My Intercooler set up on my 300SD
 

I mentioned doing this when i first bought my 300sd. finally this morning i started the project. and its now done. Ill post some pics as wells as a list of parts.

That was a quick install! I wish my intercooler would go in that quickly. Did you use a air/air IC or a air/water unit? How much did it decrease your EGTs? Any plans to adjust the full load of the IP? Any idea of the pressure drop across the core? :dizzy2:

i used a air to air unit. its the old one off of my Eclipse. to tell you the truth i cant tell a difference except for a little more turbo lag i dont have anything to monitor the engine with so i cant say much more then what i feel in the seat.

if you have a stp by step that would be awesome. I have an intercooler, but no idea where to start. how hard was it to disconnect the turbo and intake? did you use the stock intake? how did you get it all hooked up? I'm all ears and have a ton of questions :D

the turbo and intake arent bolted together. all you really have to do is (simplified explaintion) you loosen the bolts on the compressor housing, then turn it so it faces the passenger side of the car, then using silicone couplers and 2 inch pipe you route from the turbo to the intercooler, then back out into the intake using a silicone coupler on the intake as well.

did you have to move the intake at all to make the turning of the turbo possable?

no, what you do is loosen all four bolts on the exaust manifold so you can pull the turbo far enough out that it clears the intake flange.

Where did you mount the intercooler? There doesn't seem to be a great spot to mount a air/air unit and get a good airflow over it, hence why I went with a air/water unit.

How did you modify the intake manifold? I just sen't mine to the welder yesterday to have a 2.5 inch hose barb attached.

You probably don't notice any gains because you are not burning any more fuel. You must turn up the full load (an internal adjustment in the injection pump) to gain power. Before you adjust full load I recommend installing a pyrometer.

See my pyrometer how to here: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/167588-pyrometer-thermocouple-installation-pictorial.html?highlight=pyrometer+pictorial

Full Load adjustment here: http://schumanautomotive.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1205

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3...cooled0003.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3...cooled0002.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3...cooled0007.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3...cooled0004.jpg

Does the car actually perform any different? Looks to me like an intercooler in a place where no airflow will really get to it, and one of those K&N "I want to destroy my engine" cone filters. If you didn't adjust the fuel quantity or install an EGT gauge there will likely only be a decrease in performance. I vote for the stock setup.

the intercooler will still do its job. just less effecently. its still cooling the charge. if it were a front mount then it would take even longer. so since this one has less piping it will spool sooner then a FMIC and make up for its placment

No, no it won't. The whole point of an intercooler is to allow more fuel to be burned while keeping IAT (intake air temperature) in check which has two benefits: Cooler air is denser and reducing EGT (exhaust gas temperature) from the extra fuel. The amount of turbo lag is inconsequential.

The placement of the intercooler is poor but obviously was choosen as it is the easiest. There is little or no airflow through the intercooler core in that location so the intercooler will heat soak in a very short time and then will provide no benefit at all. If you truely want that location to work then consider installing an electric fan to move air across the core.

If you don't believe me then go get an IAT gauge, Autometer makes one, and do a little pre and post intercooler testing for yourself.

Now let me congratulate you on doing a decent job on the installation. Its nice to see someone thinking outside the box from stock. I say go back to the project, improve the installation, quantify the gains/benefits, and then let us know.

RT

put a fan on it. I know its going to blow hot air thought the intercooler... but it is better then no airflow. the intercooler is cooling the air, some what, but with out airflow there is nothing to carry the heat away from the intercooler.

i was thinking of doing something similar but with a fan. i want even better air flow, but i haven't come up with anything yet. I don't want to delete my fog light because some day i'll get some euro lights, and under the car is not an option. but if i come up with something i'll post it.


pawoSD, I have one of those "K&N "I want to destroy my engine" cone filters" I've put about 80,000 miles on the car running that style filter, i clean it and change it as needed. no problems thus far.

310,000 miles on the car... almost to my 500,000 Km award!

Another reason to install a intercooler is to lower the temps in the engine- which will increase the engines life span. I know I know- these engines already run forever... but if you can do it- why not? It's better than sitting on the couch eating chips. You will need to move some air over the IC somehow- but I'd gues s as is it will provide lower temps in a small percentage.

I bet you'll see some performance gains in the summer time when it's really hot out. You'll need to get some airflow across that intercooler. Good Job!

It will provide some benefit but whether the temperature drop across the intercooler will more than make up for the boost drop across it is still an open question. Also any time you can pack more air into the cylinder you will extract more power from the same amount of fuel burned. (proof can be found here and yes the same principle applies to a diesel http://courses.washington.edu/me341/oct22v2.htm ) I did some calculations once, an intercooler alone would get you 2 or 3 HP. True, you can get 10 to 30 HP more power out by burning more fuel but that doesn't mean that there is no gain by adding an intercooler alone.

I must state turbo lag does affect off the line performance. This is because boost helps build boost. Also boost turns up the fuel via the ALDA which also builds boost further. Whether the loss in off the line performance in trade for more power once boost has been built is inconsequential is a matter of opinion.

The fan idea might help but it too would be far from ideal being behind the radiator. If I was doing it I would weld a water jacket around it and turn it into an Air/Water intercooler (ala Brandon314159 ).

I will agree with you and say he did do a nice job though.

Edit: If you want to keep turbo lag down you need to keep the volume of the piping on the cold side of the intercooler down. It takes more cold air to pressurize a given volume than it does with hot air.

I'm wondering if all that hot air from the intercooler is now going to get sucked right into the K&N filter. hmmmm

If I had a second hood, I'd experiment it a hood scoop or two -or maybe a scoop and whatever you call a scoop rotated 180° for suction/exhaust. - Something to get the air moving through the cooler, and for cool air to get to the intake.

Looks nicer than I expected :)

I did buy a second hood, but i'm trying to figure out how to get air to go throught the hood (hood scoop, louvers, some kind for grill) without destroying the look of the car... i mean it is a mercedes.

in a dream world i would have the skills to cut in a vent in the fender like on a 190D 2.5T

my dream for venting my intercooler. (photoshop)

Looks good. That is where I am mounting my air/water IC. I have just the fan you need for that too...it came with the honda goldwing radiator that I am using for my intercooler set up, however since my intercooler radiator is front mounted I have no use for the fan. You can have the fan for the cost of shipping. PM me if you are interested.

That will work well for the intercooler exhaust as it's in a negative pressure area. Where are you going to put the intercooler inlet?

remember this is all in the design phase... but I was thinking about taking some 4 inch pips and making a long scoop that would mount in the bumper, not to low because I don't want to hit it, but if I do it would only be pipe I made and not an intercooler.

I’d attach a section of flexible vent tubing (like used in old 'ram air' systems) and put that into a shroud on the bottom/engine side of the intercooler.

Remember this is a dream world I’m living in. I think it would all work great and look nice, but I’m still in college... That means no fundage.

It will be interesting to see how much of a power/performance gain there actually is, I do admit you did a nice job on the installation, looks very nice!

As for that cone filter (yes, I am opposed to them) the problem with them is that they do not filter out the fine silicates in the air, which is actually space dust (not kidding), have an oil analysis done using a stock setup and then with a cone filter, and you'll see that it does indeed make the silicon particle count jump, another member here checked on this and found it to be true, I just don't remember who it was. Silicon wears away the cylinder walls and rings in the engine. Long term effects would be lessened life span of engine.

Learn something new everyday. :book: maybe by lowering my intake gas temps with the intercooler it will increase my engines life span by as much as the space dust is decreasing the life span. :silly:

thanks for the replys guys, if you didnt notice i cut out the sheet metal below the intercooler, and i was already planning a hood vent. im a body man so im comfortable with the task.

Post pics once you get the body work done! :yes:

btw this car is listed in the mall still.

I think the whole goal behind intercooling is to lower the fuel/air temp so it is more dense. You may have to have the injection pump adjusted to feed more fuel during boost and getting cool air on it via a scoop/duct system will let the IC do it's job.

But without exhaust gas temperature and boost gauges you have no way of tuning your engine to take advantage of the intercooler. With the gauges you can note current EGT and boost pressure after a spirited drive. Remember that with the intercooler online the EGT may already be somewhat lowered. Now get the intercooler in a stream of cool air and start increasing boost pressure until you reach the non intercooled EGT. Obviously you know that increasing boost increases power and reduces economy. Maybe do a search for EGT gauge and you can get some good temps. as reference from people who have already done this.

i have a Manual boost controller and a am installing a boost gauge soon. but its been said that on a diesel, cranking up the boost is unless without more fuel too. any idea how true this is? wouldnt being intercooled give me some leave way for a couple pounds of boost? the EGT should be lower so more boost shouldnt cause preignition or ping? Im somewhat new to diesels so i dont know much about it. but have built some fast high boost gas power cars.

Diesels don't ping because they don't compress fuel/air mixtures in the cylinder. They run excess air, so you WILL NOT get more power from just turning up the boost. Completely different from a gasser -- I have one of those too.

I know that if the fuel charge is cooler you can crank up the boost whether it is gas or diesel. Forum member GSXR may have some insight into intercooling diesels. I think the injection pump has to be messed with to really extract more power out of the engine but no matter what you do, there is a max EGT that you shouldn't go higher than. So it becomes a balance between intercooler efficiency, increased fuel volume and increased boost until you reach the max. EGT. I think when Porsche went to an intercooler they were also able to run higher compression as well as higher boost and more fuel. I don't know about raising compression on intercooled turbo diesel engines.

There is also a Dutch company that makes intercoolers for MB turbodiesels but I don't think they go back to the OM617 engine. But the fundamentals would still be the same.

that all makes sence. any pictures of your p car? :)

It is a sad story but it is outside now and looks fairly bad. I saw that you too have Porsches. My engine is apart and needs a rebuild but the pistons and liners are in great shape. Of course I would go for the timeserts and the raceware studs. I would also like Webers because I know that putting mechanical injection would just be too problematic and expensive. I have my hands full with my 120 year old house and I still have to put a head on a 1987 300TD wagon that I picked up this summer. I want to do the Porsche right and strip the paint, replace rusty panels, powder coat all the suspension parts etc. If I ever get it done it will be a sunny day summer car only.

It all comes down to time and money and unfortunately I don't have enough of either for all my hobbies and family activities. By the way fixing the house and the cars are a couple of my hobbies.:D

I remember the Dole Pineapple Fieros when they were racing IMSA GTA. They were all four cylinder injected engines. I think Pontiac was supporting the cars also. But as is typical for GM, as soon as they get it right, they stop making it.

As with all of my cars. i see it as a hobby. if they dont get finished its fine. its still something to look forward to and do in my freetime.

I would also choose the webers. Mine has a new set of PMO carbs up top. and arent must more then a pretty version of webers.

Thanks for the kind word regarding my midengine passion. Many people would rather post a reply about the rumors they heard about the car.

most dont know, or dont belive that the car infact then and even today holds the highest non airbag equipt safety rating. see here: http://www.crashtest.com/explanations/archive/crash.htm

and they think they all had fire issues. when infact that was related to 1984's and they recalled and repaired the problem by adding heat sheilds to the catalitic converter and removed the front deck lid weather strip.

but by then it was too late and the word was spread. and like anything else the rumors started to brew.

every once in a while i get asked, or told something about my car and i cant help but to roll my eyes. btw. ive owned 13 fieros and every single one is still on the road.

thanks again for the kind words.

It is amazing that in politics people forget withing a few years but with cars it is forever. I think diesels are still shunned here due to GM adventure into diesel conversions in the 70's and 80's. My cousin had a couple of Fieros and they both ran like champs with very few problems.

Turning up the boost increases the amount of excess air. The more excess air you have the higher the specific heat ratio of the combustion gases. The higher the specific heat ratio the more power you extract from the cycle because it behaves more like an ideal gas. In other words you get more power out from the same amount of fuel burned.

Turning up the boost also reduces combustion chamber temperatures. With the lower combustion chamber temperatures less heat is lost to the cooling system hence more energy is retained in the gases that do the work. Additional efficiency results from this hence you get more power out as well.

These two effects have diminishing returns as the boost increases. So you will reach a point at which it takes more energy to create the additional boost than you get back from the efficiency increase. According to the fins, no gains are seen after 14.5 psi of boost with the stock turbo as its efficiency drops off. If you want to run higher than 14.5 psi of boost you'll want a better turbo.

So turning up the boost or adding an intercooler alone gets you more power up to a point.

Uh oh

Ergh? W123 only gets 2 and 1? WTF?

Why doesn't anyone use an open paper filter?

Plenty to choose from at McParts. Newer Vipers have them, Trailblazer SS, Ford trucks, etc. They're just friction fit.

becuase they dont come with cool stickers, and arent as pretty ;)

Ah, the truth comes out. :D

paper filter? do tell me more. I'm not set on my cone filter... but i like hearing the turbo... thats the real reason its on the car.

What do you want to know? They are a round, conical paper filter. :confused:

If you want three more HP, then follow this advice and you might get that three- then again maybe not.

not saying its just you, its not. there are several others.
but it seems that many members of this forum really try to discorage others from enguaging in any kind of project that may possibly make the car a better performer.
Now its been made clear that these engines are very durable, its been made clear that that almost all diesel powerplants are making some seroius power with modifications.
Now why are other people, many MB owners themselfs saying its a bad idea to do something untraditional with a luxury car?
Imo if it has potental use it, or waste it. Im a motivated person who much like the engineers who devoloped these cars. beleaves, that if it can be better, make it better.

Or maybe im the only one that is willing to sacrafice some unneeded reliablity for enough fun factor to make you actully want to drive the car for its life? These cars are well known to go 500K now if i had to give up as much as half that to make it enjoyable for that period then im fine with it.

You can up the performance all you want, it's just not cost effective.

Hypothetical scenerio:
You pay $5000 for a very nice 1983 300D.
120HP stock.

Boost and Pyrometer gauges: $250
Intercooler and associated parts: $400 average.
Water injection: $200
Turbo back exhaust $200
Rework the intake manifold: $75
Custom air filter $50
Boost controller: $20
Total: $1,740
Total (real) power: about 128HP (4 of that from the methanol in the water injection)
A stock 87 300D or 87 190D will still walk all over you.

You want to up the fuel rate?
Upgraded turbo compressor wheel: $80
Tools and new gasket to adjust the IP: $50
Total: $130
Total power: roughly 190HP at the flywheel (MAX).
So far: $1,870

Want more HP than that?
M-type euro injection pump: $250
Myna custom pump plungers and tuning: $2500 after American-Euro currency conversion
Mandatory turbo upgrade: $500 (average)
Custom manifold and oil lines to mount the turbo: $250
Power: 200-350HP
Total: $3,500
Total to get an extra 80-230HP: $5,370
Overall: $10,370
Now, drag race a bone stock 560SEL (That would cost about $6,000) and it will leave you crying in the dust.
--------------

Now, you ask, "Why do you do it?"
Because I love to do it. :D So what if a 560 will beat me, it's my passion.

I was commenting on the adding of a intercooler or upping the boost WITHOUT adding more fuel only. I am all for adding HP and doing what you'd like to the car- it's your car after all. Connclark has a history of saying you can add HP by increasing boost- and it is perhaps true in gasser theory- to the tune of about 1.5%- or three HP, max. I was saying dont bother upping the boost or adding a intercooler without adding fuel if you are expecting a real HP gain- which means you have to adjust the IP. See post # 47's butt-o-meter findings...lol

Looks like I will stick to 10psi for now.

I made a simple valve to bypass the boost controller from inside the cab. Using my built-in Butt-O-Meter™, I cannot tell any difference when I switch from 10 to 14.5psi or vice versa during a WOT acceleration. No smoke at 10psi without the ALDA and I still average 13.8sec 0-60 when I'm easy on the clutch.

Just thought I'd pass along my findings.

Do you know what kind of fuel economy from both settings ??

Good job! I would use your existing cold air plumbing that was next to the headlight and radiator and route the air over the intercooler. Also, I do not know how long the small filter for venting the crankcase will last before it gets kind of clogged and begins to push oil past the rings. I would come up with something more ventilating. Just seems like better insurance for your motor.

I don't think there is much danger in pushing oil past the rings. I bet that filter will eventually become soaked with oil from the blow by gasses and drip.

Try a search on ebay for oil separator... I got one for an airplane for around $20.