Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Discussions > Off-Topic Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-08-2006, 11:27 PM
H2O2's Avatar
Empty Vessel
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ladeluftkühlerstadt
Posts: 1,429
Hey, they seem to get "it"

Published on Wednesday, February 8, 2006 by the Guardian / UK
Sweden Plans to Be World's First Oil-Free Economy
· 15-year limit set for switch to renewable energy
· Biofuels favoured over further nuclear power

by John Vidal


Sweden is to take the biggest energy step of any advanced western economy by trying to wean itself off oil completely within 15 years - without building a new generation of nuclear power stations.


Sweden...gets almost all its electricity from nuclear and hydroelectric power, and relies on fossil fuels mainly for transport. Almost all its heating has been converted in the past decade to schemes which distribute steam or hot water generated by geothermal energy or waste heat.

The attempt by the country of 9 million people to become the world's first practically oil-free economy is being planned by a committee of industrialists, academics, farmers, car makers, civil servants and others, who will report to parliament in several months.

The intention, the Swedish government said yesterday, is to replace all fossil fuels with renewables before climate change destroys economies and growing oil scarcity leads to huge new price rises.

"Our dependency on oil should be broken by 2020," said Mona Sahlin, minister of sustainable development. "There shall always be better alternatives to oil, which means no house should need oil for heating, and no driver should need to turn solely to gasoline."

According to the energy committee of the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences, there is growing concern that global oil supplies are peaking and will shortly dwindle, and that a global economic recession could result from high oil prices.

Ms Sahlin has described oil dependency as one of the greatest problems facing the world. "A Sweden free of fossil fuels would give us enormous advantages, not least by reducing the impact from fluctuations in oil prices," she said. "The price of oil has tripled since 1996."

A government official said: "We want to be both mentally and technically prepared for a world without oil. The plan is a response to global climate change, rising petroleum prices and warnings by some experts that the world may soon be running out of oil."

Sweden, which was badly hit by the oil price rises in the 1970s, now gets almost all its electricity from nuclear and hydroelectric power, and relies on fossil fuels mainly for transport. Almost all its heating has been converted in the past decade to schemes which distribute steam or hot water generated by geothermal energy or waste heat. A 1980 referendum decided that nuclear power should be phased out, but this has still not been finalised.

The decision to abandon oil puts Sweden at the top of the world green league table. Iceland hopes by 2050 to power all its cars and boats with hydrogen made from electricity drawn from renewable resources, and Brazil intends to power 80% of its transport fleet with ethanol derived mainly from sugar cane within five years.

Last week George Bush surprised analysts by saying that the US was addicted to oil and should greatly reduce imports from the Middle East. The US now plans a large increase in nuclear power.

The British government, which is committed to generating 10% of its electricity from renewable sources by 2012, last month launched an energy review which has a specific remit to consider a large increase in nuclear power. But a report by accountants Ernst & Young yesterday said that the UK was falling behind in its attempt to meet its renewables target.

"The UK has Europe's best wind, wave and tidal resources yet it continues to miss out on its economic potential," said Jonathan Johns, head of renewable energy at Ernst & Young.

Energy ministry officials in Sweden said they expected the oil committee to recommend further development of biofuels derived from its massive forests, and by expanding other renewable energies such as wind and wave power.

Sweden has a head start over most countries. In 2003, 26% of all the energy consumed came from renewable sources - the EU average is 6%. Only 32% of the energy came from oil - down from 77% in 1970.

The Swedish government is working with carmakers Saab and Volvo to develop cars and lorries that burn ethanol and other biofuels. Last year the Swedish energy agency said it planned to get the public sector to move out of oil. Its health and library services are being given grants to convert from oil use and homeowners are being encouraged with green taxes. The paper and pulp industries use bark to produce energy, and sawmills burn wood chips and sawdust to generate power.

Guardian Unlimited © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2006

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-08-2006, 11:49 PM
aklim's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Location: Greenfield WI, USA
Posts: 8,514
2 things:

1. They are not going to be an "oil free" economy. Maybe and "oil free for electricity" economy. Maybe even an "oil free from gasoline" economy. However the taint of oil is still going to be there.

2. Even if they are 100% oil free, if the rest of the world tanks, so do they.
__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-08-2006, 11:56 PM
H2O2's Avatar
Empty Vessel
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ladeluftkühlerstadt
Posts: 1,429
Leading by example is a "foreign" concept.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-09-2006, 12:00 AM
aklim's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Location: Greenfield WI, USA
Posts: 8,514
Quote:
Originally Posted by H2O2
Leading by example is a "foreign" concept.
Depends on whether anyone is going to follow, doesn't it? Can't lead if no one will follow. Still, like I said, they will not be truely "oil free" unless you change the defination and if the world tanks, so do they. Maybe a little later but still it will happen. Not saying it is a bad idea or a good one. FWIW, I think it is a good idea in theory, however, like communism or socialism, time will tell if it really works. I'm doubtful it will achieve the said aims but we shall see.
__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-09-2006, 01:33 AM
cmac2012's Avatar
Me, Myself, and I
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 36,193
Quote:
Originally Posted by H2O2
Published on Wednesday, February 8, 2006 by the Guardian / UK
Sweden Plans to Be World's First Oil-Free Economy
· 15-year limit set for switch to renewable energy
· Biofuels favoured over further nuclear power

by John Vidal


A government official said: "We want to be both mentally and technically prepared for a world without oil. The plan is a response to global climate change, rising petroleum prices and warnings by some experts that the world may soon be running out of oil."
Said a mouthful there.
Quote:
Last week George Bush surprised analysts by saying that the US was addicted to oil and should greatly reduce imports from the Middle East. The US now plans a large increase in nuclear power.
Hidden the fine print of W's embrace of hydrogen is the news that nuclear power is the preferred method for generating the electricity needed to extact hydrogen from water. We'll need some large multiple, like 50 or more, of our current nuke plants to produce enough hydrogen to operate and auto and truck fleet like we now have.
__________________
Te futueo et caballum tuum

1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-09-2006, 01:36 AM
cmac2012's Avatar
Me, Myself, and I
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 36,193
Quote:
Originally Posted by aklim
Depends on whether anyone is going to follow, doesn't it? Can't lead if no one will follow. Still, like I said, they will not be truely "oil free" unless you change the defination and if the world tanks, so do they. Maybe a little later but still it will happen. Not saying it is a bad idea or a good one. FWIW, I think it is a good idea in theory, however, like communism or socialism, time will tell if it really works. I'm doubtful it will achieve the said aims but we shall see.
The world will eventually have to follow. Oil will run out. Count on it. We use it about 1 million times faster than it is produced. When we run out is up for debate and conjecture, but we WILL run out, or our descendents, anyway.

If world economy starts to tank when oil supplies dwindle sharply, countries who adapted early will be in good position to sell alternative energy technologies to the grasshoppers of the world (you know, the ant vs. the grasshopper fable).
__________________
Te futueo et caballum tuum

1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-09-2006, 07:57 AM
I miss my MBZ
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 563
Quote:
Originally Posted by H2O2
Published on Wednesday, February 8, 2006 by the Guardian / UK
The US now plans a large increase in nuclear power.
I would like to read more about this.... Or better yet, see it actually happen =)


-John
__________________
2009 Kia Sedona
2009 Honda Odyssey EX-L
12006 Jetta Pumpe Duse
(insert Mercedes here)

Husband, Father, sometimes friend =)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-09-2006, 07:57 AM
aklim's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Location: Greenfield WI, USA
Posts: 8,514
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmac2012
The world will eventually have to follow. Oil will run out. Count on it. We use it about 1 million times faster than it is produced. When we run out is up for debate and conjecture, but we WILL run out, or our descendents, anyway.

If world economy starts to tank when oil supplies dwindle sharply, countries who adapted early will be in good position to sell alternative energy technologies to the grasshoppers of the world (you know, the ant vs. the grasshopper fable).
Yes, oil will run out. When? Who knows. It was predicted almost a hundred years ago. Every time, it seems to somehow not run out. Oil wells that were dry 30 years ago are pumping oil again today. 1 million? Surely you jest.

Energy is only a small thing as far as I see. Wind, solar, etc, etc is going to take over the energy sector sooner or later. It is the by products that are hard to take up. Energy aside, how many products do you use that are not oil tainted? Here is another fable for you. I knew someone who was an alcoholic. He wised up and stopped drinking for 20 years. In the meantime, he took up pot smoking. He even lost a job because he failed a piss test when all he had to do was abstain for a month. So, what did he do in reality? Swap one addiction for another. So, all that will happen is we swap our oil addiction for another addiction.

Even in the movie Star Trek TNG where they have replicator technology, they seem to have friction with other races over resources.
__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-09-2006, 01:29 PM
cmac2012's Avatar
Me, Myself, and I
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 36,193
Quote:
Originally Posted by aklim
Yes, oil will run out. When? Who knows. It was predicted almost a hundred years ago. Every time, it seems to somehow not run out. Oil wells that were dry 30 years ago are pumping oil again today. 1 million? Surely you jest.

Energy is only a small thing as far as I see. Wind, solar, etc, etc is going to take over the energy sector sooner or later. It is the by products that are hard to take up. Energy aside, how many products do you use that are not oil tainted? Here is another fable for you. I knew someone who was an alcoholic. He wised up and stopped drinking for 20 years. In the meantime, he took up pot smoking. He even lost a job because he failed a piss test when all he had to do was abstain for a month. So, what did he do in reality? Swap one addiction for another. So, all that will happen is we swap our oil addiction for another addiction.

Even in the movie Star Trek TNG where they have replicator technology, they seem to have friction with other races over resources.
Yeah, you're right. Probably more like we use it 10 or 100 million times faster than it's produced.

The reason the other stuff hasn't taken over yet is because it's more expensive, by a not small amount. The notion that the marketplace will solve these problems just like magic may not be completely solid.

We're going to have the need for greater efficiency forced on us, whether we like it or not. Might be good to get a jump on the game.
__________________
Te futueo et caballum tuum

1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-09-2006, 02:19 PM
Zeus's Avatar
Moderating, Eh?
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,774
Quote:
Originally Posted by aklim
Even in the movie Star Trek TNG where they have replicator technology, they seem to have friction with other races over resources.
Best argument I've read all day!

Aklim, that was a good one.
__________________
Chris
2007 E550 4Matic - 61,000 Km - Iridium Silver, black leather, Sport package, Premium 2 package
2007 GL450 4Matic - 62,000 Km - Obsidian Black Metallic, black leather, all options
1998 E430 - sold
1989 300E - 333,000 Km - sold
1977 280E - sold
1971 250 - retired


"And a frign hat. They gave me a hat at the annual benefits meeting. I said. how does this benefit me. I dont have anything from the company.. So they gave me a hat." - TheDon
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-09-2006, 02:43 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,263
Quote:
Originally Posted by aklim
Yes, oil will run out. When? Who knows. It was predicted almost a hundred years ago. Every time, it seems to somehow not run out. Oil wells that were dry 30 years ago are pumping oil again today. 1 million? Surely you jest.
Don't confuse "produced" with "pumped out of the ground."
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-09-2006, 03:04 PM
WVOtoGO's Avatar
Up & Over
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Usually, in the skies above you.
Posts: 151
At least it's in an eco-friendly direction.

Regardless of the economy, politics, who follows, etc. of it all. If it works to any degree, they will at the very least be breathing cleaner air then most of us.
__________________
1980 300D - Veggie Burner !
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-09-2006, 03:06 PM
aklim's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Location: Greenfield WI, USA
Posts: 8,514
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmac2012
Yeah, you're right. Probably more like we use it 10 or 100 million times faster than it's produced.

The reason the other stuff hasn't taken over yet is because it's more expensive, by a not small amount. The notion that the marketplace will solve these problems just like magic may not be completely solid.

We're going to have the need for greater efficiency forced on us, whether we like it or not. Might be good to get a jump on the game.
Don't get me wrong. Efficiency is a great thing to increase. Using wind, hydro, nuclear, etc, etc, is all good. However, I find that article misleading in that in the forseeable future, I don't see how any place can be oil free. There are way too many products that we use that need oil. When you say "oil free" I think that you can do without any oil. I suppose if you have others manufacture the stuff and don't count it, you could make such a false claim. Just as Bush claiming that we need to cut out the Mideast oil. Good for him. Lets just buy more from South America and other places and we can cut down the number of barrels we buy from Saudi Arabia and other ME places. How will that affect the ME? Not even noticable since the oil prices will still be the same and China and India will gobble up more. So, even if they get paid in Vietnamese Dong, Chinese money or Indian Rupee, does it matter? It still gets translated into the same thing. I have 50 pennies in my right pocket. If I put 25 in my left and 25 in my back pockets I still have 50 pennies. So, even if we took the ME out of whom we get oil from, will it change anything? In your rethoric, yes. You can also chalk up a phyrric victory for yourself. In real terms, have you achieved anything? Absolutely not.

BTW, if the world economy tanks and you have this magic source of power that you can sell to those who don't have it, with what will they pay you with?

All I am saying is that while this is a good idea and sounds good from the rethoric standpoint, all it will end up doing is shifting the addiction from one source to another. The main cause of all the world's problem is the 2 legged creature who dominates it. Till that changes, nothing changes. Just like the pennies in the pocket. Shift it here or there, you still have the same amount. Even if we gave everyone replicators to make food, clothes, etc, etc, we will still fight over dilithium to power the damn thing.
__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-09-2006, 03:08 PM
aklim's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Location: Greenfield WI, USA
Posts: 8,514
Quote:
Originally Posted by WVOtoGO
Regardless of the economy, politics, who follows, etc. of it all. If it works to any degree, they will at the very least be breathing cleaner air then most of us.
Till our dirty air mixes with their cleaner air, yes.
__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-09-2006, 03:57 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Reno/Sparks, NV
Posts: 3,063
Hmm I thought Iceland was going to be the first one. There was a TV program that I saw that showed Iceland on the verge of becoming a hydrogen economy thanks to all the geothermal sources of energy that they have. My hats off to Sweden for being the leader in green technology and I hope more will follow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmac2012
Hidden the fine print of W's embrace of hydrogen is the news that nuclear power is the preferred method for generating the electricity needed to extact hydrogen from water. We'll need some large multiple, like 50 or more, of our current nuke plants to produce enough hydrogen to operate and auto and truck fleet like we now have.
Yup, there's always some fine print isn't there? I've read that at least some of our hydrogen will also be extracted from crude oil which is another thing that Bush won't tell you about.

Aklim, I agree that it will be difficult to be 100% oil free for any country, since oil has so many uses besides powering automobiles. But who knows, there are synthetic ways to make products, some of which probably haven't been discovered yet. Anyway I think you misread the article. It doesn't say that Sweden will not use any oil whatsoever by 2020, only that it will no longer be the major source of energy. Even that is a very respectable and worthy goal. Don't be so pessimistic about everything. Are you saying it's better to change nothing and continue doing what we're doing?

__________________
2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page