it was in production virtually unchanged for 6-7 years? I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong about the years. It is basically the E class body which is probably the majority of all of the cars they sold in those years.

thanks!

Gee I didn't know this problem was so widespread. As I stated in another thread I just bought a 96 E300D and it's being shipped to me. I probably would have bought it anyway even if I had read this thread first, but now I'll be much more wary. One of the first things I'll do when I get the car is inspect those perches and maybe even remove that insulation that allegedly hides the rust. Can there be rust under the insulation even if the insulation appears to be in perfect shape? The seller told me there's no visible rust in the "strut area", so I'm hopeful it'll be fine.

The W210 was made from 1996-02 or 03.

The early W210's with the bigger engines seem to be the most prone to this problem.

Also Gilly has said the AWD cars have a stronger spring perch. So far 4 Matics do not seem to suffer this problem. I have also never heard of a later 2000+ model dropping a perch. 96-97 models seem to be the worst.

Don't forget that time is its enemy...the reason the early ones are failing recently is because they had seen 5, 6, 7 and 8+ years worth of corrosion. The '96 and '97 cars didn't fail in 2000, they started failing a couple of years ago. It may be too soon to know if the problem continues until the 2000+ models get a year or two older. I have seen numerous recent posts from owners of '98 and '99 cars with failures.

Yep good point.

MB probably will not do anything until someone dies. :mad:

YES! It is my understanding that the rust is generally not visible unless the protective layer is removed. MB apparently has their inspection procedure for this as my dealer seems to know what to do...we shall see. If your car came from an area with lots of snow and salt it is more probable to develop problems, but even some southern cars have reportedly failed.

I still love my '98 and won't give it up even if this is a problem, I'll just have it fixed one way or another. It's just a shame to have to deal with such an issue on a relatively young car. I've owned many MBs, older than 7 years and never had a structural failure in any of them.

spring perch
 

here in california we have never seen this issue, is it related to the areas back east only? is there anyone in my area who has seen this issue?

For those that are trying to determine if their w210 has this problem, what have ya'll done?

Contact local dealer, MB or take it to your local indy and fix it out of pocket?

Anyone recomend an indy in the central Connecticut area?

I wanna install my E55 springs but will not do anything till I get this taken care of and am sure that my perches are safe..

I have yet to see this insulation, but my logic tells me if the insulation is not cracked and there are no gaps for water to get through, there shouldn't be any rust underneath. I agree with you that it's a shame that we have to worry about major safety issues like this, but like you I'm determined to do whatever is necessary to take care of this problem, as the W210's surely are beautiful cars.

My dealer was familiar enough to know there is an inspection procedure for it and I have made an appointment for next week to get it done. The service advisor's words were "MB will not pay for the inspection because this is not a recall item" to which I quipped "yet" and he smiled. I will pay for the half-hour tech time to perform the inspection for peace-of-mind. I figure if they are willing to say it is fine then they accept a lot of liability so it had better be fine. I suspect if there is any sign of rust on the parts they will play it safe and recommend repairs, which they say MB is paying for on a "case by case" basis.

Hi

The bit that really annoys me is that the last time my car was at the dealers for an alignment check they said it was suject to a recall and preceeded to wax the top of the doors that had been replaced due to rust 6 months beforehand. No mention was made of spring perch failure or waxing in that area which could be potentially lethal.
I dont think a rusty door top would be classed as lethal, MB are more concerned with future rust claims on their doors than our safety.

McCool300TD

I own a '98 E300DT since sept. 2004.
I bought the car from my cousin with 85,000 km on it and I currently have 99,000km. When I bought the car, I was aware of this spring perch issue and I remember my cousin told me some work was done in the past by the dealer about it. I was looking at some papers today about this issue and this is what I found. (I'm translating from french, dealer is in Province of Quebec, Canada)

Car was delivered on january 16, 1998.
On may 3, 2002, I can see on the "working sheet" that the car was at the dealer for an oil change and also to "verify Recall campaign No. 01-0799 about the front spring perch". It says on the invoice "dismantle and replace both spring perch support, left and right."

Parts:
Qty 2 #210 626 01 19 Appui (Perch) (warranty)
Qty 1 #001 989 63 20 Materiel etanche (Could some kind of sealer or asphalt undercoating applied against corrosion) (warranty)

Hours: 5.97 (warranty)

Today, I inspected both spring perch and everything is OK. I'm planning to go at the dealer next week to get some explanations about what was really done on the car at this moment. It make no sense to me the original perch were took off the car and replaced (welded) by the new ones?

Hope these info may help,
HDen

No one has yet to have a number of how many failures vs cars sold. The problem is that we are looking at one side of the thing. IIRC, things like this are driven by numbers. This is a simplification of what I read but here goes.

10000 cars sold.
Cost to fix 10000 cars is say 10 mil
Of that say 500 cars will fail
50 will result in seruious injury
Of the 50, 5 will sue
Cost of the suits is 3 mil
Therefore we don't fix it.

Just like Ford had for the ignition switch or the TFI module.

Could the recall HDenDiesel mentioned be a provincial thing? Maybe it failed in one region because of some condition and they are not doing it all over. I checked at the dealership and they have no recall in WI. Checked all the WI dealerships and they don't report a recall. Maybe we have to go to Canada, get an oil change and ask for the recall?

Talked to Gilly. In his time at Zimbrick, he saw 2 maybe 3 problems of that nature with the 210 Chasis

NHTSA search reveals complaints filed
 

I spent some time this morning searching the NHTSA website. It is not easy to search for complaints on the W210 spring perch issue, but it is possible.

The reason it is hard is because they break the complaints up into models and classes, so you have to search under E class and 300,320 and 420 models to see all of the complaints. Also the complaint categories can be confusing, and I didn't have time to search them all, but if you got to the NHTSA site and search under 1997 E class complaints, then go to suspension:front:springs:coils springs you will see 6 complaints filed of failures taking place from May of 2000 through March of 2005. There are also complaints under "front suspension" category. Same for 1996 and 1998. Clearly the problem exists. If NHTSA has 6 complaints on file for one year's model that should be a red-flag.