A grand every few months? Hmm. Well...maybe I can find a nice Camaro for sale...

When baby needs a new pair of shoes, baby's goin get em.

Hi guys. I just picked up the car from the dealer. Apparently the fluttering is coming from the transmission. Some part in it is futtering, a clutch or something. They say it needs to be rebuilt at a cost of 5600.00. I will check around at smaller shops to see what they can do. Its very intermittent. Do you think I should try to sell the car as is? If so how will this affect the selling price? Thanks for any help.

I figured when you said in your first posts the car jumps up and down, that your transmission lied at the root of your problem. On a healthy SL, when you shift the car into gear you feel the car "crouch" when it first goes into gear. It was jumping up and down because it was shifting in and out of gear at idle, crouch, uncrouch. Bottom line is a someone sold you a car with a bad transmission. They probably poured a can of transmission fixit goo into the works long enough for the car to get sold. Whether it was an SL or XX, it's one of the oldest scumbag used car dealer tricks in the book. In defense of the SL line, this happens all then time to people, whether its and SL or an Pinto, its just a plain old fashion rip off. You, in a nutshell, got took. Call a lawyer. There may be lemon laws in your state.

Hi Kirk, the transmission actually has no leaks, and has never used a drop of fluid. I check it often. What do you think about selling it like this? It drives fine. The problem is very intermittent

I know you guys suggested the guy earlier in the thread that was a good MB mechanic, but are there other places that can do the trans rebuild any cheaper? I contacted Aamco and they said between 2500 and 4500 depending on the the model

Lynn:

Sell the car - don't put another penny into it. Just sell it and be done with it.

Save the $$$'s on the transmission by dropping the price by a grand and get it off your driveway.

Best of luck, Ryan

First, bad news: A 380 SL with a noticably bad transmission in otherwise good condition is worth about $6500. There really isn't any degree of transmission problems, any problem with the tranny is an indication of future transmission failure. Now, good news: Anyone in the car business will tell you there are more stupid people in the world than smart ones, and they buy cars every day. It's a crap shoot. If your honest about the car, smart people will offer you around $6500 or less. Stupid people are like a Royal Flush, there may be someone lurking in the cards dumb enough to pay more than it's worth, but geting dealt the hand is pure chance.

The secret of selling a car like this is to not say whats wrong with it. If they ask, be honest about it. If they don't ask, don't tell them. It is the core secret of used-car salesmanship.

Kirk
83 280 SL
84 Porsche 944
Recovering xUsed Car Salesman 1975-1984

Also, don't forget the can of transmission fixit goo. And turn up the radio when they test drive it.

One other thing, to fix it cheap and sell it, call foriegn car junkyards in your area - look for ones that mention MB's in their yellow page ad, and see if they can recommend a mechanic who will put a used tranny in it. You might get away with doing it for around fifteen hundred. Personally, I have a rule grandma taught me: Don't throw good money after bad. Cut your losses. Sell it and never buy a car more than three years old ever again.

What does "transmission fix it goo do? and does it ruin the transmission further? Does it stop the noise and make it shift better? If you guys think this is a good idea, what is the name of this product?

Lynn, I cannot beleive you are asking if we think you should put more money into it!!! I suggested a month ago that you should "just sell the damn thing!" If you are intent on spending money on an older SL, send me a check for $5000, I can get a new tranny for mine!!!! DO NOT PUT ANY MORE MONEY INTO IT!!! You will NEVER get it back in the selling price of the car. Best of luck BOB

I think you guys are right. I am approaching this from the wrong angle. I keep trying to have the car in perfect running condition to sell it, because if I were buying it, thats how it would have to be before I would make the purchase. I don't know what the former owner did. but it was like a dream when I got it. I guess I just have to realize that its not worth putting in extra money just to get a little higher price. It just hard to beleive someone would buy a car like this that has problems. But I guess to a "tinkerer" this would be a goldmine. ANd guys, I am doing everything I can think of to sell it, including driving around with that stupid for sale sign. lol

It makes the transmission seem ok for few days. Any auto parts store will fix you up with it. Typical:

http://www.xkms.org/AutoBarn.com-33/Lucas-Transmission-Fix-with-ATF-Conditioner-(24-oz.).htm

That link didn't work real good - type Lucas Transmission Fix in google, you'll get back a bunch of links. Pour that crap in it, then get rid of the car.

Warning SL lovers!!! Do not buy a 380SL in the D.C. area that has a "too good to be true" price ! :)

Good luck on selling it but not to anybody on this forum.

Now Boudreax, I have been more than forthcoming. You are probably seeing more accurate history on this car than any other car that is for sale. Again the car is running great, even with this problem. I have replaced most of the rest of the car, and the body and interior are perfect. I would be more than comfortable selling it to someone on this forum who knows that with a little transmission work, this will be a great car. You guys know, if anything else is wrong with it, Ill be the first one on here to post it

Im going to pick up some of this Lucas Transmission fix and see if it helps. The guy who posted said its only good for a couple of days, but the guy at the auto parts store told me the results are immediate and will last until the next transmission oil change. Can anyone clarify? Thanks

You really never know how it's going to work. It's your only alternative to replacing the tranny that might work long enough for you to sell the car. It's probably what the guy who sold you the car did.

Lynn, I understand your angst about selling a non-perfect car, but any pre-owned car is a used car, no matter the make or model. When I bought my SL, I had an idea of what I would spend on the car and what I would keep aside for repairs, top, or other incidentals. I was not looking for a show car that I would be afraid to drive, but I wanted a solid car that looked good as well. I looked for several months before I found this one and drove over 100 miles to see it. Hopefully, you will find someone who is as diligent as I was. That person will know that the car is 20+ years old and, as stated before on this thread, will have 20+ year old problems. You may take a hit on what you've already put into the car to get it in its present shape when you sell it, so why would you put more $ in it and take an even bigger hit? I hope you have lots of luck selling it. I have actually recommended your car to a friend of mine who wants to buy one for his wife, but he just moved and doesn't think any major purchases are a good idea right now. Good luck. BOB

I will certainly take all of this into consideration. Here's what I have the problem with. Selling it at 10k Im already losing 7k. If I have to go down to 6500.00, Im losing over 10,000.00 on this investment. I may have to swallow my pride, fix whats broken and keep it. Otherwise , its a lot of money needlessly wasted. My biggest fear is I fix this, then next week its an axel, then a month later a head gasket. You know what I mean. I just get the feeling it never stops with these cars. Did the prior owner do any maintenance or repair on this car?

Your problem might be that you think of this car as an investment. It is a depreciating asset.

Some Mercedes are collector's items, but W107 SL's are not. There were simply too many produced for these to ever appreciate in value.

They seem to be collectable. At 23 years of age mint ones are going for as high as 19,000.00. I do consider a 23 year old car valued at at least 10,000.00 an investment. Maybe thats just me

Tell me that about model Ts, As and 57 Chevy's

Frank Barrett, in his book "The Illustrated Buyer's Guide to Mercedes Benz" gives all W107 SL's 3 stars for collectability (out of 5). W124 coupes and sedans are also given 3 stars.

He does estimate that the earliest 107's, the 1972 350 SL in particular, as the best collector car because it has the smaller Euro bumpers.

In order of desirability his ranking is:

1. 1972-1974 450 SL
2. 560 SL
3. all other 450 SL's
4. 380 SL

You go Suginame, tell it like it is lol. Oh and by the way, how does one become a tinkerer? You know maybe I should take an auto repair course so I can learn to do all of these repairs for next to nothing. If you take one of these courses, do you get to work on your own car?

You know , you guys on the forum who are actually mechanics could make a small fortune on this forum. Stupid guys like me who would love to do the repairs themselves but dont know how would be perfect students. You could just show us what to do, and let us do the work. Ive always been amazed by motors and machinery.

suginami -
I read the guys book. It did a good job of keeping me away from 380's, which he really trashed. I don't agree with him on the 450's, as they have really high production numbers and really ugly bumpers. If I could bet on it, I personally would rank the 560 as the one most likely to appreciate in value simply because they continue to hold their value at a very appreciable level and because wealthy people love to buy what was the very best of a bygone age, and in 10 years that will be the 560SL. I have read another investment guide, I will try to get the name of it for you, that ranked the 500 SL as the best long term investment as it was the only one that was designed and built as a true European sports car in the tradition of Maserti, Aston Martin and Ferrari, and that it's performance and technicalogical level make it the best sports car example of Mercede's engineering level during that particular era. That really is what really wealthy, true collectors look for in a car they want to collect. As a result, I keep an eye out for that model. I also found out that a number of the early 450s were shipped here with the 500 engine, and very few of the people who own them are even aware of it, and the limited numbers on these may make them very collectable in the future.

Personally, I think its like the stock market, its a crap shoot that is heavily influenced by trends and tastes. For example, I owned a pristine 1957 Buick Special Deluxe. It was a beautiful car, with a tri-split back window, two tone paint and power options, but even though it was originally a top of the line car, as a collector piece it was an also-ran to the Chevy's. I sold it for $3200 in 1984. 10 years later, Jay Leno starts driving one, and his car collection, which is shown all over TV, cannot hide that massive chrome grill every time they pan the camera on his cars. Next thing you know, everybody in Southern California wants one. The same car would probably bring me 25,000 today. Convertibles are bringing double that. Who knows, 20 years from now, Mary Kate and Ashely will be driving twin Astral Silver 107s.

In the end, I could careless about collector values. When I got out of college, after a few years of slugging it out to where I finally started to get a little ahead in life, I bought a 77 Mercedes 280E. It was the first really nice thing I ever owned, and I loved it. The whole time I drove it tho, I kept saying to myself that I wished I had the two seater sports car version of the same car, the 280 SL, instead, but they weren't sold in the states and were pretty rare. Fifteen years later I ran into a one-owner 83 280 SL in fabulous condition, and I jumped on it. In the end I bought it because it made me happy, and when I drive it, its like I have fulfilled some life-long promise to myself. That's the real reason to buy a car. The kind of crap Lynn is going through with his car, I'd do it for this car with a smile on my face.

Kirk Vining
83 280 SL Astral Silver, 4sp Auto no power anything
84 Porsche 944
and about half dozen Oriental cars

There is actually a web site for that. It's called Alldata.com. You pay a yearly fee. First you tell it what kind of car it is. It walks you thru diagnosing what's wrong with the car, and tells you what to do to fix it, with photos an diagrams. I use it to maintain my Porsche. There's probably other sites like it.

Lynn

Take your troubled MB to a car auction and get what you can for it. Put it behind you and move on. Hopefully for all the members here it will be purchased by a non member to this forum and we will not have to read anymore wining about how bad MB cars are.

KV,
I agree to what you said about buying a car to fulfill a promise to thyself. When the R129 first came out while I was still a young buck, I thought it was the most beautiful piece of machinery on the planet. I particularly love the 2-tone design, especially the white and light grey combination. My dream finally came true when I could afford a '95, and the exact colour combination that I have always dream of. I cannot tell you the feeling I get EVERY time I get behind the wheel.

Well I bought mine as a driver,collectable,and because I always wanted one.From the first time I saw one I wanted one. These cars will always be wanted by someone. I had a 1977 corvette for a little while and as all the early models and big Blocks get bought up the prices go higher for the 77 vette though not a great year due to detuned engine and smog control. Like the 107 someone will always want one to forfill their dream.When all the two door 57 chevys are gone the four doors go up in price. It just a matter of time.

Well, here we go again.

Extra Nice 107 500SL on ebay
 

Here's a sweet one on Ebay. Only 43K. This would be my pick as an investment.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6338&item=2476103515&rd=1

Hey guys. Well no calls or responses to my ads over the weekend. I will keep trying. I am going to look into having a rebuilt transmission put into the car. As long as its not selling and it's still mine, I intend to maintain it. I feel like the car has been abused long enough now, and the least I can do is take care of any problems that occur while I own it. I understand what you guys are saying about putting good money after bad, but if I have to keep the car I want it to be in as close to perfect shape as possible. Ive been told its cheaper to have a rebuilt one put in , than to pay to have it rebuilt. You guys have any thoughts on this?

Lynn,
You may want to compare the price between a rebuild and a new one first. You may be surprised the difference may not worth it especially you are so picky and you may be owning this car for a while to come. Also, it may not really need a new tranny. Get a second opinion exactly what you need before spending more money unnecessarily.

Roy Field at Timonium, MD quoted me $1,200 to rebuild my tranny on the '87 300E. I am sure it will be a little higher for your SL, but do shop around before making any decision. Your car is still running.

Thanks Elau. I was told that its easier and less costly to pop in a rebuilt one, rather than pulling mine, rebuilding it, and re placing it. Its looks like selling this car is not going to be as easy as I thought

[QUOTE]Originally posted by KirkVining
[B]suginami -
I read the guys book. It did a good job of keeping me away from 380's, which he really trashed.

OK, now what is the beef with 380's? I think mine is a pretty classy ride. I suppose if cubic inches is the standard to judge cars by, a old Ford LTD with a 460 would be near the pinnacle of all cars. I actually am glad these silly prejudices exist, so I can buy a nice 380 at half the price of a 560.

Wow, thats not the case in dc. In the Washington post, on Ebay and most other places they range from 8 to 13 k depending on condition. Im not sure where you live but they never go for half price here. Im glad Im not selling in that state. lol

Exactly, Lynn. And 560 sellers want a bunch more, I've seen $18k asking recently. Always, it is almost impossible to compare apples to apples, as condition is so subjective, but trust me, 560 sellers really think they have got something special, and I await the Big Answer Why.:confused:

I agree, I test drove a 560 that really was a peice of junk. The cars are identical with the exception of that front spoiler and trunk light. Luckily most people can't tell one from another. Its good that they all look almost the same

1. 227 hp vs. 155, a 46% increase in power.

2. ABS and airbags (only on the '85 380).

3. 81-83 SL's come with the single row timing chain that could ultimately lunch the engine even if regularly replaced, and it costs $3k or so to replace with the double row. The 560 chain and guides need to be replaced, but there's not the same risk of catastrophic failure with regular maintenance.

4. 1-9 years newer.

Nobody says the 380 is a bad car, but with $12k 560s with 80k miles offered several times on this site in the last few months, why would a buyer pay a similar price for a 380? If you like your cars, keep enjoying them, you don't have anything to prove to anyone.

Lynn, we have butted heads in the past, but only because of my firm belief in the value of these old 107's. I think we are right around the bottom in terms of price: most of the yuppies are out to buy the newer models, and the age is not quite yet antique. 450,380,560,no matter, these cars are gonna be big time collectibles, with the huge bonus of being able to actually drive them while we wait for the re-valuation. If you can, hold on to yours, and I'd bet 10 years from now you will be up at least 100%. Maybe not a huge compound, but you can't drive up to the local fancy-schmancy restaurant in your shares of Google.

you don't have anything to prove to anyone.

Indeed, as I have stated the big $$$ 560 sellers have something to prove...:rolleyes:

3. 81-83 SL's come with the single row timing chain that could ultimately lunch the engine even if regularly replaced, and it costs $3k or so to replace with the double row. The 560 chain and guides need to be replaced, but there's not the same risk of catastrophic failure with regular maintenance.

Duh, buy one converted or make it happen. Geez.



$12k 560s with 80k miles offered

Right, and the condition??? Always gonna be low end clunkers. Look, I track the prices of these things, and 560 sellers try to command a big premium, and based on slight real world benefits. Anybody really gonna drag race these things? And against what, any decent 5.0 LX 'Stang will cook a 560. What do you suggest, burnouts at the local Bistro? C'mon. :o:p

Ya know, as I think about it, the 560 arrogance is just about as siily as the "my knobs go to 11" in Spinal Tap.

Ok guys, Im finding refurbished trans for this car for 795.00 including shipping. How much do you think a mechanic would charge just for the installation? Thanks

Lynn,
I think that's a question you have to ask whichever shop you take your car to. Obviously the dealer is not going to work on it since it is not genuine MB part. It's up to you to find a reputable shop with reasonable price. I am not sure any member can honestly answer that question for you. You can count on at least $55/hr rate in the DC area.

Around here it would be $300-500.

Thx for your help. By the time Im done this car will be brand new. I found a rebuilt 380 sl transmission for 795.00 with a 90 day warranty and I contacted National Transmission Svc. in Bailey's Crossroads, VA and they will remove the old one and install the new one for 550.00. Anyone heard anything good or bad about this place. This is reasonable

[QUOTE]Originally posted by alanf
[B]Actually, I have nothing against 380's. The guy who wrote the book did. His ***** was that they weren't "european" enough, as they were designed specfically for the American market.

Kirk Vining
83 280 SL Euro blows the doors off 380s
84 Porsche 944

In order for a 560 to command a killer price, they have to be low miles and perfect. The people who are the prime candidates to buy a car of this type are people who have a lot of money, and people like that demand excellance, style and quality, and they will pay to get it. The problem is, these people want either new or antique, The 107s ain't one and they ain't the other, and it is weakening the price. They, just like us, will get old.

12K 560's with 80K? Where? Did the odo quit after it was pulled from a swamp?

On the mustangs, sure their fast, but 20 years from now my SL will still be around.

Kirk Vining
83 280 SL, used for smoking 380's,450's
84 Porsche 944 used for smoking Mustangs