Hi all, I'm new here. I live in MD and I'm in the planning stages of building an electric car. I'd really like to get an early 90's 190E with a manual transmission for my chassis. But after searching for several months it seems like that is a really tall order. Looks like the only ones I've seen are 16V's and I would HATE to tear one of those beauties apart. So what I'm looking for is a car that fits ALL of the following requirements:

1) MB sedan that weighs less than 3000 lbs
2) Manual trans
3) Body and interior in good shape
4) Engine can be bad or missing
5) Less than $3000.00
6) MD/DC/VA area or able to tow it to me

I was hoping that since this is an enthusiasts list maybe someone would have what I'm looking for stashed away in their yard just looking for a good home.

Thanks
Rick Stewart

Save yourself a lot of time and grief, and money, if you just buy one of the billions of Volvo 240's floating around. Solid cars, not heavy as they look I don't think. Good luck either way

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1982 VW Caddy diesel 406K 1.9L AAZ
1994 E320 195K

Thanks for your advice Wolf. I researched the Volvo 240 over the last couple of days. I've never been a Volvo fan, but it might be a decent platform for an EV. Are the chassis fairly rattle and squeak free? From what I've read, it seems that the 240 has a soft ride quality? Is this true? I need a car whose suspension can handle several hundred pounds worth of batteries. It's true that removing the engine will remove several hundred pounds, but the rear of the car should be able to handle the extra weight as well as that's where 2/3 of the batteries will live. Is there a 240 model with a stiffer suspension that I should look for?

Thanks for your help.

-Rick

Overload springs are easy to come by, sedan had same suspension in the rear as the wagon, the wagon stock could carry a bit more. There are a lot of people that stiffen up the suspension for performance, I don't think you'll have a problem there. Stiff sway bars are readily available as well, and help immensely.
Check out IPD for pricy but nice parts, and turbobricks.com for much good info.
The 190 is a nicer car, but I think for what you are going for the 240 may be easier overall.

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1982 VW Caddy diesel 406K 1.9L AAZ
1994 E320 195K

You might be able to get away with converting an AT car if your EV driving style doesn't require a clutch mechanism.

Do you know of any MB adapter plate templates? It will be a significant additional cost if you have to prototype the adapter.

Sixto
87 300D

What about a 240D? You can pick one up with a blown engine and stick for damn near nothing.

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1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Hattie - He said "lightweight" =)


Dude, I don't think that any benz is gonna be "lightweight" enough for you. The build quality is there, but they price you pay is weight.

The lightest benz I can think of is the W201 190-series of the late 80's early 90's. linky to specs Its not common to find those with a stick shift, but other than that, you are looking at 3400lb and up cars if it has to have a 3 pointed star on it.

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Husband, Father, sometimes friend =)

Whats an extra few hundred pounts? Thats with the engine installed BTW, which would be removed.


Where did 3k pounds come from and how critical is it?

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2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
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2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Thanks for all the replies. Today is my three year old's birthday and I don't have much time to sit at the computer. But I'll try to get back and answer all the questions later this evening.

-Rick

Wolf-
I'll check into that. I think the 240 Volvo sedan weighs somewhere around 2900 lbs. But why do you think the 240 Volvo would be easier than the Mercedes?

Sixto-
I don't know the rules here yet on posting links to other sites, but I'm getting my electric conversion parts from a company in New Hampshire called EV-America. They charge somewhere around $700 for the adapter plate, spacers, and motor coupling. It's a clutchless design that seems to be really solid and reliable. They keep a huge inventory of CAD files of all the conversions they've done. If they haven't done your car before, you can send them your transmission and they will custom design the parts for your application at the normal price. They consider it good business because it will give them the ability to provide those parts for any future customer that needs them.

Hatterasguy-
Actually a 240D would be a pretty neat platform for an EV. They weigh somewhere upwards of 3400 lbs, don't they? I saw a couple on E-bay that look really nice. I found a local shop that specializes in old Benz's. He has nearly 30 of them of all kinds in his lot so I'll go talk to him this week and see what I can come up with.
EV-America sent me literature that helps to construct the basics of my EV project. They say that it requires 6-8HP per 1000lbs of vehicle weight to accelerate an electric car. Also the higher the top speed the higher the HP ratings need to be. At 6-8hp per 1000lbs in a 3000 lb car, I would need 24hp ( and more for highway speeds) which would be at least 144volts or 12 batteries and 780lbs. The more voltage you use, the more HP you get. So the heavier the car is, the more voltage I need and the more batteries are required, which makes the car even heavier. I have a Geo Metro that I WAS going to use for the project because of it's 1,600 lb. GVW. But after spending $6-8,000 on the conversion I'd still just have a Geo. That's why I'm looking for a Mercedes or something of similar quality instead so I can enjoy the experience of driving. Why not strive for the best, right?

Angel-
Yeah, that's pretty much what I had figured. A 190E would be the perfect car for me. Even if I can't find one with a manual transmission, I could always use a Toyota truck tranny or something else. The trick is going to be to make the interior shifter assembly look classy or well made, short of finding an MB unit.

I *think* a 240D is about 3,200 pounds. But your are going to remove the engine. Thats probably 400-500 pounds right their.

I wouldn't rule out a W123. A lot of the heavy stuff under the hood you are not going to need and will be able to remove.

What about an older BMW 3 series? You can pick one with a stick up cheap, they have to be pretty light.

Also since it sounds like your going to add about 700 pounds in batteries a W123 may be a good choice. They are built well enough to be able to carry the extra weight. Plus you can get some custom rear springs made up pretty cheap to prevent the rear from sagging under the extra weight.

Not to mention that when you are done you will have a nicer car than the Geo as you said.

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2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Availibility, I don't doubt you can find a 5spd with or without a bad motor for $500 or so. Watch craigslist for your area. 190e 5spd would be more ideal I'm sure, but for the money and cost/availibility, seems like the volvo'd be worth checking out. Let us know what you end up up with.

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1982 VW Caddy diesel 406K 1.9L AAZ
1994 E320 195K

I'm not aware of link restrictions for unrelated or competing vendors. The moderators try to keep a G or PG rating.

I don't think a 5-speed is a particular benefit. The EV blogs I've read suggest most driving is done in second or third, from standing start to freeway.

Are you going to electrify the power steering or go with a manual box? I don't think any 123 or 201 was sold by MBUSA without power steering but manual boxes should be a dime a dozen in Europe.

How about a 90s Passat? It splits the weight of 201 and 123 with cabin space more like a 123. 3- and 5-series BMWs with MTs are everywhere. Or a Saab 900.

Sixto
87 300D

Sixto-
I need to find a manual because an automatic won't really work very efficiently with an electric motor as the power plant. With an EV, the motor is at zero rpms when the vehicle is stopped. You would have to spin the motor up to whatever the stall speed of the converter is just to get it to move. I'm not a transmission technician, but I'm not sure an automatic would work without an ICE turning at least at idle all the time, right? Isn't there an idle circuit for fluid inside an auto tranny? Most modern automatic transmissions are computer controlled as well. With an EV, there is no more ECU so nothing would control it. With an auto, I would have to keep the radiator since the tranny cooler is in the radiator. Not to mention an automatic transmission can weigh up to 250 lbs compared to a manual at under 100lbs.

Plus, there is a roughly 30-35% parasitic power loss through an automatic whereas the manual only loses 15% or so. The EV is all about efficiency so I'm going with a manual. Even if I leave it in 3rd gear all the time, it still has less parasitic loss than an automatic so it's more efficient.

If you know of a way to get an auto to work in an EV I'm all ears. I saw one guy who had an electric Geo Metro with an automatic. But he was an engineer and I have no idea how he did it.

I plan on using a motor or two for the P/S, A/C, vaccuum booster for the brakes. But that's a nice idea to use a manual steering box. Maybe I'll look into that.

There's a local mechanic that has a '99 Passat 1.8 turbo with a manual trans, leather, and only 60,000 miles. The engine is blown up so he wants $2500 for it. I was really tempted but I read so many negative reviews from folks who HATE their VW's I really didn't want to go there. But the Passat does get better marks for comfort and quiet than the 190E so I'm not going to rule it out completely. Not a big fan of BMW's. I've known too many guys who are Saab mechanics that HATE working on the 900's. They DO ride really well though. Thanks for the ideas.

-Rick

Actually, I meant get an AT car and swap in an MT. Bolting an MT in place of an AT is easy. Clutch hardware is difficult to transplant, but you can skip that and shift without a clutch pedal on the rare occassion you actually shift while rolling.

Sixto
87 300D