W123/OM617 modification questions (Intercooler/Myna/VNT/Lighting & cosmetics/Etc.)
 

W123/OM617 modification questions (Intercooler/Myna/VNT/Lighting & cosmetics/Etc.)
Hey guys!
Just happened across this site and I think the knowledge base here is just great. So I hope I can find some answers here.

I'm new to the MB game but old to the (bio)diesel game. Had my MB for about four months. 1983 300D with 150k on the clock. Had a bad head, just replaced it. Also worked on a Ford F150 that I swapped a OM617 engine into (was my bosses project, not proud of it honestly). So I'm no stranger to the inner and outer workings of the engine.

So to begin with, MOAR POWAR?! I would like to see what kind of REALISTIC power I can get out of my 617. I've seen 140-150 claims from various sources, is that possible? And how reliable can it be made?

What I've done so far:
-Cold air intake w/K&N 'style' filter / Stock crankcase breather delete (mini cone filter - NOT WORKING WELL)
-ALDA turned up all the way
-Homemade boost controller set @ 14PSI
-A/C vent mounted boost gauge

NOW on to the mods:

INTERCOOLER: Obviously - turbocharged, so next step is to intercool, right? What are some of your experiences intercooling a 617? What kind of HP gains can be made by this swap?

MYNA DIESEL: I've read bits and pieces about those Finnish modded pumps unlocking the potential of these Mercedes diesel engines.. but really, what is the hype? What is so special about what they do to these pumps half a world away?

VARIABLE GEOMETRY TURBO: I've seen a few posts about these VNTs and VGTs mounted onto the 617, but sifting through the "how cool" and "I want!" posts made me dizzy, what is the verdict with this new(er) technology added to these classic automobiles? What - if any - HP was gained? Or was it all shaving ET's?

LIGHTING: I'm interesting in hearing about lighting modifications from other members, mainly HID / projector / LED upgrades. I'm looking to modernize my 300D slightly - as far as cosmetics go.

My big lighting question is: are there any aftermarket replacements for those darn fog lights?

I have a pretty good plan for the main headlights: I'm going to try buying some of those plastic H4 housings littered across eBay - hollow them out and mount Bosch Bi-Xenon projectors in them - just a little something not to blind oncoming traffic. :D

OTHER STUFF:
-Has anyone fabbed up an oil catch can for factory air cleaner deletes? Pictures?
-AAZ injectors? Can't remember where I read about them, but I was interested. Info?
-Does a 5 speed manual transmission mate up to the 617?
-What is a typical rear end ratio for this vehicle and are there replacements/alternatives? The high RPM's at higher speeds seem ridiculous and also seems like you could get better MPG's with a smaller number.

For instance: My El Camino puts out (maybe) 120HP, naturally aspirated. 4 spd auto w/0.70 OD and a 2.41 rear end. I got upwards of 30MPG and still had some bite off the line!
-More to come . . .

MY GOAL(S):

(1)To end up with a decently fast and powerful little diesel. I'm not expecting Skyline or Lancer performance, just enough to toast a Honda or two..

(2)I also want to keep it green, biodiesel/WVO/SVO/Whatever is a must for me and has been from the beginning. So on to the next item of my goal...

(3)Mileage. I know it contradicts section 1 of my amendment, but there is a happy balance between over gearing and lots of bottom end torque. Over-gearing is one thing, but are not these beasts severely under-geared?

Anyone else have any other performance upgrades that I didn't bring up? Throw them my way!

That's about it! Let me know what you guys think.

140-ish with the original injection pump. Myna's pumps are good for 500+HP assuming you have the needed changes to support that much power/fuel.

Get rid of that, its actually a HOT air intake. The factory air filter setup is already true cold air intake.

Thats not good. It should be turned up until you see black smoke out the tailpipe when accelerating from a dead stop. The Garrett T3 and KKK K26 don't supply enough air soon enough to have it all the way up or removed.

Anything more than 12psi is a waste of energy until you have turned up the maximum fuel.

Thats a great place for it, I had it there as well in my wagon.

It is the first step to safely modifying the engine for more power. Unfortunately it provides 0hp on its own. All it does is cool the air which allows more fuel to be safely injected for longer periods of time.

Whats so special is the work that only they do. Custom ground pump cam, custom 7mm plungers, precise tuning to match their pump modifications and external controls to easily change the fuel limit. Nobody else in the world does what they do or has the experience to back up their work.

No turbo lag, modern compressor aerodynamics, better turbine efficiency and better boost control. Power comes much sooner, meaning lots of torque down low and a flat horsepower curve from 2200rpm-4500rpm.

HID retrofit lighting is terrible and dangerous because it blinds oncoming drivers.

European headlights.

Junk.

Vent it to the atmosphere (Road draft tube). Catching a few drops of oil is not worth the hassle.

2-stage injectors. They smooth out the combustion, make less combustion noise, reduce emissions and gives about 5hp in the top end power.

There is but its extremely rare and very expensive to acquire in working condition. Example: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250255789345

3.07 is stock for yours, 2.88 is a bolt-in swap from 85 models. A 2.47 can be modified to fit but there is no speedometer that will accurately work with it in a W123.

Synthetic oil, advance the injection timing 2-3*, get the cam back to timing spec, etc.

No power from just the intercooler, but it will decreace your exhaust temps to allow you to turn up the fuel for more power.


They take a Euro "M" pump, add 7 mm (I think) elements to flow more fuel, and external adjustment to allow easy tuning while the pump is on the car. The US turbo cars have the "MW" pump which has not had as much work done on tweaking it.

Again, no more power over stock with out more fuel, but a VGT will give much faster spool times and increase effiency which lowers EGTs allowing room to turn up the fuel.

The best upgrade for lighting is to get a set of Euro headlights. They replace the US sealed beams with H4 bulbs. They provide better light and look better (IMO) than the US lights with the plastic surrounds. There are two types, the round type which look similar to the US headlight, but with an all glass front (and better light production), and the square type, which give the car a more modern look.


Many people have used a 240D or aftermarket external oil seperator. No need for a catch can, there is a drain for an oil seperator in the upper oil pan from the factory.

ForcedInduction and a few others have used them. They are a two stage design that give a small "piolet" injection for more efficient and quiet opperation.

Yes, but they are extremly hard to find

240D: 3.69
300D (non-turbo):3.46
300D (turbo): 3.07
300D ('85 only): 2.88

You can also find a 2.46 from a gasser. I would not go any lower than 3.07 with a manual.


Edit: looks like Lance beat me to the punch. :D

Hey! It's Turbo617, I remember you from YouTube. Bashing my biodiesel ways. Hah! Small world :rolleyes:


140 is good enough for me, so what are the steps to achieve that sort of power?


No, actually it is a COLD air intake. Or at least I plan to make it one. Routing air from the fender well into a filter enclosure. Or from the stock ram air port.

I turned my ALDA until I saw smoke -- but never saw any. All I see sometimes is a "haze" at night at stop lights with headlights behind me. But it will never smoke when I decide to tune it. :rolleyes:

12 is it? Good to know, I'll dial it back tonight.

Hah! Good to see I wasn't the only one with the idea. :cool:

That's just about what I figured. Still a good step, any input on that subject?

Amazing, and what do one of these "magic" pumps cost with a core?

Sounds good, how hard is it to bolt one on?

I wasn't planning to just buy a simple "HID RETROFIT KIT" off fleaBay, I was going to custom fabricate Bosch projectors from a BMW, AUDI, etc. in a set of 7" plastic "diamond cut" housings. Modern optics, not something designed for a blue tinted halogen bulb..

I had a draft tube for a while , was not pleased with the amount of oil lost (and ending up on the underside of my car!!) I mounted a mini cone filter on the valvecover "nipple" and within a few days my valve cover and the cone filter are soaked in oil. That's atleast an ounce of oil a week, if not two? Not signifigant by any stretch but it is still engine oil being lost.

I saw a few catchcan designs on a Ricer forum I might addapt. Picts to come I suppose.

How does one go about fi nding these gems?

Yikes. But I thought the five-speed was just a four speed with an overdrive bolt-on? Maybe I'm getting mixed up here.

While we're at it with the subject of transmissions: What are the gear ratios for the four speed automatic and manual and the five speed manual?

What does the 2.47 come out of? Can the speedo be transplanted? And isn't it just a matter of speedo gears? I could always (if I really wanted to) get some speedo gears CNC'd from nylon/ABS/aluminum.. Just an idea!

Cam back to timing spec? I'll give the injection advance a try.

Yeah I think he's suggesting replacing the timing chain. They regularly stretch enough over time to allow the cam to be 4 or more degrees out of perfect timing with the crank...

HERE is the guide. Your mileage may vary. Some have seen a big increase in power but others (myself included) have seen no power gain at all with the fuel rack limiter removed.

Even still, the vast majority of cone filters people put on these engines are about 1/2 the size they should be for unrestricted airflow. Attach a manometer (vacuum) gauge just after the air filter and go for a ride, I bet you'd be surprised how restrictive it actually is.

That is kind of normal with these old diesels when they get lots-o-miles.

More boost does not = more power on these mechanical engines unless the fuel is increased to match it. Until then it would be working harder (exhaust backpressure) to compress the air more than it needs.

Air-air is more work but it gives cooler and more consistent air temperatures.
Air-water is much more compact but it does not cool it as well and its much heavier.

About $2800 at the current exchange rate (The Euro €).

Lots of time and work. Really, its different for each model of turbo. I probably have over 100hours into research and work on my VNT setup. It was over 1.5 years before someone else installed one similar to mine.

My engine loses less than 1/4qt oil every 350 miles to leaks and consumption even with a road draft tube.

They were used on 96-98 VW Golf/Passat with the 1.9L AAZ (not TDI) engine in Canada only. They are rare and finding somebody that can properly set both pop stages is even harder (I had to settle with tuning 1 pop stage) but I got a set of 7 used injectors for $120 total and made back $50 selling the extra 2. The #265 nozzles from the 1987 300D/SDL are used in place of the #308 nozzles that come inside them.

Nope. Completely different guts and the later common 5-speeds have the starter wart on the wrong side.

You asked for a mouthful in that question! Here goes...

------------------------------------------------------------------
123-SERIES GEARBOX RATIOS & FINAL DRIVE RATIOS

opt = optional
std = standard
gear ratios in order 1-2-3-4(-5)
R = reverse gear

GEARBOXES
(Note the code letters were created for this document -
they are not official Daimler-Benz codes)

4sp manual
A 3.90-2.30-1.41-1.00 R3.66
B 3.91-2.32-1.42-1.00 R3.78
C 4.23-2.36-1.49-1.00 R4.10
D 3.91-2.17-1.37-1.00 R3.78
E 3.98-2.29-1.45-1.00 R3.74

5sp manual
F 3.82-2.20-1.40-1.00-0.81 R3.71

4sp auto
G 3.98-2.39-1.46-1.00 R5.47
H 3.90-2.30-1.41-1.00 R3.66
J 4.25-2.41-1.49-1.00 R5.67
K 3.68-2.41-1.44-1.00 R5.14

FINAL DRIVES
3.92 3.69 3.58 3.54 3.46 3.07 2.88


W123 saloons

(1) 200D 1976-Sep80, std 4sp manual A 3.92
(2) 200D Oct80-Aug83, std 4sp manual B 3.92
(3) 200D Sep83 on, std 4sp manual C 3.92
(4) 200D Feb82 on, opt 5sp manual F 3.92
(5) 200D to Jun83, opt 4sp auto G 3.92
(6) 200D Jul83 on, opt 4sp auto H 3.92

(7) 220D std 4sp manual A 3.92
(8) 220D opt 4sp auto B 3.92

(9) 240D to Sep80, std 4sp manual A 3.69
(10) 240D Oct80-Aug83, std 4sp manual B 3.69
(11) 240D Sep83 on, std 4sp manual C 3.69

(12) 300D std 4sp manual A 3.46
(13) 300D opt 5sp manual F 3.46
(14) 300D to Jun83, opt 4sp auto G 3.46
(15) 300D Jul83 on, opt 4sp auto J 3.46

(16) 300D T to Sep84, std 4sp auto K 3.07
(17) 300D T Oct84 on, std 4sp auto K 2.88

(18) 200 to Jul80, std 4sp manual, as A 3.92
(19) 200 to Jul80, opt 4sp auto, as G 3.92

(20) 200 Aug80-Aug83, std 4sp manual as B 3.69
(21) 200 Aug80 on, std 4sp manual D 3.69
(22) 200 Oct81 on, opt 5sp manual F 3.69
(23) 200 Aug80-May83, opt 4sp auto G 3.69
(24) 200 Jun83 on, opt 4sp auto J 3.69

(25) 230 std 4sp manual A 3.69
(26) 230 opt 4sp auto G 3.69

(27) 230E to Aug83, std 4sp manual B 3.58
(28) 230E Sep83 on, std 4sp manual D 3.58
(29) 230E Oct81 on, opt 5sp manual F 3.58
(30) 230E to Apr83, opt 4sp auto G 3.58
(31) 230E May83 on, opt 4sp auto J 3.58

(32) 250 to Apr77, std 4sp manual A 3.69
(33) 250 May77-Sep81, std 4sp manual E 3.69
(34) 250 Oct81 on, std 4sp manual E 3.58
(35) 250 Oct81 on, opt 5sp manual F 3.58
(36) 250 to Sep81, opt 4sp auto G 3.69
(37) 250 Oct81 on, opt 4sp auto K 3.58

(38) 280 to Apr77, std 4sp manual A 3.54
(39) 280 May77-Oct77, std 4sp manual E 3.54
(40) 280 Nov77 on, std 4sp manual E 3.58
(41) 280 to Oct77, opt 4sp auto G 3.54
(42) 280 Nov77 on, opt 4sp auto G 3.58

(43) 280E to Apr77, std 4sp manual A 3.54
(44) 280E May77 to Oct77, std 4sp manual E 3.54
(45) 280E Nov77 on, std 4sp manual E 3.58
(46) 280E Oct81 on, opt 5sp manual F 3.58
(47) 280E to Oct77, opt 4sp auto G 3.54
(48) 280E Nov77-Sep81, opt 4sp auto G 3.58
(49) 280E Oct81 on, opt 4sp auto K 3.58

S123 estates/station wagons

(50) 240TD to Sep80, std 4sp manual as A 3.69
(51) 240TD Oct80-Aug83, std 4sp manual B 3.69
(52) 240TD Sep83 on, std 4sp manual C 3.69
(53) 240TD Feb82 on, opt 5sp manual F 3.69
(54) 240TD to Jun83, opt 4sp auto G 3.69
(55) 240TD Jul83 on, opt 4sp auto J 3.69

(56) 300TD std 4sp manual A 3.46
(57) 300TD opt 5sp manual F 3.46
(58) 300TD to Jun83, opt 4sp auto G 3.46
(59) 300TD Jul83 on, opt 4sp auto J 3.46

(60) 300TD T to Aug81, std 4sp auto G 3.07
(61) 300TD T Sep81 on, std 4sp auto J 3.07

(62) 200T Aug80-Aug83, std 4sp manual B 3.69
(63) 200T Aug80 on, std 4sp manual D 3.69
(64) 200T Oct81 on, opt 5sp manual F 3.69
(65) 200T Aug80-May83, opt 4sp auto G 3.69
(66) 200T Jun83 on, opt 4sp auto J 3.69

(67) 230T std 4sp manual A 3.69
(68) 230T opt 4sp auto G 3.69

(69) 230TE to Aug83, std 4sp manual B 3.58
(70) 230TE Sep83 on, std 4sp manual D 3.58
(71) 230TE Oct81 on, opt 5sp manual F 3.58
(72) 230TE to Apr83, opt 4sp auto G 3.58
(73) 230TE May83 on, opt 4sp auto J 3.58

(74) 250T to Sep81, std 4sp manual E 3.69
(75) 250T Oct81 on, std 4sp manual E 3.58
(76) 250T Oct81 on, opt 5sp manual F 3.58
(77) 250T to Sep81, opt 4sp auto G 3.69
(78) 250T Oct81 on, opt 4sp auto K 3.58

(79) 280TE std 4sp manual E 3.58
(80) 280TE Oct81 on, opt 5sp manual F 3.58
(81) 280TE to Sep81, opt 4sp auto G 3.58
(82) 280TE Oct81 on, opt 4sp auto K 3.58

C123 coupes

(83) 230C std 4sp manual E 3.69
(84) 230C opt 4sp auto G 3.69

(85) 230CE to Aug83, std 4sp manual B 3.58
(86) 230CE Sep83 on, std 4sp manual D 3.58
(87) 230CE Oct81 on, opt 5sp manual F 3.58
(88) 230CE to Apr83, opt 4sp auto G 3.58
(89) 230CE May83 on, opt 4sp auto J 3.58

(91) 280C to Oct77, std 4sp manual E 3.54
(92) 280C Nov77 on, std 4sp manual E 3.58
(93) 280C to Oct77, opt 4sp auto G 3.54
(94) 280C Nov77 on, opt 4sp auto G 3.58

(96) 280CE to Oct77, std 4sp manual E 3.54
(97) 280CE Nov77 on, std 4sp manual E 3.58
(98) 280CE Oct81 on, opt 5sp manual F 3.58
(99) 280CE to Oct77, opt 4sp auto G 3.54
(100) 280CE Nov77-Sep81, opt 4sp auto G 3.58
(101) 280CE Oct81 on, opt 4sp auto K 3.58

(102) 300CD std 4sp auto G 3.46

(103) 300CD T to Sep84, std 4sp auto K 3.07
(104) 300CD T Oct84 on, std 4sp auto K 2.88
Compiled from DaimlerChrysler specifications by Andrew Noakes 2003
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Any W126 with a V8 (380, 420, 500, 560 SE/SEL)

If only it were that easy. The W126 speedo is a completely different shape and driven by electrical impulse pickup rather than cable. The tailhousing can be swapped on the automatic to install the tone wheel and pickup but fitting the speedo would be difficult.

Using an offset woodruff key to change its timing back inline with the crankshaft.
http://img.eautopartscatalog.com/live/A419021382OES.JPG

Holy. . . :eek:

But among all those statistics I think I eyeballed something alarming; am I getting this correct here? The fourth speed on a 4-speed auto is NOT overdrive? But rather just... drive? :confused:
What a waste! Every other vehicle I've ever seen with a four speed auto had 3rd as a drive gear and fourth as OD. They had to have a reason for this, I assume?

And again, this is assuming here, does this mean that the only overdrive solution for this vehicle is the five speed stick?

One other thing; I don't have my "bible" right in front of me but I can clearly remember something about the inner workings of the four and five speed manuals being identical except for the addon overdrive gear. Eh?

Haynes manual, somewhere in the manual transmission section. Don't quote me on that until I find the book!

I should have mentioned this before (and am amending it to my original post)

My goal(s) here:

(1)To end up with a decently fast and powerful little diesel. I'm not expecting Skyline or Lancer performance, just enough to toast a Honda or two.. :rolleyes:

(2)I also want to keep it green, biodiesel/WVO/SVO/Whatever is a must for me and has been from the beginning. So on to the next item of my goal...

(3)Mileage. I know it contradicts section 1 of my amendment, but there is a happy balance between over gearing and lots of bottom end torque. Over-gearing is one thing, but are not these beasts severely under-geared?

It's hard NOT to "squeak" tires from first to second gear, even with a light foot! The looks I get from cops are great.. :D

Zooooossssshh.... *PERT* ...zoooosh..

Wait, is that it? What about the bell housing pattern? Flexplate/flywheel? Ect, ect?

I have a guy who is a god when it comes to aluminum welding. I could have him just delete the bump (or alternatively leave it) and fab a new one on the other side. Or am I still missing something?

Biodiesel is by far the best way to do it, WVO/SVO are just abusive to the engine.

That means its shifting too firmly and stressing the driveline. Great way to break a flex disc on the driveshaft.

Debatable:

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-performance-tuning/223678-c-air-water-intercooler.html

My air/water seems to give lower EGTs than your air/air. ;)

The hardest part is finding or making an adaptor plate to bolt the turbo up. The push/pull vacuum/ pressure control system I used on mine seems to work much better and be much simpler than the systems of valves and switches that had been tried in the past. My setup took a few months of work, but much of that was waiting for the adaptor plate to be fabricated. Member dieselkid can make you an adaptor for the GT2056V from a jeep liberty for about $80.

Overdrive has been used heavily by marketing departments, it means only that the output shaft of the transmission is turning faster than the input shaft and really nothing about performance or economy.

So, if you have a .85:1 overdrive transmission on 4.11:1 gears, and 155/60-13 tires, you're turning much higher RPMs than a 1:1 transmission with 2.65:1 gears and 195/65-15 tires (87 300Dt).

Really means nothing without the whole package, what are the revs/mile is what matters, I'm turning around 3000rpm at 80mph, with no overdrive.

The "waste" in my opinion is the lack of lockup TC in the automatics.

Don't worry so much about the overdrive if you're going to re-ratio the rear screw anyway.

I say air-water does not cool as well because the water is always slightly above the ambient air temperature and heats up as it progresses through the core vs air-air that has a limitless supply of cool airflow over the entire surface.

I know the difference is small but its still there.

I agree, the actual installation of the turbo is more difficult than building a control system for the vanes. The vacuum/pressure control system works nearly perfect for me.

Another option thats been tried is the mechanical linkage although it looses some of the VNT's low RPM boost benefits in normal driving.
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...a/IMAG0081.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...a/IMAG0076.jpg

Did you ever hear how that linkage arrangement worked out?

The pressure/vacuum actuator works quite well and it elligantly simple. Yours has the added benifit of fully opening or closing the vanes on command via valves but with a slightly more complex plumbing system. I have had excelent results with only the vacuum signal from the transmision and the boost signal from the turbo. Cruise at 65 is about 5-6 psi of boost, with around 8 psi of exhaust pressure. When I stomp on it the boost jumps up to 13-14 almost instantly.