W124 wagon suspension experts...advice needed - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

kidMoBile · #1 03-04-2006, 03:34 PM

I'm going to be doing the suspension upgrade....finally....to my 95 wagon this summer. I'll be installing E500 springs all around, E500 rear swaybar, limo front swaybar, E500 struts up front (progressive rate dampening...early model #). The E500 rear struts don't physically bolt on because the lower control arm of the E500 was different from that of the wagon. However, several members who have done this or a similar upgrade have complained that the stock rear hydropmeumatic strut of the wagon may be a poor match for the new springs, as the stock strut dampening is not sufficient enough and leaves the car with a "pogo-stick" feeling in the rear.

My question....several of you own both wagon and E500 or are just familiar with the parts....

Can the E500 rear hydro strut be modified such that it can be bolted into the wagon. Examples....can a small adapter bracket be machined and used to get the E500 strut into the wagon. OR....can the control arm on the wagon be modified (adapter, or new mounting bracket welded on) to get this to work.....etc. i believe this can be done safely, if the geometry allows.

If I had the two parts sitting in front of me, I'd be able to answer the question myself.....but I don't. If anyone with a spare 500E rear strut would let me borrow one they are not using at the moment, I'd return it!

Another option is to source a 95 wagon sportline strut from Germany, but I'd rather not spend money unneccessarily (wait.....I did buy a Mercedes, didn't I?)

Thank you for your help!

Brian

Pete Geither · #2 03-04-2006, 06:22 PM

Brian. Have played around with my wagon just a bit. Cut 4 inches out of the front springs, put 17" AMG's on it and a 500E rear sway bar. For everyday street use it works great. For serious road work it's not the optimum I'm sure, but it sure suits me. Sorry I can't help with the rear strut thingy, but I know you can get into some big bucks there.

Glen · #3 03-08-2006, 11:44 AM

Here are some pictures detailing the differences:

E500 strut on left, wagon strut on right

E500 strut on left, wagon strut on right. Note differences in lower mount

The way I see it, the easiest way would be to use lower control arms from a 400E/500E. The upper mount will work as is. It also just occurred to me that you may be able to drill the holes in the wagon arm out to accomdate the 500E strut...if so, that would be the easiest/least expensive option.

iwrock · #4 03-19-2006, 11:24 PM

I am also considering this. I am thinking of HR springs all the way around, as they are very inexpensive compared to the stock sportsline springs that I want. However the problem I may be facing is that the HR's in the back may wreak havoc on my SLS. Does anyone know if this will work???

ke6dcj · #5 03-21-2006, 03:08 PM

You can get the Euro Sportline springs made specifically for the wagon, AND the Sportline self-levelling struts.

You can also go with the W124 LIMO bar, and a W210 rear-bar made by Eibach, I believe. Combine this with Sportline bushings, and you will feel like you're driving a BMW, not a cushy Mercedes.

:-) neil

iwrock · #6 03-21-2006, 03:32 PM

I am going to put on 1994 E420 bars in place of the stock ones, and I am going to cut about 2 full coils out of the front springs. I think that would stiffen it up, without compromising the SLS in back. I am going to eventually buy a set of Sportsline, as they are hard to find.

And then last but not least, I am going to buy a limo bar and an E55 20MM swaybar. But those are for a different day.

LINDS HANSON · #7 07-26-2006, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ke6dcj

You can get the Euro Sportline springs made specifically for the wagon, AND the Sportline self-levelling struts.

You can also go with the W124 LIMO bar, and a W210 rear-bar made by Eibach, I believe. Combine this with Sportline bushings, and you will feel like you're driving a BMW, not a cushy Mercedes.

:-) neil

Hi, I tried to fit the Eibach 210 rear bar but the positioning of the height sensor is diffferent so the bar does not fit.

iwrock · #8 03-22-2006, 12:01 PM

And also, will my brackets that I have support the newer bigger bushings???

MDMB69 · #9 06-05-2006, 09:11 AM

Just like to add top this.
I recently completed my 124 wagon suspension set up and its fantastic, probably the best handling car I've had.

Eibach springs.
3 rubber spring assisters in front coil, (like those used for towing)
2 rubber spring assisters in rear coils.
Front limo bar
New front Monroe reflex shox
Rear sportline bar
Standard rear SLS shox
Front camber adjusted (unsure of amount but adjusted for less camber)
Toe in approx 2mm
225/45/17 rubber with 36psi (cold) front 35 psi rear

It handles like a go-kart now with a hint of oversteer.

I wouldn't suggest the rear E500 bar with SLS suspension as it gives too much oversteer, unless you intend to upgrade the front bar to the expensive Rentech bar.

I've had dozens of cars with lowered suspension and this is by far best.

ke6dcj · #10 06-05-2006, 09:22 AM

I setup the front wheels with the MOST camber for better holding power during cornering.

I also have the LIMO bar upfront. As such, I am using the 500E rear swaybar, and still find too much understeer.

:-) neil

iwrock · #11 06-05-2006, 02:10 PM

Whoa... Spring assisters.

Where can you get those in the states? I want to keep the nice cornering, but I want to get my stock ride height back. Its too low for the speedbumps here at the college I am going to be attending...

gsxr · #12 06-05-2006, 03:04 PM

He meant spring pads/shims... there are no assisters.

If you want stock ride height but flatter cornering, install stock springs (perhaps the "harder spring" option available in some countries, which may be a bit firmer but without lowering the car) and then install the big sway bars (limo front, with either 500E 18mm rear bar, or H&R 20mm rear bar. At stock ride height, I'd go with Bilstien HD's, not any of the Sport dampers (those are designed for lowered ride height).

iwrock · #13 06-05-2006, 03:32 PM

Dave, they are these thingers...

http://www.springassisters.co.uk/menu.htm

They go in the spring and give it less travel. I think that would be the easiest route to firm it up a bit.

RG5384 · #14 06-25-2006, 03:54 AM

Umm...arent you supposed to match the SPRING RATE of the spring with the shock/strut? Assuming that is the case(which i'm positive it is), wouldn't this make cutting the springs pretty darn dumb? All you would be doing is reducing the amount of travel the spring is able to go, without really adjusting at all how much pressure it takes to compress it. Those two concepts seem counter-productive to me. The Whole point behind lowering a car aside from the aesthetic look is to increase the spring rate, we all know when you do that you need to get shocks/struts to be able to handle the increase in spring rate. Match your shocks with your springs, thats all i'm saying here. Don't just cut your springs, throw on a set of new shocks and think your car handles better, it doesn't. Its called suspension GEOMETRY for a reason, everything has a purpose, you can't put a cadillac and a ferrari's suspension together and expect to get good results.
Ryan

LINDS HANSON · #15 07-28-2006, 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDMB69

Just like to add top this.
I recently completed my 124 wagon suspension set up and its fantastic, probably the best handling car I've had.

Eibach springs.
3 rubber spring assisters in front coil, (like those used for towing)
2 rubber spring assisters in rear coils.
Front limo bar
New front Monroe reflex shox
Rear sportline bar
Standard rear SLS shox
Front camber adjusted (unsure of amount but adjusted for less camber)
Toe in approx 2mm
225/45/17 rubber with 36psi (cold) front 35 psi rear

It handles like a go-kart now with a hint of oversteer.

I wouldn't suggest the rear E500 bar with SLS suspension as it gives too much oversteer, unless you intend to upgrade the front bar to the expensive Rentech bar.

I've had dozens of cars with lowered suspension and this is by far best.

So did you try a 500 rear bar or are you just speculating? I have the sportline bars on my 300TE and still find there is too much body roll, I think the oversteer issue will be far worse with the tyre pressuresthat you are running! the E500 certainly doesnt suffer from oversteer with less rear end weight then the wagon.