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-   -   190e m103 supercharger almost complete (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-benz-performance-paddock/112962-190e-m103-supercharger-almost-complete.html)

benzito190 01-15-2005 04:37 PM

190e m103 supercharger almost complete
 
Well, I have all the mounting brackets finished, and have a newly welded upper trans cooler line to clear the pulley on an m45 blower from a c230 kompressor. Now that most of the fab work is done, I'm wonding if anybody has any suggestions on what to do with the fuel system, with a boost referenced fuel pressure regulator, should I need anything else on the mass airflow based cis-e jetronic setup on my car? I'm looking at a solid 210-220hp with the pulley ratios that I'm running (sc will be running @ 14,500rpm @ 6000rpm on the motor), and I'm pretty confident that the cis can support it, any body have any doubts aimed towards the cis setup for under 230hp applications?

Rgaling 01-17-2005 10:27 PM

Contact Split Second; www.spiltsec.com

They have several options in controlling fuel delivery with force induction.

benzito190 01-29-2005 12:48 PM

It's done
 
Well, the supercharger is on the car... it's on the belt drive, and the bypass assembly is done. Runs GREAT! Looks like the lil m45 was enough to wake up a 190e after all! The power delivery is Very smooth, it feels basically like a much happier naturally aspirated engine. It doesn't deliver quite as much increase in power up above 5000 rpm, but the diufference from 1800-4000 is really noticable, the m103 was kinda anemic down low, now it feels like it's got an extra liter under that cylinder head below 3500rpm. I'm quite pleased with the setup, and if anybody's interested I'd be happy to share some info with you and post some pictures or something. Total cost of the project to date was about $400-430: $220 for the m45 shipped off ebay, $30 for the air filter assembly, About $50 in gas welding wire, and a couple tools, $50 worth of steel, $30 for a belt, a free toyota tercel throttle body turned into a bypass valve, and a few bucks for misc. stuff like gas to drive around buying parts. Best $400 I ever spent.

Bill Wood 01-29-2005 12:59 PM

Pics?
 
Post some pics!

Chamorro 01-29-2005 03:21 PM

More details. How much boost? Did you change anything of the fuel injection system? Where'd you mount the SC?

benzito190 01-29-2005 08:02 PM

The sc is mounted on the pass side. I made a bracket that bolts to 2 of the forward exhaust manifold bolt holes, a timing cover bolt and a valve cover bolt, so the eaton blower lays an inch or so over the exhaust manifold with the bracket acting as a heat shield. The outlet aims back then turns over the valve cover with a toyota tercel throttle body and a vaccum actuator serving as the bypass. I just bolted a home-welded flange to the top of the cis maf (2 small bolts hold it onto the maf). I haven't gotten a good reading on boost, but if my math is correct I should be somewhere between 4 and 5 psi. No mods to the fuel system, I just ran the vaccum line from the regulator into the cross tube behind the bypass to give some sorta reference pressure for the fuel system. I'm really impressed with how the jetronic setup is handling boost... no flat spots, no pinging, and the exhaust color around the muffler is just about right (hopefully that means the F/A ratio is staying solid). Desktop dyno estimates it @ 210-215hp with a flat torque curve from 2500-4800, so it should kinda simulate a 190e with the m104 as far as power goes... I'll get some pics up tomorrow once I have a chance to get my cheapo walmart camera under the hood.

BF_JC230 01-29-2005 08:45 PM

yes please - pictures

super SEC 01-29-2005 10:20 PM

Did you enrich the fuel via the EHA valve? I'm running an ATI Procharger and around 10 psi in my CIS-E 560 SEC. I know for a fact that the 560's CIS will flow over 400 hp. I have my EHA turned 8 turns clockwise to compensate for the extra air. Since the addition of a larger diameter crank pulley and a smaller diameter blower pulley, I've been running lean on fuel at around 5,000 rpm.

My last dyno run was 346 RWHP and 404 RWTQ on a dynojet. I've added the cog pulley system and an air to air intercooler since. I'm now spinning the ATI Procharger P1SC blower at 62,000 rpm. I'd estimate I'm close to 500 hp with my CIS. However, the CIS is the limiting factor to more horsepower gains so I'm looking at switching to an aftermarket EFI system.

benzito190 01-31-2005 03:11 PM

Sorry no pics yet, yesterday was busy, hopefully they'll be up today after work... In any case, I really haven't touched the fuel system other than running the regulator ref hose to the cross tube behind the bypass valve, seems to run really smooth and without ping over the entire powerband on 91 octane, looks like the new o2 sensor is responsive enough to cover the fuel adjustment. Though I'm only pushing around 4-5psi oh the high end. Actually, I wasn't aware that the EHA is mechanically adjustable, so I should thow a fuel mixture gauge on there and adjust as neccassary, thanks for the insight. The flange that I made to the cis unit is pretty rigged up right now (yucky welds) so once I get some pipe bent to the right shape and redo the flange, I should get some better flow. I'm pretty confident that the 2 pump cis on the m103 should be able to flow enough for 300hp easily with minor modification, though i'm probably pushing around 210 at the crank (low side of the desktop dyno estimate) with the current pulley ratio (14400rpm blower @ 6000rpm engine speed), which feels just about right on the butt dyno.

mctwin2kman 01-31-2005 04:46 PM

The EHA when removed has one screw on it. It is a cover for an allen keyed screw! Turning Clockwise will make the mixture more rich, by changing the pressure diference in the fuel distributor top/bottom. I would not start with 8 turns but maybe 1/2 at first. You will have to reset the base mixture via the Lambda tower as well. Now the reason you do not want to go to far is because then you would be too rich on off throttle due to the EHA not being able to lean the mixture out enough. Of course testing with fuel pressure gauges would be the best way to go while adjusting. I would think with that low a boost you probably only need a full turn to compensate.

Edit: This adjustment increases Fuel flow at WOT, but can of course go too far hence the do a little at a time!

super SEC 01-31-2005 09:04 PM

Quote:

I would not start with 8 turns but maybe 1/2 at first. You will have to reset the base mixture via the Lambda tower as well. Now the reason you do not want to go to far is because then you would be too rich on off throttle due to the EHA not being able to lean the mixture out enough. Of course testing with fuel pressure gauges would be the best way to go while adjusting. I would think with that low a boost you probably only need a full turn to compensate.
Yeah, you only want to do around 1/2 to 1/4 turns at a time. You have to adjust the idle screw to compensate for the extra pressure. For every turn, expect to turn the idle air screw around 1/4 to 1/2 turn counter clockwise to compensate for the extra fuel. It is going to take a bit of adjustment to get it right on the money.

Don't fool yourself. The O2 sensor will not compensate for the extra air flow of a supercharger. It only operates in a pretty narrow range. I can guarantee that you will need to adjust the EHA if you are pushing 4 to 5 psi. Have you measured the boost inside the intake yet?

Get on a dyno and buy an hour or two of time so you can properly tune the engine. You will want to adjust the EHA vale to maximize your hp. Make sure the dyno is equipped with an O2 sensor so you can look at your air/fuel curves.

benzito190 01-31-2005 09:37 PM

5 Attachment(s)
I've attached some photos of the setup as it sits right now, sorry about the crap wal mart cam quality, but it's all I have right now, plus I need to finish up on cosmetics and fine tuning

benzito190 01-31-2005 09:54 PM

PS, thanks for the advice on the eha adjustment, sounds like that should help a bit.

Ashman 02-01-2005 12:23 AM

looks pretty good.

That would be a nice project on my M104... :)

Alon

rammbs 02-01-2005 12:41 AM

wow! very nice project! congrats!!!

benzito190 02-01-2005 03:52 AM

Thanks for the kind words. Also, superSEC and others with supercharging experience. I put a gauge on it tonight and I pushed a hair under 6psi @ 5500rpm peak behind the bypass and about 4-4.5 in the intake manifold (which confirms that I need to refab smoother intake plumbing, already got the bends to do it). Anybody have thoughts on intercooling? I've done a few turbo projects and I know intercoolers can be quite beneficial over 8 psi in turbo applications, though I've read that even roots blowers tend to put out lower outlet temps at peak efficiency and the temp maps seem to confirm that. Do you think I would gain anything worthwhile out of throwing a good intercooler in there somewhere? If so, thoughts on air-air vs. air-water? I'm kinda skeptical when it comes to whether it's worth all the work to gain 1-5hp with only 5psi on tap. I"m also not getting any signs of pinging or preignition (just checked plugs) even on southern california's crap 91 octane premium while driving pretty hard, and that's with a probably factory position on the EHA screw. So the intake charge isn't exactly super-heated.

Blown_M104 02-01-2005 10:57 AM

Congrats Nice Work
 
2 Attachment(s)
I agree nice work on your Blower install!

I almost went with an M45 on my project but opt'd out for a centrifugal unit instead. I'm runing 6-7 PSI at redline on a 93 M104 3.2L.

Mine has been installed since Dec. and I've have not had any real problems with it.
I do however need to get on Dyno to check-out the air/ fuel ratio. I'm probably leaving some Hp on the table without having it fully dialed-in.

Have a look...

Tobben, Norway 02-01-2005 11:33 AM

@Blown M104

Hi, I have just finished my kompressor mod. on my M104.
But here in norway there is a LOT of snow right no, so I have't had the opertunity to test it yet.

I have mounted an Eaton kompressor and the engine is controlled with a Electromotive TEC II system.
And like you I have no intercooler because the boost will be around 0,4 - 0,5 b

Do you know about how hot the inlet air gets? I'm a bit sceptical to this faktor.

(hope you understand what i wrote, sorry about the crapy english)

Tobben, Norway 02-01-2005 11:42 AM

Some pics:

http://home.online.no/~torflen/mbk5.jpg
http://home.online.no/~torflen/mbk4.jpg
http://home.online.no/~torflen/mbk3.jpg
http://home.online.no/~torflen/mbk2.jpg
http://home.online.no/~torflen/mbk1.jpg

benzito190 02-01-2005 12:55 PM

Wow, nice installs Blown_M104 & Tobben. I wish I had the money to put in a paxton or vortech unit, but $205 on an ebay benz eaton m45 was just about in my budget. http://www.automotive.eaton.com/product/engine_controls/superchargers/M45.asp this site has all the specs on the eaton roots blowers (cfm, hp to turn, outlet temp). My m45 at it's current pressure is only increasing the outlet temp to like 120F max on a 70F-80F day, so I'm thinking an intercooler wouldn't improve the setup's power output by anything really noticable. Congrats on those m104's that's some oh-so-good fabrication, I'm still working on cleaning up/painting everything on mine to make it look nice now that it's functional. If only I had an additional cam and some more displacement on this m103 I would be looking at much higher output, oh well :P

Blown_M104 02-01-2005 03:00 PM

Inlet Air Temp
 
Tobben

Love your install on the M104!
I wish we would have crossed pathes a few months back.

To answer your question I'm not sure about the inlet air temp.
Believe it or not we've had a rather cold winter here in Atlanta with a hugh ice storm just this last weekend. My project orginally included an air-to-air intercooler in the fender just in front of the pass side tire. The piping to and from the intercooler was a mess and I was lossing boost with all the turns so I took it off after a couple weeks. The performance inproved and I have had no hot inlet issues (yet). Once summer arrives I'll re-look at the intercooler idea and probably consider a small air-water unit.

Now a couple questions for you:
On the intake runners you have a boost gauge installed; what device was in that location before?
Have you made any changes to the ECU/ Fuel delivery system to handle the increase in air flow? If so what changes?

Thanks!

benzito190 02-01-2005 06:54 PM

on the intake manifold I teed the vac/boost gauge off of the same line that runs to the EZL ignition module (which references from the plenum rather from an individual runner). Since it is directly on the plenum and the EZL is completely sealed, I figure it should be a pretty accurate manifold vac/pressure reference point (rather than the transmission vac line which comes off the #6 manifold runner). Nothing whatsoever done to the fuel system really, I took the vaccum line from the fuel pressure reg and ran it into the tube that my bypass is mounted on so that it will exert a little bit of pressure on the regulator diaphragm (since the jetronic unit adjusts it's reference pressure against the resistance of the MAF this really doesn't do anything, but I like the idea of keeping fuel pressure in check with the boost pressure). Other than the supercharger and tubing, the engine is basically bone stock in every sense.

Tobben, Norway 02-02-2005 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blown_M104
Tobben

Love your install on the M104!
I wish we would have crossed pathes a few months back.

To answer your question I'm not sure about the inlet air temp.
Believe it or not we've had a rather cold winter here in Atlanta with a hugh ice storm just this last weekend. My project orginally included an air-to-air intercooler in the fender just in front of the pass side tire. The piping to and from the intercooler was a mess and I was lossing boost with all the turns so I took it off after a couple weeks. The performance inproved and I have had no hot inlet issues (yet). Once summer arrives I'll re-look at the intercooler idea and probably consider a small air-water unit.

Now a couple questions for you:
On the intake runners you have a boost gauge installed; what device was in that location before?
Have you made any changes to the ECU/ Fuel delivery system to handle the increase in air flow? If so what changes?

Thanks!

Hi!!

Finaly someone that has done "the samething" to he's engine :) Nice to share experience with someone.

On the intake runners/plenum there were a device that separates the plenum. It crates a longer runner if you know what I meen. Long runners creates more tourq at low engine revs. And this "device" keep them separated intill the engine comes over 3600rpm's, then it opens the plenum so the runners become just as long as you can see on the picture (from the boost gauge and in to the enginehead.)
This happens at the same time as the intake cam turns 8 degrees.

I have mounted a computer controlled ignition og fuel system, it's name is electromotive TEC II. View
HTML Code:

www.getfuelinjected.com
for details.

Becouse I haven't had the opertunity to test my car, I still have the originale fuelpump. But I'm unsoure this pump will give the flow required...
Injectors are replaced with Bosch's 440cc. And the enginehead are modified so the compression ratio are now 9,54:1 insted of 10,5:1 (org.)

Blown_M104 02-02-2005 01:57 PM

Thanks for the answers
 
Tobben:

Thanks for the responces to my questions, that was very helpful. :)

I have the stock fuel pump, stock injectors, Stock ECU and stock compression ratio on my setup. I'll look at the aftermarket EFI system thanks for the link!

nukblazi 02-02-2005 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benzito190
Wow, nice installs Blown_M104 & Tobben. I wish I had the money to put in a paxton or vortech unit, but $205 on an ebay benz eaton m45 was just about in my budget. http://www.automotive.eaton.com/product/engine_controls/superchargers/M45.asp this site has all the specs on the eaton roots blowers (cfm, hp to turn, outlet temp). My m45 at it's current pressure is only increasing the outlet temp to like 120F max on a 70F-80F day, so I'm thinking an intercooler wouldn't improve the setup's power output by anything really noticable. Congrats on those m104's that's some oh-so-good fabrication, I'm still working on cleaning up/painting everything on mine to make it look nice now that it's functional. If only I had an additional cam and some more displacement on this m103 I would be looking at much higher output, oh well :P

I know this is pricey, maybe there is an OEM pulley you could find to swap on, but, you can contact Unorthodox Racing in NY and they will build you an alloy pulley to your specs.

They quoted me $1k to build and an OEM alloy pulley since it'd be a one off. I am prepping my car for SCCA Street Prepared class, and the Kleemann over-boost pulley I have on is illegal, but the OEM alloy would recoup some lost ponies.

To all of you, very, very nice work.

benzito190 02-04-2005 01:49 PM

I've been getting a bunch of private feeback on this system, I'm wondering if it would be worth rigging up a jig to copy my bracketry if people are willing enough to supply their own super chargers on the 2.6 motors. Most people that do custom fabrication charge completely unreasonable amounts of money to put an hour into welding a simple bracket or the like. Ex. a custom pulley probably takes somebody like 30min-1hr to make on a good metal lathe = $1000!!! not cool. So I'd be keeping pricing at least reasonable.

pentoman 02-04-2005 03:14 PM

Presumably this would work very similarly on the M102 (2.0 and 2.3) engines too as they are just an M103 with 2 cylinders removed?

Maybe even the 16v....... that would probably make it pretty popular.

How strong are the internals of the 102 and 103 and do you think your car will stand ~210bhp in everyday use?

Russ

benzito190 02-04-2005 03:51 PM

Yeah if, somebody is willing the get their m102 powered benz to me here in southern california, that would be about as easy. And benz uses all forged bottom ends... it's why you see m102/3's going for 285K miles and still running strong. I dropped my pan when I bought the car, everything has forging marks (flatter seems rather than sharp casting seems) and it's a VERY robust bottom end, strong looking main caps. I'd easily trust it past 300hp, at which point the transmission would probably be the weak point. And the m102 bottom end could probably take at least 280 with complete reliability as far as I can tell if it's built anything like it's 6 banger offshoot. the front end is somewhat similar on these motors, but I wouldn't expect the same bracket to work, I'd probably have to move the mounting points around a little.

mctwin2kman 02-04-2005 04:06 PM

I would send you my M102 one but I am accross the way to far!!!! I would be interested though if you get a bracket made for the M102.

Chamorro 02-04-2005 04:59 PM

I'd do it, but I've already given my 4-cyl to my dad. How much time would you need to measure, etc.?

andy190380 02-06-2005 12:35 PM

Wow a SC kit you could make money off that!
 
Benzito I have talked with you in private about the supercharger.

I have an Eaton M90 3rd gen as I told you but I have a 1992 with EGR and Air Pump so this leaves a bit of a question. Now I have studied up on dimensions differences and now im thinking the M90 may not fit at all.

M45 dimensions
Eaton M45 3rd gen.

13 in long and 4.8" high and 7" wide. Would you say these are the proper dimensions of your specific SC?

now here are the M90 dimensions.

Eaton M90 3rd gen.

16.4 inches long 5.5 in high 8.1 inches wide.

What do you think too big?



Also, how did you make your gaskets or do you not have any gaskets? I figure I need gaskets between the inlet to the SC and the outlet to the sc then another one for the throttle body. Do you know of a company that can do cutsom metal work or can your friend do it? Id be willing ot pay up to $1000 for the custom parts I need, maybe more if they are all to specification.

In other words in need the Mounts the flange and manifold for the intake to the SC and the outlet and the throttle body connection. I can get my own pipes and bypass valve.

Cant wait to see the pics

ANDY

HZach 02-07-2005 02:46 PM

Questions for Blown M104 and Tobben:
 
I am contemplating an Eaton M62 for my '90 M104. Did you guys get rid of the air pump to mount the SC or did you mount it next to the pump? It is hard to see on the pictures you posted.

Thanks for the info.

Blown_M104 02-07-2005 04:22 PM

Your Question on Blower placement...
 
HZach;

On my install the SMOG pump was removed to make way for the blower. The install was a lot easer with it out of the way. This factory air pump only runs a very small percentage of the time anyway and it is certainly not missed.

I've got some high resolution photos of the blower placement; if you want them send me an email address than can handle a few Mb.

benzito190 02-07-2005 08:05 PM

Sorry about the delay guys, been a busy week... anyhow. I honestly think the m90 is WAY to big in displacement if not size. It's more suited for v8's over 4.5 liters (for example,m they use it on the 5.4L lightning motor). An m45 is working great for performance increase and better overall drivability plus it's easy on gas milage in normal operation and easy on the stock FI system. The m62 could fit and would probably work well on a stronger m103 builup with some more major fuel system mods and would probably actually be better suited to the 3.2L m104 mills. I just custom-cut some autozone gasket paper and topped it with some RTV sealant. As for fabrication, if I can find time, I've become pretty good at fabrication work and I could probably make a bracket for a fair price (mine took out about $50-60 in materials includeing the idler on a high guess and took me a couple evenings to really get it all lined up properly. So maybe $250 altogether sound fair for the mounting bracketry?). I could do it pretty quickly if you're willing to go for the same sc that I have (an eaton m45 off an earlier c230k). That way I could just copy my bracket. Mine set me back $220 for the unit and about $25 for the rear rotor bearings shipped. My car never had a smog pump (go 1989!), or egr for that matter, so that left a big fat hole next to my engine that fit the c230k unit perfectly. It would still fit fine on newer models, but you'd have to remove the smog pump and idler.

super SEC 02-07-2005 10:50 PM

M90 is designed for cars from 3.0 L to 5.0 L in displacment.
A Ford Lightning uses the M112.
M45 is designed for cars with between 2.0 to 3.0 L in displacement.
M62 is designed for a 2.5 L to 4.0 L engine.

For more information: http://automotive.eaton.com/product/engine_controls/superchargers/superchargers.asp

ke6dcj 02-08-2005 01:18 AM

People have had success with the air-to-water intercoolers off a GM Typhoon and using a Mercedes/Bosch auxiliary water-pump.

:-) neil

http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=256178&highlight=typhoon+intercooler

http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=331340&highlight=water+intercooler

benzito190 02-08-2005 12:45 PM

Thanks for the correction, I lost a category of eatons in my mind somehow... the m112 is the lightning charger. The m90 was used on some of the 3rd gen 3800SC GM mills. I'm still a little iffy on whether the m90 would be a good match for a 2.6L-3L motor unless the entire fuel/ignition system was revised. I could be wrong on this but I'm pretty sure the 3.2 AMG motors use a proprietary m62 cast and manage to put a very respectable amount of power to the ground. For a higher output buildup, from what I have read, I would opt for the m62 on the 2.6L m103. I figure if the 45 cubic inch blower can make a really noticable increase while staying more or less within the factory spec (14000rpm, mine spins up to roughly 14400 @ 6Krpm), a 62ci blower could make quite a bit of power.

Sportline93 02-08-2005 04:35 PM

I am in southern california and I would love to see your supercharger setup....for around $400-$500 I would be able to do it too. You think it would be possible to meet up so I could check out your setup?

Thanks, Chris

Badinfo 02-08-2005 05:11 PM

Do you guys think the m45 generates enough boost for a 3 litre m103 application? Something mild but i dont want boost completely running out on the top end.

wbain5280 02-09-2005 01:28 AM

Wouldn't an M62 be better for a M103 3.0L engine?

Badinfo 02-09-2005 02:48 AM

Thats what I am thinking.

benzito190 02-09-2005 03:51 AM

Sportline, yeah I'm in the riverside/san bernardino area so you're only about an hour drive away, it would be nice to see an actual sportline too, you don't see too many of those driving around. Right now, I am taking the sc off for a few days to replace the rear bearings and brush up the cosmetics of the system + maybe some fine adjustments on belt length and bracket, Though once I have it finished it would be cool to meet up. Plus it's always cool to talk to other benz guys. I thiink I'd opt for the m62 on a 3 or 3.2 liter setup. The m45 would make a little bit of boost, but even with a bit of an overdrive it's only good for about 215-220hp on the high end. The m62 is good for the mid 200's without too much trouble. If I had the flexibility of an extra half liter, I would have probably gone with the m62, but I didn't really feel like pushing a 2.6L with over 130k miles on it with the bigger 62ci blower. Though who knows, maybe after a rebuild I will go for a bigger blower or a turbo setup. Not to mention the 300e is a bit heavier than the 190e so the weight would probably work out well with the extra output capability of the m62. I'd imagine a ford t-bird super coupe m62 would fit nicely, and the brackets would be pretty basic.

Sportline93 02-10-2005 12:09 AM

Sounds good. Jus let me know whenever you want to meet up. The M45 sounds good for my 2.6.

benzito190 02-12-2005 12:46 PM

My rear rotor bearings came in the mail, so the sc system is all apart again, I'll post some pics of the bracketry now that it's exposed and visible. Unfortunately, financial constraints will probably keep me from getting it all back together until next weekend with a new/improved flange setup on top of the cis box :-( but I'll keep everybody updated.

mnoll4060 02-23-2005 04:12 AM

Hey Benzito,
Great work, and great thread. I had no idea cis could support forced induction. I thought I would have to go EFI. I have some questions about the EHA and fuell mix tower. I thought EHA only controlled idle, does it control through the whole RPM range? I'm getting some hesitation when flooring it at higher rpm's. I'm also in Sothern Ca. Would love to see the setup some time.

Mike

benzito190 02-26-2005 12:44 PM

Yeah, lots of audis, saabs, and volvos came turbocharged with cis systems almost identical in design to ours. The screw adjustment ("fuel tower") control idle mixture, the EHA controls mixture under acceleration. As far as the setup goes, it's been surprizingly reliable, though I do still have the super charger off to change the rear bearings (I got it as a used unit) because I'd feel safe knowing all the bearing on the unit are fresh and healthy. Although I'd definitely like to show it off to some forum members in the area, once the sc is back on the car if you're interested. Which leads me to another question, the bearings I have are wrong, any body know where to get sc bearings for mercedes specific m45 blowers?

Sportline93 03-16-2005 03:35 AM

So is the SC back on yet?

benzito190 03-16-2005 05:33 AM

no go yet
 
Well, I have officially talked to every bearing supply shop in southern california and nobody can find a match on these bizarro rear rotor bearings on the sc. I sent one of the old bearings off to some bearing supply in new jersey and that guys is being pretty helpful, he may be able to improvise something... if not I will have to throw an aluminum billet on a lathe when I get a chance and make some spacers to adapt the ford T-bird supercharger bearings to my sc... I"m just waiting on the guy in newjersey as my sc has longer bearings allowing a larger load surface which I would prefer to keep, but last resort, which is getting close, I'll just make spacers for the standard eaton bearings. Either that or learn german and start making long distance calls to the fatherland to see if anybody in germany knows anything about merc superchargers. What a headache.

vanir 03-16-2005 07:22 AM

Looks like I'm starting a controversial posting habit, but this example of computer modelling fits perfectly with what I've learned through the peripherary automotive industry and around the traps modifying cars.

The thing to keep in mind about these Eaton superchargers is their engineered ratings and then a pack of overmarketing regarding them, although in their realm they are quite nice.
Their 5-10psi advertised boost ratings are both rather optimistic and speculated at their minimum recommended, stock engine capacities, which for the M/MP45 is 1.0 litres. Trust me, a bypass valve is hardly needed with these low-blowers.

I don't have detailed specs on the circa. 1990 Merc engines such as the 2.6 litre so I used an existing stock 944 engine shell of similar capacity and overall layout in the computer models.

Stock Porsche 944 2.5 litre DOHC 2-valve 4cyl. figures:

167bhp@5500rpm 178ft.lbs.tq.@4000rpm
retains 162bhp at 6000 and peaks at 96.7% VE at 5000.
actual cfm through cylinders is 223 at hp peak (25lbs/hr injectors and 58mm throttle body)
intake valve/porting is considered slightly restrictive.
torquey motor, a little underpowered at top end.

Fitment of MP45 Eaton supercharger (slightly higher rated than M45) piped to stock injection manifolding (throttle body relocated as a draw-through) at 2.2:1 pulley overdrive (14,300rpm @ 6000rpm engine speed) to stock 944 2.5 litre motor *keep in mind these superchargers are rated at 14,000rpm maximum safe speed and warranties are void with greater than 2:1 pulley overdrive*:

183bhp@5500rpm 194ft.lbs.tq.@4000rpm
retains 178bhp at 6000 and peaks at 107.5% VE at 5000 (undersized for engine, 120-130% VE considered standard for low boost supercharging)
actual cfm through cylinders is 248 at hp peak (with 30lbs/hr injectors as required for application)
max. boost is rated at 3.1psi (0.2 bar) @ 3000rpm and the supercharger is considered undersized for this motor at 44cfm per cycle and drops off actual chamber pressure from 3500rpm through to about 6500rpm (maintaining around 2psi average boost between these rpm due to a greater cfm bearing naturally aspirated dynamic than the tiny blower can overcome).
Knock index remains low although peaks a little (1.7 which is still safe on high grade premium unleaded), at around 5000rpm. But keep in mind these engines run a stock compression ratio of 10.5:1 static (about 8.8:1 dynamic compression due to sporty cam overlaps standard).

The verdict? The tiny Eaton M/MP44 is really designed for 1.5 litre Hyundai's and works best on this larger capacity, DOHC and already highly efficient engine at 3000rpm, where it delivers 189ft.lbs. of usable torque due to its 3.1psi boost at that rpm. It's the best it can do at only 44cfm per cycle unless you overdrive the pulleys 'till it desintegrates in your engine bay.
You can never achieve high hp ratings in the mid 2-litre class DOHC with this sized blower, it's just not engineered for it. You can however make an expensive mistake or make a good torquer that'll take off well from the lights and still get away with lower premium grades of unleaded fuel (90 or 92 octane as opposed to 96, fuel additives or spark retarding).

Example 2:
same setup with a good flow bench job on the head, a custom set of tuned turbo headers and aftermarket exhaust, a 72mm throttle body and K&N style air cleaner, minimum 32lbs/hr injectors are required.

208bhp@6000rpm and 199ft.lbs.tq.@4000rpm
a much nicer power curves graph and a good delivery although boost remains low at higher revs. 3.1psi @ 2500rpm and average of 1.5psi from 3000-6000rpm.
VE is up to 110.2% at 5000rpm and an actual cfm rating of 286 is at the hp peak.

Example 3:
now let's try the aftermarket recommended Eaton supercharger for this engine capacity, the MP62 (62cfm per cycle and rated at 16,000rpm max safe speed for higher overdrive ratios, but I kept the factory recommended 2:1 for up to 8000 engine rpm safe speeds and good reliability).
First I lowered the static compression ratio more in keeping with stock MB form, to 9:1 static. I kept the headwork and basic breathing modifications of example 2 above.

233bhp@6000rpm and 222ft.lbs.tq.@4000rpm and a much nicer package overall.
VE peaks at 128.3% in the 5000rpm area. This is more in line with low boost supercharging recommendations for this engine capacity.
Actual cfm is 331 at the hp peak. 35lbs/hr injectors are required to maintain the necessary 136lbs/hr total fuel flow at that engine speed.
Max boost at the cylinders is now 5.3psi (0.4 bar) around 2500rpm and remains strong in the 4-5psi boost class throughout the rest of the rev range, producing a very strong 186ft.lbs of torque at 2000rpm. Boost pressure is still good at high rpm (hovering around 4psi and that's certainly enough to feel a kick even at 6500rpm). Valve flows and overall fuel delivery dynamics are exceptionally well tuned in this combination.
Knock index is fine for even average grades of premium unleaded at 9:1 static compression.

Squeezing a little more out of it is possible, knocking on the 250bhp door with fitment of intercoolers, slightly overdriving the pulleys and specialized cam timing, but to get significant horsepower increases you'll be looking at larger cfm per cycle superchargers again (90-112 rated Eatons or the magnificent little B&M 144 for mad-hatter full race applications at this engine capacity) and dumping the static compression ratio down for bigger boost.

Of course greater power characteristics are to be gained from centrifugal superchargers with intercooling/water injection in the low boost application for stock/near stock engines. If you want to go silly full race then it's turbocharger or bust.

The moral of all this? Eatons are a nice little blower. Get the right sizing for your engine capacity and application however, as they have limited rpm ratings and are already very highly geared at recommended fitment.
The little M/MP45 will make you happy under 2.5 litres if you just want a little bottom end grunt, it's a nice package you could shove on very high static compression ratios. If you're likely to catch the horsepower bug though, opt for a fourth generation MP62 minimum in that class of engine capacity.
It works out more expensive to find you wanted the upgrade after a conservative installation. But if you're not after that, these "mini" units look really good and kept within the factory ratings, very streetable and a reliable enhancement.
Buy what you're actually after first time around, and you won't find yourself spending hours on the phone trying to turn back the financial clock through a customer service department later. They're not going to care much.

jesser 03-21-2005 03:28 PM

Hello.
First of all congratulations on the succesfull project.
I have a 2.3-16 and I'm also thinking about putting a supercharger on the engine. There are a couple of things though that I'm not quite sure how to arrange. For example the pulley/belt arrangement on the engine side. Do you take the torgue straight from the crankshaft or trough some other pulley?
I would be delighted if you could take some pictures of all the different components of your setup, specially the pulley/belt system and the brackets.


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