ooh i forgot about this thread. it sucks that these projects are going undocumented. if someone would post some sort of way to make up an m110 fuel rail id be all for a project once this becomes my weekend driver.

^^^ your saying low compression engines(US), are better for boost potential? 350 sounds a bit generous even for bhp
i want one so badly now

__________________

Any more progress to report???

__________________
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1968 W108 Mercedes Benz 250SE <- sold
1970 W108 Mercedes Benz 280S <- project underway
1974 W116 Mercedes Benz 450SE <- serviced and awesome!
1977 W116 Mercedes Benz 450SEL <- sold

1976 HX Holden Statesman Deville

http://www.hitechengineering.net/DNN/MegaSquirted450slc/tabid/54/Default.aspx

I megasquirted my 450slc. See the link above.

has anyone done this?

Nothing new on this eh? I realize it's an old thread - but has anyone made progress, done something, given up, etc?

Would like to see some news unless I find a way to do a motor and trans swap and related mods and still meet my budget for the GRM challenge then i will be supercharging my M110. I have a 2 Door 280 W114.

My plan will be to use an Eaton Supercharger and set it up in a blow through configuration with the carb or draw thru - yes either will work with the eaton.

In a draw thru would have to change the bearings out around ever year - because the gasoline would leak in. Of course magnacharger now makes Eatons with a different case that has a provision for a carb on top - and better seals around the bearings, etc. But no way that works in my budget, besides its easier to modify and exsisting case and changing the bearings once a year would be minor.

OF course a blow thru elimitates that - but requires pressuring the carb - sealing it or putting it in a box.

AS FOR EFI - I would likely starte with a junk yard TBI setup off a 4.3. The ECU is easy to program or have a chip made for and basically would be an easy swap for the Carb.

A Stock 4.3 TBI on a 4.3 can handle 4-5 PSI of boost before it starts to lean out.

OF course If I wanted a true low buck without making a chip I could bolt on the 4.3 and then use a FMU to boost fuel pressure or swap out the injectors for larger ones from a V8 TBI arrangement - lots of junkyard and low budget options.

Centrifugual SC has merrit as well. But I have several eatons...

I may start my own thread if I decide to do this instead of a motor swap for the GRM Challenge then toss the M110 and do a motor swap after the GRM Challenge.

Anything around 300hp at the wheels... would be interesting an certainly liven up the car.

I will start a thread on the GRM Challenge once I start making mods to the car - and am always open to advice about mods to make the car handle better, go faster, etc...

Hi Retrorodmerc,

Whats your budget?, wouldn't it be easier to do a drawthru turbo setup?

__________________
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1968 W108 Mercedes Benz 250SE <- sold
1970 W108 Mercedes Benz 280S <- project underway
1974 W116 Mercedes Benz 450SE <- serviced and awesome!
1977 W116 Mercedes Benz 450SEL <- sold

1976 HX Holden Statesman Deville

Well For the Grassroots Motorsports Challenge its 2009.00 total. I detailed some of my budget in my thread:

New to the board have a 280 W114 Coupe... Need Help with Engine Swaps

Turbo - I have some turbos in the garage - could do a turbo, I talk about that in the tread - I have several Early Buick 3.8 Turbo setups, so I could fab up the pipes and set up a single or even twins. I have to allow fair market value for the turbo(s) and related work.

I have the superchargers as well --- Boost is my thing --- I have and will boost about anything. Between that and Propane conversions and/or my own Nitrous+Propane (wet Nitrous setup) on gasoline or Propane motors... well I do a lot of my own thing - and firmly believe in a anything but stock -- RAT RODS all the way.

So lets say that I basically have about 1600 to work with, and that has to cover tires, suspension and anything else that needs addressed including a tune up on the motor.

Supercharger seems easier to me, I don't have to tap the pan or worry about oil return. Supercharger is self contained and of all the superchargers I currently have I already ported for better flow and efficiency.

I also don't know how well the M110 would respond to the added back pressure of a turbo with out doing something with the exhaust cam. Then their is the issue of heat with a turbo - can't intercool a draw thru setup - gasoline would pool in the intercooler.

You can intercool a blow thru, applies to both a supercharger or turbo.

Of course I will have to find a way to mount it up without giving anything up like AC.

I am open to suggestions --- if you have a particular idea or design you want to share.

So far from my calculations the Eaton seems the way to go, if I treat the ones I have cost wise like I bought them on Ebay or something, then I only have to allow a value of around 150 for an Eaton M90 - plus I dont have to plumb a bunch of extra junk and if I didn't want to use exhaust or stainless pipe from the SC to the Carb I could use PVC Schedule 40 pipe from Home Depot, paint it black and use some nylon hose with clamps and call it a day - after all that stuff can handle well about any amount of PSI I would be pushing. In short their are a lot of easy outs, same thing with the turbo - of course PVC only works for blow thru configuration - cant run gasoline thu it - great for mock ups, before welding up anything solid, or for a low buck approach.

With a turbo - I might get away with 150 - 200 fair market cost then toss in the cost a turbo rebuild, then exhaust work, oil lines, etc...

What about getting an early efi m110 setup... or in your case, just the head and parts attached to it, then get a custom computer, like a megasquirt (low cost, with all the features of the big buck computers) www.msefi.com. This is what Im doing to my 1968 w108 280s. Also putting a supra 5 speed in while im at it... getting bigger injectors is fairly cheap, just ebay some nissan gtr injectors, i got a set of 6 for $AU100. this will eliminate some of the carby lag you get with drawthru setups...

__________________
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1968 W108 Mercedes Benz 250SE <- sold
1970 W108 Mercedes Benz 280S <- project underway
1974 W116 Mercedes Benz 450SE <- serviced and awesome!
1977 W116 Mercedes Benz 450SEL <- sold

1976 HX Holden Statesman Deville

Yea the EFI especially Megasquirt would be an option I played with a few setups when they first came out and have followed the developments, wouldn't be to bad.

I think I would prefer TBI initially - cheaper to setup, but frankly - I could also do a GM setup for about the same - using something like the Gm '7749.

Same ECU used on a variety of GM products - used in typhoon syclone turbo sunbird, and even non-turbo setups, -- can junk yard source that as well - and build a system with as much to offer as the Megasquirt and then some for about the same money or less depending on prices. Same kind of programming software you use with the megasquirt, similar components, injectors, manifold pressure switches, etc.

I think I would do the GM again I have done a few of those in the past and prefer it over the MS setup, plus the gm is ready made, can buy parts at any dealership or junkyard... IF I go EFI.

It's a good suggestion -converting to EFI - But doesn't fit the budget for now. Rather have the money to spend on other mods to the car.

Besides by the time I got around to doing the EFI conversion - I would likely prefer to just toss the M110 and install a different motor and trans.

I want to keep it simple and under budget. EFI would complicate things and be a waste in so far as the M110 goes - as I still think for power in the long term a Motor Swap is the best solution.

All this aside I guess no one made any progress on installing a supercharger on a M110? I have seen some turbo information, but nothing on a supercharger setup?

guys y bother with all this trouble??? at best you will be reaching abt 290 hp before stressing the M110 out. so just adabt a WR from a turbo CIS car, porsche or audi or volvo and things should be fine.

__________________
Jay,
-----------------
-1995 Blue W202 C36 AMG (M) SOLD ;(
-1995 Black W140 S500 (Lady)
-1992 Black W124 E300 (Dima) (Ex-Mosselman
Twin turbo Kit).
-1988 Black W124 300 E 4-Matic.(Nadeen)
-1983 Brown W126 500SEL.(Old Lady)(Sold)
-1981 Gold W123 280CE.(Dareen)(Sold)
http://www.youtube.com/user/jayrasheed

Well like I said I can do a supercharger with the Carb' or another carb in either draw thru or blow thru - EFI/TBI etc... are extra optional considerations.

They are far from being a requirement.

What I started posting to this thread about was to find out if anyone had done the supercharger or made progress, I read through the M104 Thread and can see what was done their - same kind of thing I would if I was going EFI.

See I might seriously do a LPG (propane) conversion - with the supercharger. That would give me a minimum of 110 octane (110-120) along with the carb/ So I would have a dual fuel vehicle. I could even setup up an a type of waste gate to actually reduce the max boost when on gasoline and allow more when on propane...

My cost to convert to LPG on a carb setup is about 350.00 thats mixer, regulator, hoses and Fork Lift Size tank.

But regardless of the fuel - Setting up the Supercharger will be a simple matter of mounts and Belt arrangement and I have a way to simplify that.

Anyway - thats all easy stuff. I wanted to find out what someone else has done. If anyone else has done something with the M110.

I really would love to know more about how well the M110 handles boost in stock trim....

Hi

I am currently overhauling an M110 cylinder head that did 100 000 km on LPG pulling a trailer. The LPG makes the engine run very hot and the valves seats are now toast (receeded valves) ! If you want high octane use ethanol to run cooler!

Applicable to supercharging is the port job I have done : open up the exhaust side slightly and polish it. Smooth off the ridges just under all the valve seats going into the port. The stock intake ports are small to maintain high charge velocity and provide good torque at the bottom end so making them much larger is not a good idea for a NA engine and probably not either for a blown engine.

Who says you need an intercooler ?

Intercoolers are needed for turbos (heat transfer from exhaust side). If you run 10psi or less of boost you dont need intercooling.

Stock cams provide no overlap which is great for kompressor engines.


Are you looking into an Eaton M45 per chance ? It looks like the right ticket for this engine.

The downside to all this is that at 10 psi you cant expect much more than 230-240 hp

Good luck and keep posting

Denis

Lion sur Mer
France

K so the stock cams offer no overlap, you can easily adjust this since its a dohc, any way, In NA form how would the no overlap work out to??? ie more top end or more torque???

i have this engine ina 280CE and i retarded both cams 4 degrs each which resulted in gr8 topend power above 5000RPMs but no low down what so ever, whats your say on that.

and with 10 psi i would expect more than 240 hp but i wmight be very wrong, my m103 300 w124 has abt 10 psi boost and it is well over the 240 hp mark and i can even claim its a tad over 300 hp. but thats a diff engine.

__________________
Jay,
-----------------
-1995 Blue W202 C36 AMG (M) SOLD ;(
-1995 Black W140 S500 (Lady)
-1992 Black W124 E300 (Dima) (Ex-Mosselman
Twin turbo Kit).
-1988 Black W124 300 E 4-Matic.(Nadeen)
-1983 Brown W126 500SEL.(Old Lady)(Sold)
-1981 Gold W123 280CE.(Dareen)(Sold)
http://www.youtube.com/user/jayrasheed

Hi,

I think that the factory wanted a torquey engine to move heavy cars. The cams are moderate lift and short duration, so short in fact that the "overlap" period, useful for high rpm power is absent.

In a blown engine, you want this to avoid the boost from moving part of the charge right out the exhaust . Estimating best power is fairly easy. Multiply the NA power by a factor that includes boost. One bar doubles power, one half provides 50% more, etc. This is theoretical so unless you do a great job you will get less...

A NA M110 with low compression US pistons and some prep might make 140 DIN hp; at 10 psi that makes about 140x1.68 or 235 DIN hp or whatever bigger US "bull****" horsepower say 250 ?

However, this also shows that a small change in boost close to one bar makes a real power change.

Another point on the head is that it has very limited water passages and cools by its mass (ā la motorcycle). The side effect is that glorious roar

Now if you build a real race engine with studs instead of bolts, polished, deburred head, etc, I think that running 1.5 bar with a good stock bottm end is possible with an aftermarket FI.

Cheers

Denis

Lion sur Mer
France

well what i know is that the head isn't well cooled, so i heard, that the head is noisy cause it hasn't got that many water runers as say in m103.

mind u i can be wrong. i have a 1981 280CE EURO spec, and the pistons on this one are scary, but us spec has flat pistos and if that one has the same head it should be able to take some boost, as the chamber in the head is deep.

__________________
Jay,
-----------------
-1995 Blue W202 C36 AMG (M) SOLD ;(
-1995 Black W140 S500 (Lady)
-1992 Black W124 E300 (Dima) (Ex-Mosselman
Twin turbo Kit).
-1988 Black W124 300 E 4-Matic.(Nadeen)
-1983 Brown W126 500SEL.(Old Lady)(Sold)
-1981 Gold W123 280CE.(Dareen)(Sold)
http://www.youtube.com/user/jayrasheed