That's what i have!;)

Two different engines! I like both. I'm more a '60 '70 guy so when it comes to V8s i had a nice W109 6.3. Monster torque, but running out of puff above 4000 rpm. I'm currently building a W111 Coupe with a 5.0 euro M117 mated to a 5 speed manual trans.

When it comes to L6s, I had a few M130 powered cars, but I have to admit I prefer the BMW engines. I own a '72 BM 3.0 CSI and it's just superb over 4000 rpm.

The more cylinders the merrier. Just get a V12. 400+ Ft-Lb torque everywhere revs like a 3.0 inline 6, because it's essentially 2 of them, smooth as a good French wine and sounds really really sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet:D

400E vs. C36
(4.2 M119 V8 W124 vs. 3.6 M104 I6 W202.)

This 3.6 M104 I6's advantages:
Was built, modified, and breathed upon by AMG
Housed in a smaller, lighter car
Owned, maintained and driven by a M.B. master tech
Much better gearing (2.82 vs. 2.24)
Riding on MUCH better tires (4.2 car was/is on tiny 205/60-15s!)
Is newer (about the same miles though)
Not T-boned to within an inch of it's life like the 400E was

This 4.2 M119 V8's advantages:
Um, err, ah, ......
OK! Here are two! It's about a half liter bigger and...
There are 32 ports and valves feeding it instead of only 24.

Here's what happened: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa5h4fq2Jkg
The 4.2 had the higher MPH but the 3.6 had the quicker E/T.
If the 400E had only ONE of those advantages that the C36 enjoys (the 2.82 gears), it would easily out E/T the C36 as well.

The OP's original post was also about handling. There's less engine sitting out in front of the front wheel centerline with the V8, leading to the advantage of better weight distribution.

I don't think M.B. ever made an all aluminum I6. Their all aluminum V-8s are common however.

I had a mildly hopped up late 70s 4.2 I6 AMC Concord (no "e" on the end) that I out top ended a late 70s 450SL with and I also had another mildly hopped up late 70s 4.2 I6 AMC Concord that I out dragged a mid to late 80s 560SL with so I have been on the other side of the fence as well. Still kinda am actually cause all three of my diesels (the Volvo in my sig, a DT466E International, and a "P" pump Cummins powered Ford F700) are all I6s as well as Benzers 1 and 2! I've taken great delight through the years in spanking V8s with my various I6s!

Another thing to consider: My 12 counterweight AMC 4.2 (258) I6 cranks weigh 68 pounds, my AMC 401 (6.6L) V8 cranks weigh 62 pounds! This is despite the fact that the 401 is a much bigger engine and it's cranks are forged (which makes them denser, which makes them heavier) and the 258 cranks are cast (which makes them lighter).

Mag, did you ever post the weights of the 2.8, 3.0, 3.2 and 3.6 cranks? (For those of you who don't know, the 3.6 cranks are really 3.5 diesel cranks.) It is a safe bet that those cranks are way heavier than the 4.2 M119 crank, probably even heavier than the AMC 4.2 I6 cranks since the M.B. cranks are all forged.

This is another one of those arguments where it's kinda like trying to prove which is better: Blonds or Brunettes! (For the record, Brunettes are better!)

I'd still love to be able to add a C36 to my fleet though. :cool::P;):D
Regards, Eric

I did, and I forgot the numbers. The 3.5 diesel crank is significantly heavier than the AMG crank since amg did some lightening (read: clearancing) on the crank. There is a ton of weight to be removed from them though, and I think when I build my motor I'm going to have the crank knife-edged. The one thing the M104's love to do though is turn. I'm not sure how having the stroker crank is going to change that... I'm still trying to figure out a good rod length/ compression height compromise for a low CR (9:1 ballpark) but decent rod length/stroke ratio.

The M119 head does breathe really well though and a pretty close to production M119 block and heads were used pretty extensively in racing with decent results. Never seen an M104 compaigned from the factory, and I still cant find a good flow bench or decent numbers for the gal'.


And Eric, Brunettes are better.

Any idea who this was and/or what he did to his 2.8. I wonder what version of 2.8 it was, hmmm.

Yes

He's a moderator on this sight. You will find him allot under Tech Help.

Was it the M110 or the M104.94?

You did post the weights? Where? I'm really curious! I just went through all of your posts desperately trying to find that post!

Also, is the 3.0 OM603 crank the same as the 3.2 M104 crank? Being the same stroke has me curious about that one too.

"Brunettes are better." I knew you are a smart kid!
Regards, Eric

Ne'er fear, I had the numbers and lost them before I posted them. Lol. I'll dig all three back out and weigh them before the stroker goes off to be knife edged and nitrided. The more mass I can cut out of this motor the happier she'll be at high RPM. :D

To answer your question, I'm about 95% sure that the M104 crank (3.2) is the same crank as the OM603 3.0L crank.

You also still gonna post pics of the early vs. late M104 blocks?

Yeah. I get done with summer class the 13th, I've got a whole long list of **** to do to contribute to the M104 knowledge base.

BTW IF anyone wants to donate a C36 motor for the cause, I won't say no... ;)

OK, the 13th was a week ago. Where's that post?
Regards, Eric

Me too

I have the Volvo 960 with the 3.0 l twin cam I6 quicker then my BMW and handles ALMOST as well
The SDL for 'economy'
The Suburban for torque
Of course the torque of the 603 is great too... I love pulling away from ricers...

I must say as an owner of both a 300E and a e420.

The V8 is much more fun and I feel more passionate about it. The gentle rumble when started and the way it drives. I think the I6's are kinda heavy now the 200E's with the 4 cylinders feel much lighter and balanced.




Michael