Notes from the lab

[panZZer]

This will be my custom parts-etc thread, I'll try not to do stuff that has already been done before. The part Im working on first is a custom Turbodiesel 617 intake manifold.
Probably the best intake to start with is the one off the first version of the 50's thru 80's iron diesels, the first om621 intake off the 58-9 Pontoon 190d part# R6211411301, They have the best runners -they start as the same om617 D shape but open into round 1 3/8"tubes about 3"from the ports and is the intake that looks like the first 4" are siamesed.
The later 621 Pontoon intake # 6211411401 and the 220d 240d intakes all have D shaped runners all the way thru the intake and are a lot harder to run a flex stem and a flapper wheel thru to enlarge. Also the 220d 615 616 runners enter the head at around an 75 degree angle instead of almost a straight shot like the Pontoon intakes. This intake will be a add the 5th runner and weld to a plenum but theres gonna be casting for the 5th runner. It will fit under a w123 hood or on other repowering swaps. As of right now I dont know an easy method of making a core for the runner but fortunately have years and yrs of plastics tool experience and a lot of it crosses over, Im stopping by the foundry to talk to the owner tommorrow to get the answer.

[Gillig]

Originally Posted by panZZer

Probably the best intake to start with is the one off the first version of the 50's thru 80's iron diesels, the first om621 intake off the 58-9 Pontoon 190d part# R6211411301

What advantage is there to any of this when the W115 manifold is commonly available, requires no fabrication, doesn't have the multiple sharp 90* angles and has the runner length / plenum volume already tuned for the 617?

[panZZer]

Well they are not that common, --but surely more than a 58-9 pontoon, There are multiple wrong angles on the w115-- not so much on this and wait til its done before you assume things. most of the ports on the w115 enter at an ok angle but the #1,2 th runner is a disaster for airflow #5 enters the head at a worse angle than the rest, and are a choked size to begin with. I like to make things so no fabbing required is not a big plan for me, And knowing how to weld aluminum is a plus if you are a motorhead. Remember--The w115 617 intake is NOT a 617A and it wasnt made to do that, but has been used that way. The 617 and 617a are not gassers and the plenum volume is not tuned like a gasser as you may be thinking--and if it was a turbodiesel would probaly not be the same as a N/a engine. There is no air door (throlttle body) everthing on a turbodiesel of whatever kind from the compressor housing thru whatever-a intercooler and various ducting is plenum.

[panZZer]

The pattern making part of this stuff is tedious and if you dont like that kind of work casting metal is not for you.I have always been interested in metal casting. If it weren't for the oil/natural gas industry that was based in places like Houston and DFW these places would probably not still be operating here. After a 20 min tour of one of the two major foundries in DFW and absorbing every bit of info I could get one of the owners was starting to maybe think I could pull off some simple stuff. Some of the major supplies they are using are the same I've been using al along. But I will also be using stuff they havent seen done too. The first time I came here there was a WWll rolls royce merlin 12 cyl head sitting on the floor.
Im making a quickie reverse image off a pair of runners and am using some mexican air drying clay -This stuff shrinks up too much for my liking but im just getting a general shape for a runner and it'll work for that. It wouldnt be any easier to make a single so im making a pair instead. Thats the way it is with pattern work -its often little more work to do a Big part that it is to do a small tedious one.

The runners on the pontoon intake are 1 3/8 inside di round tubes and down at the port area the round shapes are pinched off to the D shape like the later 621 the 615 616 and the w115 has thruout the length of the runners.------- if the cut off D port shape side area were still round it would come out to just under 1 3/8 but with the extra material filled in reduce the size quite a good bit.

[Gillig]

Originally Posted by panZZer

Remember--The w115 617 intake is NOT a 617A and it wasnt made to do that

That is false information. Please look up the C111-IId and III and you will see why. I trust MB's engineers know far more than somebody in their garage with a saw and welder.

Recognize that manifold? MB felt it was good enough to make a continuous 230hp.


You are vastly over-thinking the intake and you'll see no measurable benefits from all your work that an additional 1psi of boost, an intercooler or water injection wouldn't outdo.

[panZZer]

Yea thats special , like I said it was made for the Na 617 and so it was used on a turbod racecar, If you are happy with one on your car great. Your tone sounds familarly snarky-What concern of yours is what car parts I make--Might you be known elsewhere by a different name?
I meant if you are happy with one on your -Oel Smokin Jalopy -----did they let you back in here -or are you hacked in anonymously?
Gotta luvv those proxy 's. which one did you use--Foxyproxy? No --You used turbohide!
That was not the only type intake ran on the car by the way -There was another.

[Gillig]

Originally Posted by panZZer

Yea thats special

Not really. The specs are available. The only significant modifications they made were to the pump, lowering compression (on the 230hp version), an alloy cylinder head for weight reduction, a different turbo and adding an intercooler.

What concern of yours is what car parts I make

I don't care what you make. My concern is that you're posing as if know what you're talking about when you are merely guessing based on visual observation of 40 year old pre-CAD parts.

Gotta luvv those proxy 's. which one did you use--Foxyproxy? No --You used turbohide!

Why should I need a proxy? This forum is public and free to everyone that follows the rules. And on that note, I'm reminded of a rule you've broken in that last post.
"2. Trolling is not permitted. Trolling is defined as an inflammatory post used strictly for the purpose of irritating other members. The moderator of the respective forum will have the final determination of whether trolling was utilized for a specific post. "

[panZZer]

I figured you were lurking here under a new name-- and as soon as you pulled the c111 pics out and start in with the oratory I new for sure, Yes it's a public forum but it seems you would be going by the old name-but thats not the case.

[Gillig]

You need to pull your head out of the clouds. The lack of oxygen is making you delirious.

[panZZer]

Originally Posted by Gillig

You need to pull your head out of the clouds. The lack of oxygen is making you delirious.

Yea thats a common saying in Denver. Anyway You kept bombing my ebay ads selling one of the funky intakes saying its only worth $40 dollars etc like you controll the market--telling me I needed to take economics in College because the intake wouldn't sell for $169, 179----I had the price jacked up so no one would buy it -because the ad wasn't about that, but the right customer came along and bought it anyway. Right at that time you won one for $60+ and sold it -where they let you run , for --Mabe 10 bucks profit after shipping.
Shrewd

Anyway Im not trying to sell an intake Here so--About what I talked to you about being sportsmanly, If you cant do that then please don reply to this thread anymore.

[Gillig]

Originally Posted by panZZer

You kept bombing my ebay ads

Sorry, I haven't used fleaBay since they mandated PayPal as the only payment. Even the word "money order" is censored from the auction text. So on top of the listing fee and sale % fee they get a cut of your PayPal money too. No thanks, craigslist has been working great for me since. Anyways, who do you think I am again?

[panZZer]

You are the guy who bought a bunch of gaudy hot pink shrink tubing to go with the blue/purple silicone ducting on your manilla beige 300 -last friday------- Ala diesel-benz on feebay. And your "opinion" is intended to be a nusiance here-nothing more. You seem to have a double personality. sometimes you are alright-- but if someone else trys something with a benz turbodiesel , especially forigners like guys from Finnland-you get the-- -Who do you think you are--attitude.

now-NO more hijacking my thread.

[winmutt]

Coming from the guy who likes to impersonate webmasters on other sites those are quite a few words there panZZZer.

[panZZer]

No you got me all wrong--its panZZer-with 2 Z's like that little ole band. I was just listening to cheap sunglasses on the way back from Honest Johns caddy graveyard--You just gotta love how Billy plays the guitar in that one --the definition of Excellence.

Im Not trying to get my thread shut down-seems some other might be---He's got a LOT of experience arranging that---- and he needs to stop because his posts are unwanted.

Ah -if you are the wingman, Do you concur about this guys ID? Whom would be the others underling elsewhere? That seems to be unclear with guys from Germany, Finnland, New Zealand ..... from what I saw on 4btswaps, or was it diesel bombers--And thats meant as a constructive comment.

[panZZer]

The Mexican clay tric didn't get the first step done, it kept shrinking up and had to be redone, But I did get the parting flange that I can go off the other side with more stable stuff, then redo the first side. Plaster of Paris and some binder material like the straw in bricks, Horse hair maybe.