Does the 380SL start in 2nd or 1st, help please ???

I have been looking at the berg werks site and they have an electronic module that enables your car to start in 1st instead of 2nd. I am not sure if the 1983, 380SL started in 1st or second...

Anybody know, please reply...

[Richard1]

I don't know about your model but in the 560 SL, you move the shifter down to "B" and then back to drive before starting out in order to get to 1st.

The Road & Track roadtest published in 1982 says, "The new automatic transmission . . . a 4-speed . . . . Always starting in 1st gear . . . " I'm not sure exactly when the switchover happened for US-delivery cars, but my GUESS is that the 4-speed came with the aluminum block when the displacement went from 4.5 to 3.8 in 1981.

The shifter gates (see http://www.carcentric.com/MBshiftergates.htm for a comparison) on 560SL's have a "B" detent to the right of "2" to engage 1st gear manually. The '81 380SL shown on that page has the above-panel shifter gate carried over from the 450SL's so it has no "B" position. Whether "L" (assuming your '82's shift gate is like the '81's) locks you in 1st or 2nd should be obvious if you try it.

On a related note, "L" is for "Low" but "S" stands for "Slope" (not "Second") - "S" locks a 3-speed AT into 2nd; I don't know whether it locks a 4-speed AT into 2nd or 3rd (again, my GUESS would be 3rd).

More than you wanted to know?

[Richard1]

Doc, how are you doing with your car? Did you get the exhaust system in yet?

[The Black Guy]

M D Nugent,

I must disagree. On my 83 380m SL, I do have a "B" to the right of 2. When the change over occurred, I do not know.

Does your '83 have a recessed shifter gate like the 560SL shown on the page I linked to above?

If it's not (i.e., if it's something unique to late 380SL's), I'd sure like a picture to add to the page.

MY 380SL, '83 HAS THE B NEXT TO THE 2 SO I GUESS IT STARTS IN 2ND... RIGHT? EITHER WAY THIS IS WHAT I MENTIONED FROM BERG WERKS... SHOULD I DO IT FOR ONLY $299.. I IMAGINE PICKUP WILL BE BETTER... YOUR OPINIONS PLEASE....

FIRST GEAR START IS NOW AVAILABLE!!!!!!

BergWerks is proud to offer the most cost effective solution for enhancing the performance character of many Mercedes cars. The BergWerk's 1st Gear Start Control Module is a proprietary computer module that "fixes" Mercedes Benz's decision to force many models to start in 2nd gear instead of 1st gear. The 1st Gear Start Control Module also offers the following options:



http://bergwerks.com/control_module.jsp

Does it start in 1st or 2nd....??

Hudson66 -

That's a new one for me - thanks for the picture.

It's the same setup that the 560SL has (except that the gate is above the console instead of being recessed). From the appearance, it looks like you have 1st only in the "B" position (or when you stomp the accelerator to the floor from a stop).

Instead of asking us, though, why not just count the number of gears you have in "D" and then count the number of gears when you start in "B" then go to "2" then to "3" then to "D"? My GUESS is that you'd have three gears in the first instance and four in the second instance, but you have the car - you tell us.

The Berg Module won't change your performance beyond what you get with the "B" position. It just puts the transmission "automatically" in the same gear the "B" position uses every time you come to a stop (or at the speed you select).

It's curious that Berg doesn't list the 380SL in its list of applications. I'd email them before ordering to make sure there wasn't some reason they left it off the list.

[cbdo]

To the best of my knowledge, the 4-speed automatic introduced with the 380SL in '81 always started in 1st, and that didn't change through the end of the 560SL. I find no mention in earlier 450SL tests of the 3-speed starting in anything other than 1st, and it would seem strange to set up a 3-speed for a second-gear start; I don't think MB ever did so. I do note that the Road & Track test photo of the original 380SL doesn't show the "B" slot to the right at the aft end of the shift pattern, but their 1984 test photo does. That position simply locks out all gears above 1st for engine braking, and I believe it's a refinement to the shift gate rather than a change in normal shift patterns for the tranny.

The MB tranny that I know started in 2nd under normal conditions was the earlier 4-speed used in the Pagodas and other cars of the '60s into the very early '70's. First in that tranny was a real stump-puller, as I remember from my folks' 280SEL. If you ran the gears manually, you'd find a moderate 3000-RPM shift out of first would happen at 12.5 MPH, as the max-throttle 6000-RPM shift was at 25. It also had internal brake bands intended to eliminate creep when at rest (though they also slow off-the-mark response just a bit); recently driving a friend's Pagoda, I was reminded that these cars stay put when at rest in "drive" on the level. To the best of my knowledge, that transmission was never used in the 107, as the newer four-speed would have been used for Euro cars including the 2.8 six of the 107-bodied 280SL.

On their website (http://www.bergwerks.com/control_module.jsp):
"If you have one of the cars listed in the application guide below, your car currently starts in 2nd gear. Your only current options to engage first gear are to press the accelerator to the floor to activate a kick down switch or manually shift the gear selector to the "B" position. . . .
Series Year Model
R107 ’86 – ‘89 U.S. 560 SL / Euro 500SL
W124 ’92 - ‘94 500E / E500
W126 ’86 – ‘91 420/500/560 SE/SEL/SEC
W129 ’90 – ‘95 500SL / SL500
W140 ’92 – ‘95 500/600 SEL/ S500/ S600
’93 – ‘95 500/600 SEC / S500/S600 Coupes"

The 380SL's aren't listed - I don't know why. Could be they started in 1st with the selector in "D," or could be that BergWerks just forgot to include them, or could be that they start in 2nd but the BergWerks module won't work with that particular version of the transmission.

CBDO -
Both the 107 3-spd AT and 4-spd AT had torque converters (new for MB in 1971 as I understand it). MB AT's before the 107 had "fluid couplers" that are different, but I don't know in what way. I agree with your comments about the 450SL AT, FWIW.

[cbdo]

An interesting topic to research--keeps getting less clear. My primary reference is the Brooklands "Gold Portfolio" on the 107, which is simply a compendium of the published tests in the English-speaking magazines through the 107 run.

The 380SL is clearly identified by multiple sources as starting in 1st. I can't find any clear statement on the 560SL; it's simply not mentioned. The Euro 500SL is described by two sources as having the tranny set to start in 2nd with 1st being accessed only by the shifter or the kickdown switch on the accelerator, for reasons having to do with the very high torque of the engine and the numerically high ratio of the gear, which combined to make wheelspin a bit hard to control in MB's opinion. According to the 500SL test in "Motor Sport" in 1981, "First gear only operates with the kick-down switch open, and is only really wanted for leaving black marks on the road, or for towing heavy trailers up the Alps." Apparently my 560SL must be set up the same way, although truth to tell I've never noticed when driving it!

Re the linking technology: A fluid coupling is set up for minimal energy loss and minimal slippage; it's intended to approximate a mechanical 1:1 linkage that can let go when the car's stopped. MB felt it the appropriate technology in the 60's, when their goal was minimal power loss and a transmission that, in R&T's words, "could beat the fastest hand" at shifting. The torque converter is standard US technology as far back as the 50's; it's set up to provide greater amplification of power the more the difference in speed between the input and output shafts. That characteristic is partly what leads to the technique of holding the car stopped against a speeded-up engine to get the fastest start off the line, as well as the way the engine RPM will speed up faster than vehicle speed does; quite simply, it slips more, wastes more energy, but adds to the mechanical advantage offered the engine. Newer trannies (since the energy crunch of the '70's-80's) often have an added system to lock the torque converter at 1:1 once at cruising speed. It increases efficiency but can lead to that annoying pseudo-shift on even slight grades or accelerations at speed, and it's not part of the MB automatics at least through the 107 cars.

My 76 280 SL starts in second unless I realy get on it from the start, then it start in low. otherwise I just shift it into low then it starts in low and shifts to second and stays there until I move shifter to drive. Then it shifs to 3 rd and 4 th.
Boyd

Looks from this (and Hudson66's picture in a previous post) like '82 was the last year there was no "B" and '83 was the first year with the "B":


The eBay auction, FWIW, is at:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2404384479&category=33695
If the Seller isn't accurate about the year, though, . . .

Also, thanks to cbdo for the explanation of fluid coupler versus torque converter technologies.

My mechanic tells me that on AT's used in '72-89 SL's the PRNDSL (or PRND32) positions on the shifter control the transmission by a mechanical link between the shift lever and transmission.

By contrast, the "B" position only controls the transmission via an electrical switch (i.e., moving the gear lever from "L" to "B" does not change the position of the mechanical linkage at the transmission end).

Does anybody disagree with that info?

And are we still pretty sure the '81-82 380SL's had 4spd AT's?

If so, I'm beginning to think the sequence goes like this:
- '72 350SL : 3spd AT : PRNDSL : starts in 1st
- '73-80 450SL : 3spd AT : PRNDSL : starts in 1st
- '81-82 380SL : 4spd AT : PRNDSL : starts in 1st
- '83-85 380SL : 4spd AT : PRND32 : starts in 2nd, has "B" position
- '86-89 560SL : 4spd AT : PRND32 : starts in 2nd, has "B" position and recessed shifter gate.

Additions, corrections?