Election time
 

By the way....

Iraq is having yet ANOTHER free democratic election tomorrow, through which their new parliament will be chosen.

This is the THIRD opportunity for Iraqis to vote since we relieved them of that pesky Saddam guy.... Voter turnout out is expected to be very good, and even higher than the referendum vote that was held some time ago.

Just thought some of you would like to know that something HAS actually been accomplished in Iraq, in spite of what some would have you believe.

Mike

Want to bet Howard Dean or Jack Murtha will deny its really happening?

It's great that Iraqis get to vote. And it seems that most of them care about the process, in fact a higher percentage of Iraqis care about it than do Americans. Americans say they care about voting, but since many don't bother, one wonders.

Unfortunately, about half of Americans will deny that Iraq is better off with an elected government than they were under tyranny.

I worry about that half......becasue they actually have the right to vote.

The so called liberal hoards, that half of the US that believes that Iraq was best left alone (!), fortunately don't vote in very high numbers. They ***** in great numbers and consume all manner of products advertised on main stream media outlets (further supporting CNN, NBC, NYTimes, etc,) but contribute little to substantive discourse.

The truth is that the liberal hoard needs ideas and leadership. Their movement has been adrift for awhile. Reacting instead of acting. The arguments against the President's positions are just that - against the President, and not FOR anything as an alternative. That's what's scary.

blah blah blah, the rhetoric never stops. You should get a parrot to talk for you.

Then this thread becomes 10 pages long like the previous thread. Don't people get tired of this?

Global enmity doesn't come cheap
 

...hey, and it only costs the US taxpayers $500,000,000,000!

And a bit over 2,000 American lives. Some of us think that's a sacrifice more important than money. I hope the Iraqis succeed and "earn this."

Bot

I'd feel better if some of you would please contemplate "sacrifice" and the importance of self importance on your own dime and your own time. I strongly suggest you folks you invest in one of those ubiquitous first person shoot em up games--they're downloadable on this newfangled interweb thingee. Try it, I think you'll like it.

That's why we are a representative nation, dude. We have elections. The government sets direction. We have additional elections. The government adusts or changes or stays the course.

Don't like the result? Work for change. Convince people of the rightness of your cause.

Repeat.


Guess what? Your side lost. Twice. Maybe it will win next year? Work to make it happen and maybe you can change the direction.

Or you can sit in a dark corner and whine and complain and call other folks ugly names and abuse them with sarcasm and invective.

Whatever floats your boat.

Or as a friend of mine once said, "Wish in one hand and s**t in the other. Which one fills first?"

What "side" is that?

The side that lost else you wouldn't be in a state of near-perpetual apoplexy and hysteria, silly.

Your side did lose, didn't it?

B

so do you ever have anything to contribute other than rant and complain?

How much was pissed away keeping welfare bums fed and housed and squeezing out one more welfare baby after another over the decades?

Why do you hate Americans?

What? I'm not sure what you are saying. So all the rhetoric you say is valuable?

I'm not taking away from your mercedes technical knowledge, but if you are going to talk about me ranting, then you should also look at the ranting you do everyday about how bill clinton was the one who let the terrorist do the things they do.

The neo-cons love to brag about the Iraqi "vote" -- funny, I don't hear them bragging about the $500,000,000,000.00 that has ben wasted or the 2,xxx lives that they have ended. But gosh darn, dang, we 'mericans gots to make'm vote.

The bloody consequences of civil war in Iraq have flowed from America's military invasion and occupation of that country. Arguing that "an even worse" civil war will occur as a consequence of America ceasing its invasion and military occupation of Iraq only seeks to shift the burden of accountability from those who instigated and abetted the disaster to those who argued against it and wish to conclude America's disastrous part in it forthwith. The "consequences" of a civil war result from beginning one, not from de-escalating and then eliminating the foreign military component of it.

The "Vietnamization" of Iraq has now begun: a desperate American stall for time until the "responsible" parties in Washington D.C. can "stand up" some Iraqi mercenaries who will fight and die for America's interests rather than their own. The fatal flaw in this inherently conflicted policy should appear obvious to the casual observer.

If on the other hand the bad puppet mercenaries decide -- as one should suspect -- to fight for their own interests rather than America's, the Kurds and Shiites will continue with the targeted political arrests and assassinations of their Sunni countrymen while leaving the large scale, "industrial grade" arresting and slaughtering of their Sunni countrymen to the Americans. What a great pogrom for enraging the world's billion Sunni Muslims and filling them with a hatred for America that will last for generations to come!

So? They already didn't like us before that. Why would this change anything?

Lets wait and see what happens. If it can produce something substantial like an Iraq that is stable, we will all benifit. If not, it was a mistake.

I never knew we loved Iraq enough to lay down 2000 of our best men and women for their country.

Of course it was only after we opened Al Capone's vault and nuthin was there, that we focused on "democracy".

What a crock!

How's the vote going?

It's kind of embarrassing, isn't it? These ignorant peasants risk being murdered to make their fingers blue. And they turn-out in proportions that should make western democracies blue with envy.

Most Americans couldn't be bothered with actually going through the trauma of driving to a climate-controlled polling place conveniently near home. No shots, no bombs.

B

Then prove how Bill Clinton responded to the terrorist attacks under his watch?.........................the answer to sum that up was he bombed an Aspirin factory and blew up an abandoned terrorist camp. Pretty weak response for multiple terrorist attacks....



Oh and the infamous comment about OBL after the WTC bombing.................."No controlling legal authority..." boy was that ever a lame comment for an American leader to make.

I don't hear liberals bragging over the trillions wasted supporting lazy welfare bums for the last 60+ years.....

$500,000,000,001
 

Is there a Foreign Country Interior Re-decorating Imperative clause embedded somewhere in the Constitution?

Here's some news about the actual vote.

Iraqis Cast Ballots Amid Tight Security

Dec 15, 7:25 AM (ET)

By BASSEM MROUE

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - Iraqis voted in a historic parliamentary election Thursday, with strong turnout reported in Sunni Arab areas that had shunned balloting last January, bolstering U.S. hopes of calming the insurgency enough to begin withdrawing its troops.

Several explosions rocked Baghdad as the polls opened, including a large one near the heavily fortified Green Zone that slightly injured two civilians and a U.S. Marine, the U.S. military said. A civilian was killed when a mortar shell exploded near a polling station in the northern city of Tal Afar, and a bomb killed a hospital guard near a voting site in Mosul.

But violence overall was light and did not appear to discourage Iraqis, some of whom turned out wrapped in their country's flag on a bright, sunny day and afterward displayed a purple ink-stained index finger - a mark to guard against multiple voting.

A bomb also exploded in Ramadi, and the U.S. military said one was defused at a polling station in Fallujah, another insurgent stronghold, despite promises by major insurgent groups not to attack polling places. Some election sites in Ramadi were guarded by masked gunmen.

With a nationwide vehicle ban in effect, most Iraqis walked to the polls. Streets were generally empty of cars, except for police, ambulances and a few others with special permits.

An alliance of Shiite religious parties, which dominate the current government, was expected to win the largest number of seats - but not enough to form a new administration without a coalition with rival groups. That could set the stage for lengthy and possibly bitter negotiations to produce a government.

Up to 15 million Iraqis were electing 275 members of the first full-term parliament since Saddam Hussein's ouster from among 7,655 candidates running on 996 tickets, representing Shiite, Sunni, Kurdish, Turkomen and sectarian interests across a wide political spectrum. Iraqis do not vote for individual candidates, but instead for lists - or tickets - that compete for the seats in each of the 18 provinces.

Some preliminary returns were expected late Thursday, but final returns could take days, if not weeks.

Funny..I remember you supporting Kosovo....

Fact checker, please
 

That is funny, but not remotely correct or even relevant.

I haven't supported any NATO/US foreign interventions that have taken place in my lifetime (four decades).

not relivent? its a foriegn country we have no interest in that wasted huge sums of money and military resources....it served our national intrest in no way at all.

Yes, the Iraq fiasco has been a waste of lives and resources, hasn't it? I'm glad we had this little talk.

Iraq was not a waste.....it was just way overdue...

Who says we love Iraq or any country to do that. I doubt we could care less if it wasn't in our interests.

Pathetic, isn't it.

Mike

Iraqi's are turning out in extremely high numbers to vote.....funny since the nay sayers (Democrats) were crying we "forced" democracy upon them and they really don't want it.....

Funny.......thats not how they would display that had they felt that way.

Hey, now you can join the Zeitgeist club (aka known as H202), and just call everyone you disagree with a "neo-con"! :rolleyes:

On a much more important note: I agree that we could have handled Saddam's removal in a more efficient, less expensive (in lives and $$), and decisive manner.... But what's done is done, and the end result is good for them, and more importantly, will be good for us.

Mike

Now wait and see if all the young Iranians who don't fall for the hogwash the Mullahs spew and decide they want a democracy.......or the non-idiots in Syria (there has to be some) .........

If it walks like a duck...

It would've been a helluva lot more efficient and inexpensive to keep up the UN's highly successful strategy of containment...ah, but that might be too difficult a task for our resident free-spending big government globe-trotting "libertarians".

yeah...right along with the Oil For food scam that brought that on and sustained it for so long.

Scam and eggs
 

Given the futility and gross incompetence of the current scam strategy, anything looks better, even a far less expensive UN managed scam.

oh really........You must love how the Mafia does things....The UN has commited the biggest scam in history adn you want to let them run things......perhaps you wish to Name Bernard Ebers to Repplace Koffie Annan as the head of that bunch of theives. Along with Kenneth Lay as deputy thief in charge.

I'd be willing spend 10 times as much, just so that the UN is NOT involved.

Sometimes it's just about principle. My disdain for the UN overpowers my usual disdain for "big government free spending".

Besides, the UN "containment" strategy didn't exactly foster democracy and freedom for the Iraqi citizens.... did it?.....

Mike

Futility?

This is NOT how most people would define "futility":

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4531904.stm

Mike

Don't you know...thats all Bush sponsored propaganda....there was no election today...

Oh, yeah... I forgot. How stupid of me to actually believe that something good is happening there....

Mike

sorry folks "democracy" and "free elections" are not the be all and end all. I was watching some coverage last night and while the reporter was talking, not one but two bombs went off.

Democracy doesn't work in the middle of civil war any more than an umbrella works in the middle of a hurricane. It's window dressing, a salve. The country is in shambles and people want to argue about making the trains run on time without realizing they have no trains.

What the country needs is an authoritave central government. Dictator, communism, facisim, whatever. But a parlimentary system in such a sharply divided country (in which 1/3 of the population are essentially unrepresented) is going to fall flat on it's face.

We all know the left hates democracy....and you just proved it.

Actually, there were only a couple of small incidents. By all accounts, the elections went even smoother and more successfully than anyone anticipated.

Iraq is not in a "civil war". Most of the country is actually quite peaceful right now. It's just the small minority of troublemakers that's getting the coverage, as usual. As I already said in another post.... Iraq was in shambles LONG before we showed up. We're helping them do something about it.

Yes, that's a f***ing BRILLIANT idea! :rolleyes: Are you serious???.... They've already endured the dictator/fascism plan, and I'm sure most of them would say "no thanks" to communism as well.

WE (the US) are also a "sharply divided country", with a lot of people who claim to be "unrepresented", yet our representative government is ticking along quite nicely for the most part.... Imagine that. :rolleyes:

Mike

That's some funny sheite!

Hey big spender...
 

BFD Fostering democracy and "freedom" wasn't the point, was it? Neither is the current strategy; it's about installing a compliant client state--no more, no less. Cut the bull and let's just call a turd a turd, already.

It was about all of the above and more, and I consider all of the above (and the "more" part) to be legitimate motivations. It is OUR self-interest I am most concerned with. All other considerations are secondary. My apologies if that hurts your sensitive side. :rolleyes:

Mike