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No it does not.
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That's what I had in mind. A low profile shifter connected to a remote shift handle. From measurements I took when the trans was in the car (but shifter box hitting the floor with about 1.5" to go) I think there is room for an arrangement like the photo. Might be a bit until I can get back to the car to mock it up again with the S10 tailhousing.
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Making slow but steady progress. I got a S10 rear section. It looks promising. I need to get out to my storage unit and install it. The S10 also has a more favorable trans mount location and it is not angled like the Mustang one. The Mustang mount was so far forward the trans would interfere with the cross member.
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It fits. Not much room on top of the shifter box. I will have to get creative with the shifter. I may have to extend the shift rail out the back of the box. I'm working on a solution for the driveshaft now.
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That's pretty much what I had in mind. The longer Mustang shift rail can be cut and reused for the S10 shifter box with a stub out to connect to a U-joint or whatever I need to extend it to the shifter. It's straightforward enough at this point I don't need to spend any more time on my back in a storage unit. Thanks for the idea Frank.
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A 3.5 coupe with a 6 speed Getrag just sold on BAT. It was a conversion from an Auto. Can't really see much from the photos.
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I can't recall exactly how the shifter rod works in there without looking but doesn't the ball on the bottom of the shifter turn the rod left when you push right and pull it rearward when you push forward? Meaning your shift pattern would be mirrored if you use a linkage/universal joint type shifter attached to it? Definitely not the end of the world but it popped in my head. Still like the idea.
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You are correct Jason. I looked at it some more and have come to the conclusion I will need to cut a hole where the S10 shifter stub is and run a linkage inside the car. I can always patch the hole if ever need be and it will never been seen. The shifter stub will come through the floor behind the A/C surround and the linkage will be under the plastic "console". The hole only needs to be big enough for the "stub" to come through and move. I won't have to modify the tail housing either.
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Tony,
The Tremec remote shifter in your earlier link: https://www.thegearbox.org/catalog/item/3819132/10399030.htm could provide a top cover and shift shaft that would probably work as you describe above. An important component of the Tremec package is the torque link (the aluminum lengthwise casting) that maintains the rotational relationship between gearbox and shift handle. You might have to fabricate your own. |
Hey Frank,
At first I thought that concept might work but there just is not enough space for a linkage in the trans tunnel. The area around the original shifter hole is right above the bulky area at the end of the tail housing. It would require a very complex arrangement that would probably result in sloppy shifting. I can have a more direct connection to the trans shifter with the shift rod in the car and it will be behind the carpeted A/C surround. Here's the link to the one on BAT. Can't really see much/any detail on the shifter. Not a fan of the Tombstone headlights but I guess some people like them. https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1971-mercedes-benz-280se-3-5-coupe-14/ |
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Good idea. I was looking at some kind of Heim joint. There is about 1" of padding and insulation over the area where the rod will be so I can notch it for the rod. The console buts up to the A/C surround so none of the rod will be in exposed area. The wiring loom for the power window switches will need to be relocated. Plenty of ideas on the net for the linkage.
Does anyone out there have a 3.5 stick shift coupe with the original shift handle? Mine had one like this when I bought it and I'm not sure if it is correct. |
Pics and threads. Shame there's no lenght but if you you search the pn on rock Auto you can get specs sometimes. May have to check other brands for the same vehicle.
https://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/universal_inner_tie_rods.asp Sent from my SM-J737A using Tapatalk |
Hi Tony,
Great progress , all very well thought out. I am doing almost exactly what you are doing , an adaptor to fit a t5 to a early m116/m117 block . You are more down the track than i am as i have the adaptor cnc in mdf as a prototype from a cad file i drew , need to make some minor adjustments than its done, using the register on the bellhousing so its a nicely engineered snug fit like you have done. i have a 72 euro 350sl manual car arriving soon to use as a template , will try and replicate that but with t5 instead for my w111 coupe . Thieves stole my orig 2.2 engines so going m116/7 However i since found a early spare alloy 5.0l m117 block i had can bolt to the old bellhousing so i may use that . i have a number of 10:1 968 560 bottom ends so may end up with 560 to t5 using the early alloy block though i think 245hp 5.0 /t5 may suit chassis better. https://cdn3.volusion.com/ymcqg.kvqo...che=1549560633 This mustang T5 is very compact . flange could be modded to accept merc donut. single rail remote shifter which is similiar to the single rail merc boxes on the early 220seb coupes which have remote gear lever. |
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I have since looked at pics of several stick shift 3.5 coupes and they all have the chrome stem and round ball so mine was added later for some reason. Maybe the PO thought it looked more contemporary. I'm going with the original ball.
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Like I said on the other post-this box has some merit-mostly it is more compact. But the extra length of the Mustang trans does not seem to be a problem and I did not want to deal with interfacing to the CV joint flange and large shifter box. Adapting for the slip yoke was simple. I guess the CV joint is the same thing-a yoke welded to a tube. I'm having a custom front driveshaft section made-should be done this week. I'll post a pic when done.
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Driveshaft Ramblings
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My original idea of using a 4.5 rear section with a new front section was not feasible since the front section would only be 10" long. I redesigned my idea to use my original 3 piece rear section with a new front section. Now the 2 sections are about the same length. One of the major hurdles was how to interface the new front section to the original rear section since it needs to connect to the splined male center bearing. I came up with the idea to reuse the female spline connector by using the OD pressed into the driveline tubing. It took some searching to find the correct tubing to interface the splined connector. I used 2.125"x.188" tubing. The machinist took a small cut off the OD of the splined connector to insure concentricity and machined a counterbore in the tubing, pressed in and welded. Much stronger than the original spliced connection. This only works on a car that has a 3 piece driveshaft since it has a short rear driveshaft(and corresponding mount). I marked the driveshaft before I too it apart so I can put it back if I ever need to.
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Been making slow progress-mostly because the car is in a storage unit and the remote shifter linkage has required about 2 dozen re engineerings to get the shifter to come through the floor in the correct location and to get the geometry correct. It also has to withstand the force of shifting with no flex or play. There is very little room under the original shifter hole in the floor since the bulky slip yoke area is there.
Decided I'm not going to cut the hole in the floor for the T5 shifter until I actually need to-I might change my mind by then. |
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I got the shift linkage done-or the prototype-about as much as I can without actually cutting the floor for the T5. Pretty happy with it. There is no loss of motion. I purchased an aftermarket shifter meant for a Mustang and modified it to work with the S10 extension housing. I had to make an interface plate and machine off some shifter mounting surface to account for the added thickness.
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Found an answer to my question about the knob. At some point in production the newer style knob replaced the round ball on chrome rod. Mine is a later production car so the knob is correct.
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So I decided to go the redrilled flywheel route. I bought a McLeod billet mustang flywheel (I got a really good deal on it) and a Auto 4.5 ring gear from a buddy. Taking the new FW, 3.5 FW to copy the pattern from, ring gear and my crankshaft(to insure it fits correctly) to the machine shop next week (If we are not shut down by then). Initial observations: Based on research the 10.5" clutch is more than large enough and more choices than the 11". Plenty of material to redrill center bore and bolt holes. The bolt heads will still cover the elongated hole-even the odd hole. The billet FW ring gear is thick so the 4.5 ring gear drops down over the FW without machining the flywheel. The OD is tapered so the FW may still need to be machined to fit but I don't want to cut off the ring gear just yet in case I need to return the new FW.
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there was a guy with a few 3.5l ring gears on ebay for the longest time. He was looking for about 100$ each at one point. Looks like they're finally gone. -CTH
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Thanks for the info CTH-I'm staying with the 4.5 gear since they are easy to come by and it fits. I want a combo that can easily be duplicated. I decided to go ahead and cut off the ring gear. The 4.5 ring gear slips on like it was made for it. The ring gear is about .2" further back from the block than the 3.5 one. Hopefully close enough not to be an issue. In case anyone wants to duplicate my combination it is a McLeod 463408 flywheel.
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So it fits with enough tightness to center it? Are you going to drill and bolt it on?
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There is a very small clearance-maybe .1" The plan is to center it and drill/tap 6 holes. I will run the idea by the machinist to see if they have another idea.
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Have you checked out the drivenman?
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Pretty cool stuff. Nothing for v8 Mercedes though. I wish this stuff was available when I had my Jag-the trans was pretty rustic.
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Too bad-that's for a 6 cyl car
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That shifter arrangement MIGHT have worked on mine but I would have to cut out a large area where the original and added shifter boxes are and the original shifter hole would be gone. It will be easier to return the car to original with the hole under the A/C unit and the original shifter hole intact. Maybe their T5's have aftermarket gear sets? One would need the tag# to know.
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ha! I guess it was cheaper to model it in software. -CTH
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I was assuming the picture represented the product:D
Machine shop said one more week for the flywheel. |
Got the flywheel back. Fits perfect. Ring gear is in correct location. I will post some pics tomorrow.
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Here is the finished flywheel. I used the 11" clutch mounting holes for the ring gear. It worked out very nicely. Cost was a little less than $600 for the flywheel, ring gear and machining. Shown with 10.5" clutch bolted on. .0005" radial runout-the machinist did a good job. It will be balanced before I use it.
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Looks great!! Definitely considering copying this setup. The euro 4.5 I'm going to be using next season will thank me I'm sure. Strongly considering a low boost turbo as well. So did the 11" clutch holes line up with existing holes or you had been ones drilled in the rim of the gear?
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3 ring gear holes lined up slightly notched other 3 drilled to remainder of 11" clutch bolt holes. I used low head socket screws to attach the ring gear. I can take a better picture. It was nice to use existing holes in the flywheel. I imagine any flywheel with a 10.5/11 pattern would work like this as long as the ring gear fits over the OD of the flywheel.
Mustang clutch larger and more substantial. |
I have been looking at the gear ratios with the new (to me) T5 transmission. The project is not in the car yet so no driving impressions. I installed a 3.27 axle in the car years ago-long before this project. Original 3.69 axle is long gone. I'm wondering if the 3.69 would be better suited to the taller gears of the T5? 5th gear 60mph RPM with the 3.69 would be about 2000 and better acceleration than the 3.27. 60mph RPM with 3.27 is 1744-way lower than needed for cruising. T5 has 3.35 1st gear.
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Tony,
The 3.35 1st x 3.27 final = 10.95:1, which is a comfortable overall first gear. If you were to swap the existing 5th gear pair for the pair from a V6 Mustang you would shorten the overall fifth to a 2.35:1. That's still a bit tall, but OK at 70-75 MPH. |
Yea it would probably be fine but it's a heavy car to get moving. I guess I will have to wait until it can be driven. One can only do so much with on line research. I think it would feel faster with a shorter final drive. I have a spare 3.27-maybe I will see if someone want's to trade a 3.69 for a 3.27. The 3.27's apparently are in demand.
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it will be interesting to see the results. When I get it driving it will be with the 3.5 engine as I sort everything out. I don't want to be sorting it out with a new engine. In fact I plan on installing the new FI/Engine management on the 3.5 and then transfering to the 5.6 and plugging in the displacement increase so the new engine runs well while being initially started and driven. A LSD would be nice. I'm keeping a look out but they are pricy.
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