Oh, BTW

We are located in Atlanta Georgia. I am a V8 person when it comes to performace. But for pure handling the 190's and the 12-valve 300E's are the best for handling "feel".(fondly remembering my 91 300E) For any car you plan to resell keeping near stock is a good idea. If you want a project hot-rod a 6-cyl with turbos and/or nitrous would be a helluva ride. I am buying a 92 500E for my daily driver but there seems to be plenty of interest in highly modified personal hot-rods. A 190 2.3-16 or 2.6, a 300E, or a C280 with a twin-turbo kit would theoretically have the peak power of a v-8 car with the nimble handling of a lightweight 4 or 6. Do any of you patrons have any personal experience racing or doing big time mods on these cars?

Just a thought....Lee

For three years in a row I won the ATL. REGION SCCA solo-2 class "E"-street prepared in my 280E. 2.8l "I6" powered car weighing 3650 lbs. Almost all of the other cars in this class were V8 CAMAROS & MUSTANGS. Goes to show that a old I6 can be competitive w/V8's

------------------
MERCEDES BENZ MASTER GUILD TECHNICIAN
ASE MASTER TECHNICIAN
27 YEARS M.B. TECH

whats best, V8 or I6?

__________________
ce 320 amg
widebody
tiwn turbo
Mutty 'der nail'
soon to be a six speed nail


"some mods improve your car and make it into something it never was, other mods, however, although essentially the same, are not, and make that car a ricer"

if your car isnt shiny, you dont know what you are talking about, remember; paint shine = knowledge. In order to be taken seriously, you should spend all your money on paint, (and get a dyno reading).
Dont forget to polish it often

I've been on forums since probably '01 and this is the largest margin of reviving a thread I've ever seen... over 11 years.

To answer your question, different strokes for different folks.

i for one never realize how old a thread might be, and have revived many old ones.

OT: if the cars we are considering are just road cars slightly preped for track use, i would favor the I-6 for it having more revs and prolly a shorter gearing.

If im not mistaken M.B.DOC's 123 280 should be able to rev to abt 6800+ and has atleast a 3.46Diff.

BTW DOC have u tried playin around with the camshafts' timing. you can order the modified sprocket pegs from merc and they are cheap.

this is an old post of mine:

I have a 1981 w123 M110 280CE and I would like to share some performance mods with u guys, case anyone feels like trying them.
A few years back when this was my daily driver I needed to increase the engine’s top end pull, the M110 is a powerful unit considering it small capacity of 2.8L and since my car had rear end ratio of 3.58 I was in real need of top end revs.
So I ordered the offset cam pins from the dealer, those pins come in 2deg, 4 deg, and 5 deg offsets and they connect the cam gears to the cam.
Usually they r used when work is done on the head to reset the timing chain to specs, but in my case purpose was to shift the power band.
First attempt: I advanced both intake and exhaust cams by 4 degs, and boy did I get low end torque ok I lost even more top end as now revs hardly moved beyond 5800, but the low end was tremendous
I mean and I am sure of this, that any one will be stunned by the torque from 1000 to 4500 rpm range, flooring it in 3rd mid corner gives one big drift. First became almost useless as most of was spin.
Unfortunately it turned out that the small autobox on the w123 can’t handle all that torque, I broke a gearbox every 10 days, I swear I went thru three boxes in one month. In the end I had to change the setup. After all even with new internals the gearbox wouldn’t last more than 10 days.
Attempt 2: I retarded both cams by 4 deg. Now I had zero low down, I mean below 3000 u need to shift into first to see any movement, by 4500 u feel some power but at 5500 it feels like a turbo has kicked in and the power keeps coming all the way to 7400 (my cut out). Fromm 5500 on the engine is so smooth and so powerful, u don’t get spin as its HP and not torque but when overtaking cars once u go past 5500 u would think cars have braked as u don’t feel the push but see ur self moving a lot faster than the cars around u.
I know most of u would think I am exaggerating, but tell me how many m110 w123s u know of that can keep revving all the way to 7300 in fourth and clocking 235km/h?????
I remember I once raced a w124 320 E from 150km/h on to max, we were equal from 150 to 170, then from there I pulled with ease all the way to my top speed of 230km/h.


in the end though, top end ended costing me lots of fuel as u always had to kick down to have the car moving, so i switched to a 2 degs retard setup, it was ok but not that gr8.
Also my engine had taken a beating with all that over reving from the original redline 6500 to my new 7400. oil consumption increased drastically in the end, and the fact that i ran the car with no filter during winter months didn’t help at all.

check this thread:
W123 280 ce m110 engine mods

__________________
Jay,
-----------------
-1995 Blue W202 C36 AMG (M) SOLD ;(
-1995 Black W140 S500 (Lady)
-1992 Black W124 E300 (Dima) (Ex-Mosselman
Twin turbo Kit).
-1988 Black W124 300 E 4-Matic.(Nadeen)
-1983 Brown W126 500SEL.(Old Lady)(Sold)
-1981 Gold W123 280CE.(Dareen)(Sold)
http://www.youtube.com/user/jayrasheed

i too have been on a few forums, and i have seen some old thread revivals, so i deliberatly revived this thread so i could be the daddy thread reviver ;-) makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.

btw, my vote is for the I6, shuv a turbo or two upp its chuff and kick those V8 asses.....

__________________
ce 320 amg
widebody
tiwn turbo
Mutty 'der nail'
soon to be a six speed nail


"some mods improve your car and make it into something it never was, other mods, however, although essentially the same, are not, and make that car a ricer"

if your car isnt shiny, you dont know what you are talking about, remember; paint shine = knowledge. In order to be taken seriously, you should spend all your money on paint, (and get a dyno reading).
Dont forget to polish it often

well...you could always - "shuv a turbo or two upp" a V8 chuff ....... wonder what would happen

__________________
190E 3.0-24v (M104 980) turbo @ 0.8 bar
1/4 mile: 2.483 / 13.540 / 175.17 km/h (street tires)

Too often do people forget that turbo's can be used on something with more than 6cyl.

__________________
1993 190E 2.6 Sportline

i know that some get religious over this argument, and i dont wanna fight with half of america over this...

a turbo can obviouslt fit on any engine, but a v8 in a 124 or 201 is a tight fit, a I6 has loads of room. this is why there are hundredes of I6 turbos poppin up, how many merc V8 turbos are there out there ? not many.

would be cool to do a twin rear mount turbo set up on a 500e or what ever, that would kick ass

__________________
ce 320 amg
widebody
tiwn turbo
Mutty 'der nail'
soon to be a six speed nail


"some mods improve your car and make it into something it never was, other mods, however, although essentially the same, are not, and make that car a ricer"

if your car isnt shiny, you dont know what you are talking about, remember; paint shine = knowledge. In order to be taken seriously, you should spend all your money on paint, (and get a dyno reading).
Dont forget to polish it often

You'd be surprised to know that in the modified auto scene in America the V8 is the minority. You'll find many more supporters of 4 and 6 cylinders. That being said the Mercedes V8 is by far a better choice if you can retrofit one. They are MUCH lighter than the m103 and m104 turbo candidates.

EDIT: I refer to the M113 as the m119 will not fit in a w201 without a major shoehorn.

__________________
1997 Mercedes E320 Turbo
Garrett T3/60-1 Turbocharger
Custom Water Intercooler Setup
352rwhp/366rwtq @ 8.6psi in '08

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/1051/log7smallay9.jpghttp://img66.imageshack.us/img66/740...s3smallox0.jpg

Inline power,thats why the Cummin's is king.

__________________
1999 w140, quit voting to old, and to old to fight, a god damned veteran

I love the M104, I think it's a great engine, and IMO a little lighter than a JZ or RB, which you'd be surprised how heavy those are. That said, there is now way an I6 has the power potential of a V8. The only reason they have the ability to come close is that they use big heavy iron blocks with relatively small displacements that allow them to run lots and lots of boost.

A 3.0L 2J weighs as much/more than an alloy headed SBC, and the chev has twice the displacement or more.


All that said, I love M104's and turboing them, but when someone tries to tell me that a small displacement I6 can out power a Big V8, they're either intentionally neglecting the fact that that same turbo can be used on a V8 and produce a much more linear power band, or they're idiots.

__________________
1993 190E 2.6 Sportline

I love the smoothness of inline 6's, but I also love the instant torque of the V8.

My solution? Have one of each. An inline six for when you want to rev it like crazy on a tight twisty mountain road. (amazing) Then have a V8 around for those long highway trips, so you can accelerate ferociously when you put your foot down, no matter what speed you're going.

Oh, and since this is a mercedes forum, have a diesel around for all other times.

__________________
Current cars:
2000 ML55 AMG, 174k miles
2003 C240 T-Modell, 202k miles
1995 S320, 207k Miles

There's something about the smoothness of the I6 that gets me. Of course displacement is a handicap vs. v8s, but IMO it is advantage to everyday driving due to the mileage and fuel consumption. I'd take a V8 over V6 almost any day, but I6 over V8 as well.

__________________
TC
Current stable:
- 2004 Mazda RALLYWANKEL
- 2007 Saturn sky redline
- 2004 Explorer...under surgery.

Past: 135i, GTI, 300E, 300SD, 300SD, Stealth

Get an M104 3.6 AMG engine, 220lbft @ 1500 going to 286lbft @ 3700-4500 and then back to 220lbft @ 6500. and it will rev to 7000RPM.

__________________
Jay,
-----------------
-1995 Blue W202 C36 AMG (M) SOLD ;(
-1995 Black W140 S500 (Lady)
-1992 Black W124 E300 (Dima) (Ex-Mosselman
Twin turbo Kit).
-1988 Black W124 300 E 4-Matic.(Nadeen)
-1983 Brown W126 500SEL.(Old Lady)(Sold)
-1981 Gold W123 280CE.(Dareen)(Sold)
http://www.youtube.com/user/jayrasheed