Which engine for m113 SL Pagode 1969? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

bigstar · #1 06-10-2006, 05:25 AM

Hello everyone,

I would like to know which engine would you recommend to put in an 1969 280SL Pagode. I'm thinking about some recent engine, year 2000 and above but i'm not able to choose the right one.

Which one would you recommend?

Regards!

Jim B. · #2 06-10-2006, 05:39 AM

Which ones would fit?

Wiring harness issues, what is the reason for swapping the engine, it's usually not cheap, and devalues the caqr too - if that matters.

Why you want to do it, is the 113 too slow, or engine blew up on it?

POS · #3 06-10-2006, 09:16 AM

Since those cars are worth roughly $20k, I'd either have the original engine rebuilt or I'd buy a short/long block and put it in.

Want to sell it?

bigstar · #4 06-10-2006, 06:31 PM

The engine is too old. I want to replace it in order to get a better performance, be able to install an A/C, automatic transmission...

I need to know which engine would best fit? Which one is the most compatible with the car?

The point is to install the most appropriate recent engine for the car, and try to find it on the market

Your advices would be extreeeemly appreciated!

ericdee · #5 06-10-2006, 07:08 PM

If your going that route, I'd just go with a Grand National motor: 3.8L V6 Turbo 245 bhp @ 4400 rpm, 355 ft-lb @ 2000 rpm.

Roncallo · #6 06-10-2006, 10:20 PM

The sky is the limit. I have seen an M100 6.3 installed in that car. Very cool but a significant amount of work. If your goal is a new technology engin with good fuel efficiency, durability, power and economical to maintain and moving away from an MB platform is an option, I would recomend a Toyota or Honda V6.

If staying with an MB engine is a requirement any of the V6's will work quite niceley. If power is your main concern then take something from a wrecked E55.

Now a word of caution. currently I am preparing to put an M120 V12 into an 86 560SL. What I consider to be the most challenging part of this job is getting this engine to work independently of the wrecked doner SL600 it came out of. For example I will have to fake the two computers into thinking that I have traction control installed and operating or at least turned off. I dont know if this is difficult or easy yet. I also dont know what other data comes over the CAN buss and may piss off the engine. My plan is to get this engine running on a stand prior to trying the install.

In any case the cheapest way to get a running engine with all its accesories and everything you need to make it operate (including the things you dont know you need), is to buy a wrecked car with a running engine.

John Roncallo

bigstar · #7 06-12-2006, 04:49 PM

Dear John,

The point is to put a recent relialbe engine that would allow me to install an A/C system with an automatic transmission.

Which one do you advice me to put? Which one would easily fit under the hood? is there enought space for it? is there any modifications to be made on the chassis? any trick to know?

Yes, I totally agree with you that I should swap it with an engine that does not any sofisticated software or is computer controlled.

I heard that some made this modifications by using a 280 V6 engine from a '00 C-class. What do you think about that ?

Which engine do you personnally advice me to install? The most reliable and easy one to install?

Thanks 4 ur help!

bigstar · #8 06-12-2006, 05:05 PM

Dear John,

The point is to put a recent relialbe engine that would allow me to install an A/C system with an automatic transmission.

Which one do you advice me to put? Which one would easily fit under the hood? is there enought space for it? is there any modifications to be made on the chassis? any trick to know?

Yes, I totally agree with you that I should swap it with an engine that does not any sofisticated software or is computer controlled.

I heard that some made this modifications by using a 280 V6 engine from a '00 C-class. What do you think about that ?

Which engine do you personnally advice me to install? The most reliable and easy one to install?

Thanks 4 ur help!

Roncallo · #9 06-12-2006, 09:27 PM

Each engine swap is a unique challenge. To pick an engine that will satisfy your needs is difficult. To start with, you have to ask yourself what do you want to get out of the vehical. So lets break that up into several classes.

Start with 3 classes of swaps that will use an MB engine

1) Maintain an all MB vehical
2) Maintain an all MB vehical with better updated performance
3) Maintain an all MB vehical with better performance as well as period corrct.

Then go to, I dont care about an MB engine, I want a more cost effective solution

4) Get better fuel economy and more power with a same weight engine package
5) Get alot of power in a cost effective package
6) Total road supreamacy

#1 and #4 are about the same with the difference being the cost of staying with an MB engine.

#2 and #6 you could say are also the same since MB makes about the most powerful engines out of the box. But a Chevy V8 can be built to have more power at an extreamly cost effective price.

#3 is unique and this is what the person did with the M100 engine installed into a 113 chassie. This option will probably maintain the most value in the car as a modified vehical

#5 is the solution that will get you a cost effective installation with significantly more power.

So without doing any research. And having limited knowledge off engines available, I can give you some starting points

Option #1 Install an MB C280 v6 engine
Option #2 Install any of the late MB performance engines
Option #3 Install an M100 V8

Option #4 Install a V6 engine from any of the Japenese cars (Cheepest most cost effective solution available and significant increase in performance)
Option #5 Install a Chevy V8 or Cadilack Northstar
Option #6 Install a MB SL 600 engine

When choosing options other than 1 or 2 you may have to consider strenthening chassis and rear ends, adding significant cost to the project. In general keeping the HP within 50% increase you OK.

John Roncallo

Strife · #10 06-12-2006, 10:56 PM

IMO, a 113 is just too nice and rare a platform, but that's just my opinion - to each his own. I will say, that a modern V6 swap with a better, lock-up 4 or 5 speed tranny that could deliver 20+MPG around town on regular gas would be pretty attractive on a 75-79 450SL. These aren't rare and there's a lot of room for improvement.

Richard Wooldridge · #11 06-13-2006, 01:14 AM

Hi there,
I installed a GM 4.3 liter V6 and T700R4 auto transmission in my 1982 300D, and the results have been very gratifying. It gives around 28 mpg on the freeway at 75 -85 mph with 4 people in the car and the AC on full blast, and around 20mpg in town. The engine is very quiet, as it's turning nice and slow with the overdrive and lockup torque converter the trans. has. The engine is a 1991 with throttle body, which is easy to install as the ECM wiring harness is separate from the rest of the car, pretty much. The engine is significantly lighter than the 5 cyl. diesel, I had to shorten the front springs an inch or so to lower the front off the stops. The car has much better performance, and I'm not afraid to take it on long trips, I've had it to Canada a couple times, also from Washington to Montana and back, etc... I did the conversion a few years ago, and have put over 30K on it now, no problems at all.
The only part I would worry about on your car is killing the resale value. If it is original it's worth a lot more than it would be with any other engine, MB or other.
One thing to think about is the tunnel width - on my conversion it was necessary to widen the tunnel 2" for clearance on the transmission. I think there are other auto trans that are much narrower, the T200R4 for instance.
It took me almost two months of evenings and weekends to get my installation completed to my satisfaction, but it does look factory.
You can check out my site for information.
http://www.freewebs.com/rwooldridge/mercedes.htm
By the way, my entire conversion cost around $900 - the transmission and fuel pump were the most expensive parts.

deanyel · #12 06-13-2006, 02:07 AM

A Ford 260 V8 is supposed to be just about a perfect fit and wouldn't be expensive. You don't want a new computerized engine, like the 2000 model mentioned. You want a new (or rebuilt) old engine.

t walgamuth · #13 06-13-2006, 08:44 PM

unless your 230 is pretty rough, you will destroy the value of it unless you do a very sanitary job.

some would ask why you need ac in a convertible.

but i would prob go with something very similar to the original but with ac capability. and then go with an ac setup as offered from benz in a sl chassis of the same type as you have.

probably most cost effective thing is to sell your car and buy one with air. but that wouldnt be as much fun.

good luck

tom w

bigstar · #14 06-14-2006, 01:47 PM

John,Thanks for the small argumentation that you made!

I guess I will stick to option #1 or #2 because for legislation and registration purpouses (when doing the yearly check at the ministry of transportation) the new engine must have the same specs as the old one meaning that it has to be a V6 and a MB. So the C280 V6 would be great. I just need to know the operations' details.

Honestly, I am not planning to sell the car at all. All I want is to be able to enjoy it and be able to drive it without facing any problem.

The thing is to find now the most appropriate engine.

I wish I could find some explanation or someone that has already done this operation. I'm sure some one did it and it's on the web but i can't find it!

Richard,
You did a really good job! I love the explanation that you published on your website! Hopefully, I will find one about the SL with your help guys!!

Roncallo · #15 06-14-2006, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigstar

John,Thanks for the small argumentation that you made!

I guess I will stick to option #1 or #2 because for legislation and registration purpouses (when doing the yearly check at the ministry of transportation) the new engine must have the same specs as the old one meaning that it has to be a V6 and a MB. So the C280 V6 would be great. I just need to know the operations' details.

But the 113 has a straight 6 not a V6.

John Roncallo