My impressions after spending all day in the NY Auto Show.

[Hatterasguy]

I spent the entire day today at the auto show. Fun day, love the city though nice to get down their. Macy's has their store done up with flowers, looks good.

Anyway I looked at everything and I mean everything. Here are my impressions:

1. You pretty much cannot buy a "junk" car these days. Even the cheapist Kia is put together better then pretty much anything built in the 1980's. (except for of course the high dollar euro stuff) They all have good warranty's, and pretty much all cars are very similer.

2. They are expensive. It seems like every car or truck that is worth buying is $30k-$45k. Even something like an Accord with a V6 or an F150 will cost you a nice chunk of change.

The new BMW's are pretty nice. I checked out a 330I, very nice car. Looks good to. for $37k they inlcude all maintaince and everything for 4 years. So you just trade up every 3-4 years and only have to pay the payment. I don't know BMW or MB its a tough choice, both have such nice cars on the market these days.

One car that I saw that would make me defect from MB are the 300C's and the Magnum. Those are nice RWD sedans you can pick up for $20kish after they are maybe 1 year old. Very comfortable car, don't really see how you can go wrong.

I also noticed that new cars are getting away from timing belts. Even the little 4 bangers I think I only saw one VW engine with a belt in the entire show. Pretty much everything these days run chains.

The new Saturns are quite nice, probably better then most GM cars. GM also was betting on the SUV's big time, tons and tons of SUV's at the show. I sudjest dumping GM stock now...

Caddy is really coming along, the CTS-V is nice car. Wouldn't buy one though only lease. They drop in value like a rock, E55's actualy have a bit of resale 3-5 years down the road. pay $75k for a CTS-V, keep it for 4 years and kiss at least $50k+ good by.

Lots of high hp cars and trucks their. 400hp-500hp isn't a big deal anymore.

On the truck front two brands stick out:
The GMC 1500 SS is a very nice truck. So is the Toyota Tacoma. They had a V6 4wd Tacoma their pretty loaded, crew cab ect, $30k.

I have to say its a draw the GMC has more comfort features like climate control, leather, traction control ect. But the Toyota is built like a rock, and looks like it would be cake to work on. I give those guys credit, tons of room under the hood and everything is easy to get at.

All and all an interesting show, cars are such a waste of money. I think I'll stick to my MB's now. I'd be just as happy with a $15k E320 as with a $38k 330I. Law of diminishing returns I guess, I'd rather just bank the difference.

[Botnst]

". You pretty much cannot buy a "junk" car these days. Even the cheapist Kia is put together better then pretty much anything built in the 1980's. (except for of course the high dollar euro stuff) They all have good warranty's, and pretty much all cars are very similer."

Ain't it the truth? My Mom's interested in a new car, she's got a 2001 C230 Kompressor (I think it's 01, maybe 02). Got about 15K on the clock. Std tranny. It's a nice little car but she just has never liked it. She doesn't like or trust electronics. On the downside the nearest M-B dealer to her is about 60 mi south of her--not convenient for an 88 year-old woman to drive for routine maintenance.

So I've been looking around at cars in the $25K - $45K range, though I think she'd look good in a Ford GT. She wants a small car, preferably without a backseat. There are some nice cars out there but they all have menus and programmable this's and that's.

Whatever happened to simplicity and excellence? Looks to me like we are covering for lack of excellence with greater complexity. No, I'm not picking on M-B, I'm just talking about trends that I see in automobiles.

I'm turning into a car curmudgeon.

B

[Hatterasguy]

Originally Posted by Botnst

Whatever happened to simplicity and excellence? Looks to me like we are covering for lack of excellence with greater complexity. No, I'm not picking on M-B, I'm just talking about trends that I see in automobiles.

I'm turning into a car curmudgeon.

B

New Honda Civic, lots of room 30mpg-40mpg, $16k for an auto tranny and decently optioned. They are simple, well built cars. Nice and roomy on the inside as well.

Actualy the $13k Kia is a nice little car, if I were in the market for a basic, cheap, new car I'd give that thing a very close look.


All the new higher end cars are overly complex. I hate I drive and any &)&)_&*_ knob that pretends to be I drive. What happend to pushing a button to change the radio station? Pisses my Uncle off to, thats why he buys the base 3 series BMW's, he doesn't want the stupid screen.

[Botnst]

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

New Honda Civic, lots of room 30mpg-40mpg, $16k for an auto tranny and decently optioned. They are simple, well built cars. Nice and roomy on the inside as well.

Actualy the $13k little Kia is a nice little car, if I were in the market for a basic, cheap, new car I'd give that thing a very close look.


All the new higher end cars are overly complex. I hate I drive and any &)&)_&*_ knob that pretends to be I drive. What happend to pushing a button to change the radio station? Pisses my Uncle off to, thats why he buys the base 3 series BMW's, he doesn't want the stupid screen.

I'd consider a Japanese or Korean car except Mom lives in a small town with Detroit Iron, only. So I'm leaning toward the Pontiac Solstice and Six or the Crossfire Coupe. I can't see Mom in a 'Stang or a Corvette.

Sorry about the hijack, man. You wrote a nice summary.

It's my own fault that while I was reading it felt like a finger in my throat and I had to spew that stuff about excellence and simplicity.

[GottaDiesel]

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

I sudjest dumping GM stock now...

It jumped $2+ today.

[Hatterasguy]

Originally Posted by GottaDiesel

It jumped $2+ today.

This is why I say this:
GM is putting their money on $30k-$60k big SUV's and playing up this E85 BS.

Ford on the other hand is putting their bet on hybrids now and fuel cells later.

Toyota is in the hybrid now fuel cell later camp as well. Toyota is most definitly the leader in hybrid technoligy. They had a big Lexus SUV there that claimed 30mpg around town!

Honda is banking on hybrid/natural gas cars now, fuel cells later.

The Europeans want to talk diesel, really high performance high MPG diesel's.

So ask yourself this, gas is $4-$5 a gallon. Who is going to get hurt by this the most??

[Brian Carlton]

Originally Posted by Botnst

I'm turning into a car curmudgeon.

B

Welcome to the club.

But, I have to tell you that it's not very large.

[Vronsky]

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

This is why I say this:
....

The Europeans want to talk diesel, really high performance high MPG diesel's.

These TDI-engines over here are really terrific. Quiet, great fuel economy and lots of power, even the smaller ones. Don't understand why you don't have them in the US. Diesel surely looks to be the future here. Will probably be my next car aswell.

[cmac2012]

Originally Posted by Vronsky

These TDI-engines over here are really terrific. Quiet, great fuel economy and lots of power, even the smaller ones. Don't understand why you don't have them in the US. Diesel surely looks to be the future here. Will probably be my next car aswell.

As soon as low sulphur diesel becomes widely available, they may ease up on the restrictions.

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

I also noticed that new cars are getting away from timing belts. Even the little 4 bangers I think I only saw one VW engine with a belt in the entire show. Pretty much everything these days run chains.

I've never understood all the pros and cons for sure, correct me if I'm wrong: chains are noisier than belts but don't need to be replaced every 50K to avoid engine destruction? Does either one have an advantage in energy drain?

Originally Posted by Botnst

Whatever happened to simplicity and excellence? Looks to me like we are covering for lack of excellence with greater complexity. No, I'm not picking on M-B, I'm just talking about trends that I see in automobiles.

Last show I went to, San Jose - a few years back - I ran into a guy checking out the newest Suzuki small sedan (not the Samurai -- did you hear Suzuki was merging with Rolls Royce? The Samurai is going to be renamed "Rolls Over."). He claimed it was a great value -- about $13K and had the goods that would normally cost $18K or up to get. Seemed like a no-nonsense eco-ride, as in eco-nomy.

[Hatterasguy]

Supposedly belts are quieter but I have never bought into that. MB uses chains, and they have some super silent gas engines. Nissan has used a chain in their V6 for a long time as well. I think maybe the American makes came up with that line because they couldn't or wouldn't design a good chain. GM has some wimpy timing chains! Take a look at some of their V6's apart, looks like its off my bike!

Belts are lighter though, thats why Ferrari still uses them. Less rotating mass means higher rpms faster.

Most timing belts need to be changed at either 60k, 80k, or 100k miles, and this can cost between $400-$800+. People don't want to pay for this service so car makers are giving the public what it wants.

[pj67coll]

Unless there has been a dramatic improvement in quality by Kia in the last few years I wouldnt touch one with a barge pole. I have the misfortune of owning an 02 Kia Rio I bought new in 2002. It's the worst engineered piece of utter crap imaginable. I like the design of the car. I'll say that right up front, despite disliking small cars in general and if this thing was decently engineered it would be acceptable. But with less than 70K on the clock it's had the following things go wrong...

passenger mirror glass fell out on the highway.
aluminum strips along the roof line blew out in hands free car wash.
trunk will not stay up despite having the agents replace the spring.
endless wheel vibration problems at highway speeds. Never satisfactorily solved despite several changes of tires, alignments by the dealer and various independents.
two recalls for problems with the fuel system.
warped rotors.
engine fan fell off last summer.
transmission replaced.
starter motor replaced.

Thank god I now have the 240D. Despite having 356K miles and a wore out suspension it rides SO much better than the Kia it's ridiculous. The Kia is a piece of plastic and tin junk in comparrison. I'd like to believe they have improved their quality in the last few years. I agree their products often look quite nice. But I'm done falling for a pretty automotive face. It's Mercedes or Bust from now on.

- Peter.

[cmac2012]

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

Supposedly belts are quieter but I have never bought into that. MB uses chains, and they have some super silent gas engines. Nissan has used a chain in their V6 for a long time as well. I think maybe the American makes came up with that line because they couldn't or wouldn't design a good chain. GM has some wimpy timing chains! Take a look at some of their V6's apart, looks like its off my bike!

Belts are lighter though, thats why Ferrari still uses them. Less rotating mass means higher rpms faster.

Most timing belts need to be changed at either 60k, 80k, or 100k miles, and this can cost between $400-$800+. People don't want to pay for this service so car makers are giving the public what it wants.

I've only changed one timing belt -- purt near a virgin.

My BMW needed a new one just about right off when I bought it, and I had happened a couple years before to see the head on a BMW 6 that had busted a belt. (thought balloon of $$ with wings on it) Was not inclined to put that one off.

I did the water pump at the same time as that is the SOP. Halfway big job -- definitely worth the $500 savings though -- took me about 8 hours. Recommended interval is 50K.

I dunno, if the horsepower gain with a belt is negligble, I'd almost go for the chain.

[Austin85]

Auto shows are fun, but unless I'm buying I just end up leaving with a bag full of brouchures. I like the suggestions of the Dodge Magnum & the Toyota Tacomma. If that's made in the US it would be nice for Bot's mom too.

Since none of those run on UCO, I'll stick with my 300D

[MTI]

Cars are clearly much safer, get better gas mileage and in the premium sector, after factoring inflation, are actually getting a bit cheaper.

Corvettes get better mpg than the original VW Beetle.

Occupant survival rates are up over the last 10 years.

Compare the price of a 2.3-16 from 1986 ($40K) to a current AMG C55.

[engatwork]

We actually went out truck shopping today (four door pick up). The nicest, by far was the Honda Ridgeline and it was the priciest by far. Next was the Tacoma and then the Nissan Frontier. I was shocked to see they all had sealed transmissions.

While at the Honda dealer I checked out a new Honda Fit. The guy said they have sold one every day for the past three days. Really neat car for under $15k. I imagine they will sell like hot cakes. I like the idea of the front/rear seats laying down to make somewhat of a bed.

We were unable to decide on a truck.