Would it be possible to make a 3.6L M104 KE-Jetronic? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

400Eric · #16 08-20-2010, 02:08 AM

Ps2cho, also be aware of the fact that your 2 cars are pre-90s and the CIS changed a lot starting with the 90 MY which is the same year the M104s came out. (CIS M104s ran from 90-92) so you have even less compatibility there than you may have thought.

And yes, the trans behind the 2.6 is substantially weaker than the trans behind the 3.0 M103.
Regards, Eric

carat 3.6 amg · #17 02-12-2011, 05:04 PM

Hi guys, I'm new to this forum but just wanted to add my veiw on this conversion. My project car, which is now on to its second engine conversion has the complete bottom end from a c36 amg but with the head and injection system from the 3.0 k-jet m104 mated to the getrag dogleg gearbox. I chose this setup as being the most cost efective route to more power as my car was origanly a m103 3.0 auto, and I dont like wiring jobs! I havent yet had the car on a dyno but it dosent seem that much slower than the c36 the engine came from, and as mine is now manual it's alot of fun!

bsmuwk · #18 02-12-2011, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carat 3.6 amg

Hi guys, I'm new to this forum but just wanted to add my veiw on this conversion. My project car, which is now on to its second engine conversion has the complete bottom end from a c36 amg but with the head and injection system from the 3.0 k-jet m104 mated to the getrag dogleg gearbox. I chose this setup as being the most cost efective route to more power as my car was origanly a m103 3.0 auto, and I dont like wiring jobs! I havent yet had the car on a dyno but it dosent seem that much slower than the c36 the engine came from, and as mine is now manual it's alot of fun!

get it on the dyno!

carat 3.6 amg · #19 02-13-2011, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsmuwk

get it on the dyno!

I will at some point but I want to do a few other mods to it first. Just fitted a remus back box so now I want to try to make a set of tubular manifolds for it. Also looking at a set of e55 amg monoblocks as it still has the original 15 hole alloys on the car, although with the 15's it will smoke it's back tyres all the way through 2nd gear.

ke6dcj · #20 03-03-2011, 10:12 PM

We need pics!

I have a C36-powered (full HFM) W124 wagon, and I'm itching for a 16v tranny . . .

:-) neil

carat 3.6 amg · #21 03-04-2011, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ke6dcj

We need pics!

I have a C36-powered (full HFM) W124 wagon, and I'm itching for a 16v tranny . . .

:-) neil

I always thought the c36 ecu needed the auto transmission to work correctly? Anyway a few pics for you.

Shoomakan · #22 03-09-2011, 06:10 AM

Hey Carat!

I have a similar setup, but currently still with the 3.0 bottom end. By summer, I intend to swap a C36 motor or block into my car.

I just HATE the shift feel in my car right now, gonna replace the bushing with copper bushings as soon as my car comes out of the bodyshop.

carat 3.6 amg · #23 03-09-2011, 03:22 PM

Mine needs doing also, those rubber bushes give a lot of play in the linkage. I think pumpish made some derilin versions for his.

When you do the 3.6 conversion you wont want to stop driving it for a week, it makes a big difference

ps2cho · #24 03-09-2011, 05:43 PM

Carat, since you stuck with CIS-E, did anything need to be replaced other than the block + head changes.
I'm just trying to see if I can keep the swap as simple as possible since I am not too experienced. I've done a lot of work on CIS, rebuilt my head etc..but never done an engine swap or anything like that. I haven't touched the bottom end of an engine before, but I think its within my capabilities. I plan to get a junk block and work on that so I don't end up destroying my current 2.6 in case something goes wrong.

Any major changes in timing advance or increased fuel flow?

JayRash · #25 03-09-2011, 05:49 PM

i think for the cis all u need is the highflow fuel ditributor head that comes on the cis 300-24 as it has enough flow to just over 300hp. and the ezl from the same as it allows revs to over 7000rpm

ps2cho · #26 03-09-2011, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayRash

i think for the cis all u need is the highflow fuel ditributor head that comes on the cis 300-24 as it has enough flow to just over 300hp. and the ezl from the same as it allows revs to over 7000rpm

So without the EZL it would still be okay, but the rev limit would stay at 6300 or is it required? Something I could add on later maybe?

Makes me wonder if just simply doing a 3.6L M103 would be easier than getting the 104?

Anybody know what the HP on the 3.6L M103 is? I assume that requires the high flow distributor as well...

JayRash · #27 03-10-2011, 04:37 AM

well there is way to take the revs to 7k without that ezl, i just remembered my m103 revs to 7k cause on our cars the ezl cuts ignition at 7k. just replace the fuel relay with a regular bosch relay ie ur mainstream relay used to power up fans and such. yess u dont connect all the lines there but it works more than fine.

as for 3.6m103 it should give u 245 to 250 hp. make sure u retard the cam few degrees as that will give u more top end and since ur bottom end is so much larger u will still get loads of low down pull.

ps2cho · #28 03-10-2011, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayRash

well there is way to take the revs to 7k without that ezl, i just remembered my m103 revs to 7k cause on our cars the ezl cuts ignition at 7k. just replace the fuel relay with a regular bosch relay ie ur mainstream relay used to power up fans and such. yess u dont connect all the lines there but it works more than fine.

as for 3.6m103 it should give u 245 to 250 hp. make sure u retard the cam few degrees as that will give u more top end and since ur bottom end is so much larger u will still get loads of low down pull.

Do you happen to have a part # for this relay?

JayRash · #29 03-10-2011, 12:08 PM

man ay relay, all u need to do is give the fuel pump +ev when ignition is on, what u lose are these functions:

- the ugly fuel cut rev limitter at 6450
- when ignition is on and engine off pumps dont run (with new simple relay once ignition is on fuel pumps contstantly come on ) this is the only down side.

- i'm told fuel relay has a special function that runs for few seconds when engine is seriously cold) i havent noticed any diff without it yet.

carat 3.6 amg · #30 03-10-2011, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ps2cho

Carat, since you stuck with CIS-E, did anything need to be replaced other than the block + head changes.
I'm just trying to see if I can keep the swap as simple as possible since I am not too experienced. I've done a lot of work on CIS, rebuilt my head etc..but never done an engine swap or anything like that. I haven't touched the bottom end of an engine before, but I think its within my capabilities. I plan to get a junk block and work on that so I don't end up destroying my current 2.6 in case something goes wrong.

Any major changes in timing advance or increased fuel flow?

As Jayrash said, the fuel metering head from the cis m104 can flow more than enough fuel to run a 300bhp engine, so needs no changes to the fuel side of things to run a 3.6.

You will need to use the c36 head gasket to mate the cis head to the amg block, and swap over all the cis timing chain setup. The amg camshafts dont fit the cis head, but the 3.0 cams are quite agressive anyway. You must use the variable valve timing sprocket from the 3.6 amg cam,
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES USE THE 3.0 VARIABLE VALVE TIMING SPROCKET UNIT!
Then its just a case of assembly like a normal cis m104, refit the manifolds and swap the engine wiring loom to the cis 24v setup. The only other thing you may find is that the pipes from the oil filter to the oil cooler foul the boss'es on the side of the block. I just altered the pipes to suit.