Troops no longer happy...
 

http://www.nbc4.com/news/7541767/detail.html

Looks like the troops don't support the war any longer either...

God Bless Them.

I've been saying, since I started posting here regularly several months ago, that this is the opinion shared by a wide majority of returning combat Marines. Admittedly, I have spoken only minimally with members of our other services, or with those who have not earned their CAR. I have spoken personally with many men whose mission is combat, versus support, and whose position, for some time now, is that we are doing far more harm in Iraq than we are good. Several forum members have taken issue with my statements, yet none has provided any real-world evidence to the contrary - particularly evidence in the form of something akin to statements made directly to them by fine young men who have watched friends perish and who have caused others to do the same.

Wow, 85% of them think Saddam was involved in 9/11? I guess they don't have much opportunity there to watch or read news and all they get is the Bush administration's propaganda and visits from Cheney and Rumsfeld. Sad indeed. Even Bush is no longer saying that Saddam was involved.

Those 37% are morons.

Overall, I'm surprised the majority of them want out, but I can't blame them. In fact, I'm glad that they see the reality of the situation, but they have to do as they're told because that's what they signed up for.

I have a niece and nephew both in the USAR. Niece served a tour in the Kurdistan region and nephew has served two tours, one in Kuwait and the in eastern Iraq. He works in GIS while she works in some sort of police unit. Both of them say the Iraqis that they talk to want us the hell out. Both of them have been well treated by the Iraqis they work with and neither of them have been shot at, but they aren't in Anbar or Baghdad which is where the bad guys hang out. Instead, they worked in areas where people are optimistic and working for a better future. Most of them are already more than happy with the change--the people in Kurdistan and the Shia dominated areas are no longer brutalized and robbed by the Sunni-Arab dominated government of Saddam Hussein. Instead they are getting their lives back in order.

Of course Marines are pissed. They are on the sharp end of the spear. They see death and misery and not much change. Well no wonder, look where they are.

Look at the time mag poll of Iraqis (pdf download here: http://www.ericumansky.com/2005/12/time_poll_iraqi.html) you will not ethat Iraqis everywhere (except Anbar) are optimistic and see their lives improving and have hope for their futures.

If all you do is listen to people who get shot at and who deal-out harsh response then you will hear about what they know.

Are things going as swimmingly as DoD says? Heck no. Are things as bad as what front-line troops in the worst areas say? Heck no. But try for some fair and balanced analysis.

Bot

You will also note that the poll was taken last year. Some water has passed under that bridge in the meantime. Civil warriors may offer differing viewpoints right about now.

Last year was 2 months ago.

Originally posted by Botnst:
I failed to note that the point of my post was that even non-combat troops are beginning to recognize this conflict as folly. And a growing majority of American citizens share that view. With the latest polls showing the president with an approval rating below 50% in each of the fifty states, and 34% (down from 39%) overall, it should be clear by now, to even his most ardent supporters, that he's severely over-drawn his politcal capital account - having blown most of it in Iraq.

Really? Only about 300 shopping days left before Christmas.

A lot of water passes under a bridge in 2 months time, especially in the formerly sovereign nation of Iraq.

There is no doubt that things were bad under Saddam. If you weren't on his "team" life for you could really suck.

On the other hand, life in Iraq now seems significantly worse - and without signs of getting better. It is common knowledge that we have not helped to "improve" a nation we were at war with since Japan. Think about it.

Also, why do people forget how Saddam came into power? WE put him there. Anyway. I don't see it as a good sign of things when the ground troops don't even know the real reason they are there...

I think a lot of folks don't understand my position on the war. I have NOTHING against the folks that are there doing what amounts to their job. Most of these folks signed up for a free ride (The Armed Forces) and the lost the bet. The problem is that they didn't lose the bet for a real reason -- And the people that made it happen can't admit they made a mistake -- The good part is this poll proves it. It proves that the war was a joke and a sad waste of life and resources.

God Bless Them All.

Wow.

Spent a lot of time in the armed forces, did you?

:eek: Thos people never signed up for a free ride. If they wanted a free ride they would have worked for union pacific

Just some Arm Force until he needed glasses.

Originally posted by GottaDiesel:
Funny, I never considered it a free ride. I'd wager that I worked in far more difficult conditions, and for far less pay, than you've ever dreamed of, yet you consider that I took an easy path - a free ride. The other funny thing? I did in part it so guys like you can say prettty much anything they want, `cause they have guys like me (and now my son) covering their pansy asses.

Couldn't have said it any better NKowi.

I think what he meant is that a lot of the guys (not all) join the armed forces to get college scholarships and other benefits as well as a career because for many of these folks there are no better job opportunities. Recruiters especially prey on high school students of low-income families, and instill in their minds a rosy picture of life in the armed forces to get them to sign up. Of course many people who join do it because they want to defend this country, but it's certainly not the only reason out there.

That is not what he meant, some people cannot fathom the fact that people have a willingness to serve their country. There was a poll posted here awhile ago that killed the myth that military recruits are poor and dumb. Everyone in my family has served or is serving we are far from poor or middle class and college educated. There are many more like us.

Read this if you dare:

http://www.heritage.org/Research/NationalSecurity/cda05-08.cfm

Put simply, the current makeup of the all-vol*untary military looks like America. Where they are different, the data show that the average sol*dier is slightly better educated and comes from a slightly wealthier, more rural area. We found that the military (and Army specifically) included a higher proportion of blacks and lower propor*tions of other minorities but a proportionate num*ber of whites. More important, we found that recruiting was not drawing disproportionately from racially concentrated areas.

Perhaps more could be done to dismantle the claim that an all-volunteer military relies dispro*portionately on ignorant, black, poor, urban young citizens in America,

I do not disagree with the article, except that it is dated. The data is from two cohorts - the 1999 and 2003 recruit cohorts. A new study should be done between the 1999 recruit cohorts and 2005 recruits cohorts. I will not be surprised if you will find a much different result. The 2003 recruit cohorts include a lot of young man who were/are inflamed by the 9/11 event, and joined the armed forces for that reason. Time has waned that as we all know. Sons of friends of mine joined the armed forces in 2002/2003, but their siblings now of age will not do so now.

This may be true but doesn't make what GD posted any less preposterous regarding the 'free ride theory', which is what MedMech was responding to. I guess it is moot now that it appears that GD has been banned again.

I guess when you go crying to mommy once too often, mommy gives you a good swift kick in the a$$. :D

Certainly not a overall look and just my own observations, but I live in the area of Fort Huachuca and see a lot of it's personnel. Home of the Army's Electronic Proving Ground & the Army Intelligence Center /School. Maybe they're kind of the nerds of the Army, but they are a great group and a much better bunch than I remember when I was in during the draft era. Maybe the girls more fall more into that disadvantaged group people are trying to paint the whole bunch as, but like I said it's only my first impression type of thing.

The Armed Forces Are Changing
 

You are right. The armed forces are recruiting a lot of smart (nerds?) people from colleges with good pay and incentives. Most will not be in the field, but involve in intelligence, data retriving, analysis, etc, etc.The competition for college graduates with the correct training are intense. Warfare and weapons have changed a great deal, and there is a great need for people to understand, and use them, maintain them, and improve them. We need to move with technology, and there is where we are the best despite what many think.

Nerds of the Army:o man if anyone dared to say that :D

We said "NO COMMO FOR YOU TWO WEEKS" .

Fort Huachuca, is HALO school, Intelligence, Electronic Warfare, Psyc Ops and advanced commo school and a nice base and a great place to relax.

What are you talking about? The article is from February 2006 and so is the poll.

He means the article MM linked to.

Maybe he meant what he said and said what he meant.

Bot

...an elephant is faithful, 100 per cent.

[I didn't mean anything by this post, I just felt like completing the sentence.]

That's my take, what an ass.
Paul
______
98 E300

Thread closed.
 

Since GottaDiesel is not here, this thread has been closed and will be deleted in a day or so. Should anyone wish to continue discussing the original topic, please feel free to do so in a new thread.

Thanks,
Chris