http://www.nbc4.com/news/7541767/detail.html

Looks like the troops don't support the war any longer either...

God Bless Them.

I've been saying, since I started posting here regularly several months ago, that this is the opinion shared by a wide majority of returning combat Marines. Admittedly, I have spoken only minimally with members of our other services, or with those who have not earned their CAR. I have spoken personally with many men whose mission is combat, versus support, and whose position, for some time now, is that we are doing far more harm in Iraq than we are good. Several forum members have taken issue with my statements, yet none has provided any real-world evidence to the contrary - particularly evidence in the form of something akin to statements made directly to them by fine young men who have watched friends perish and who have caused others to do the same.

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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'nice doggie' until you can find a rock."

Wow, 85% of them think Saddam was involved in 9/11? I guess they don't have much opportunity there to watch or read news and all they get is the Bush administration's propaganda and visits from Cheney and Rumsfeld. Sad indeed. Even Bush is no longer saying that Saddam was involved.

Those 37% are morons.

Overall, I'm surprised the majority of them want out, but I can't blame them. In fact, I'm glad that they see the reality of the situation, but they have to do as they're told because that's what they signed up for.

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2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL

I have a niece and nephew both in the USAR. Niece served a tour in the Kurdistan region and nephew has served two tours, one in Kuwait and the in eastern Iraq. He works in GIS while she works in some sort of police unit. Both of them say the Iraqis that they talk to want us the hell out. Both of them have been well treated by the Iraqis they work with and neither of them have been shot at, but they aren't in Anbar or Baghdad which is where the bad guys hang out. Instead, they worked in areas where people are optimistic and working for a better future. Most of them are already more than happy with the change--the people in Kurdistan and the Shia dominated areas are no longer brutalized and robbed by the Sunni-Arab dominated government of Saddam Hussein. Instead they are getting their lives back in order.

Of course Marines are pissed. They are on the sharp end of the spear. They see death and misery and not much change. Well no wonder, look where they are.

Look at the time mag poll of Iraqis (pdf download here: http://www.ericumansky.com/2005/12/time_poll_iraqi.html) you will not ethat Iraqis everywhere (except Anbar) are optimistic and see their lives improving and have hope for their futures.

If all you do is listen to people who get shot at and who deal-out harsh response then you will hear about what they know.

Are things going as swimmingly as DoD says? Heck no. Are things as bad as what front-line troops in the worst areas say? Heck no. But try for some fair and balanced analysis.

Bot

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'Government is like a baby:
An alimentary canal with a big appetite at one end and
no sense of responsibility at the other'
- Ronald Reagan

You will also note that the poll was taken last year. Some water has passed under that bridge in the meantime. Civil warriors may offer differing viewpoints right about now.

Last year was 2 months ago.

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'Government is like a baby:
An alimentary canal with a big appetite at one end and
no sense of responsibility at the other'
- Ronald Reagan

Originally posted by Botnst:
I failed to note that the point of my post was that even non-combat troops are beginning to recognize this conflict as folly. And a growing majority of American citizens share that view. With the latest polls showing the president with an approval rating below 50% in each of the fifty states, and 34% (down from 39%) overall, it should be clear by now, to even his most ardent supporters, that he's severely over-drawn his politcal capital account - having blown most of it in Iraq.

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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'nice doggie' until you can find a rock."

Really? Only about 300 shopping days left before Christmas.

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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'nice doggie' until you can find a rock."

A lot of water passes under a bridge in 2 months time, especially in the formerly sovereign nation of Iraq.

There is no doubt that things were bad under Saddam. If you weren't on his "team" life for you could really suck.

On the other hand, life in Iraq now seems significantly worse - and without signs of getting better. It is common knowledge that we have not helped to "improve" a nation we were at war with since Japan. Think about it.

Also, why do people forget how Saddam came into power? WE put him there. Anyway. I don't see it as a good sign of things when the ground troops don't even know the real reason they are there...

I think a lot of folks don't understand my position on the war. I have NOTHING against the folks that are there doing what amounts to their job. Most of these folks signed up for a free ride (The Armed Forces) and the lost the bet. The problem is that they didn't lose the bet for a real reason -- And the people that made it happen can't admit they made a mistake -- The good part is this poll proves it. It proves that the war was a joke and a sad waste of life and resources.

God Bless Them All.

Wow.

Spent a lot of time in the armed forces, did you?

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'Government is like a baby:
An alimentary canal with a big appetite at one end and
no sense of responsibility at the other'
- Ronald Reagan

Thos people never signed up for a free ride. If they wanted a free ride they would have worked for union pacific

Just some Arm Force until he needed glasses.

Originally posted by GottaDiesel:
Funny, I never considered it a free ride. I'd wager that I worked in far more difficult conditions, and for far less pay, than you've ever dreamed of, yet you consider that I took an easy path - a free ride. The other funny thing? I did in part it so guys like you can say prettty much anything they want, `cause they have guys like me (and now my son) covering their pansy asses.

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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'nice doggie' until you can find a rock."